UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, York University, 18 March 2009 - Chef - #2

[Cherwell]

Didn't her mother say that she could hear the television on in the background when she spoke to Claudia that night?

This would suggest that Claudia was indeed at home at the time of the call, and it would have been very late for her to go out after that, considering how early she needed to be up for work the next morning.

She probably was at home, but there's no reason why she couldn't have been at somebody else's house, watching TV there.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

She probably was at home, but there's no reason why she couldn't have been at somebody else's house, watching TV there.

Wouldn't phone pings have been able to verify that though?

 

[skibaboo]

Wouldn't phone pings have been able to verify that though?

Not if the house was in the same area.

Remember they said phone pings showed she has been frequenting Acomb prior to her disappearance? If she was at someones home in Acomb, then yes. But if she was in Heworth/Tang Hall/Stockton Lane area at someones house the phone would probably still ping off the same tower.

 

[shadowdancer]

But, if she went to stay at another house for the night, why was her toothbrush still in her own house?

 

[Cherwell]

But, if she went to stay at another house for the night, why was her toothbrush still in her own house?

Electric toothbrush, yes? Could be that she kept an ordinary manual toothbrush in her toilet bag for overnight stays, lighter and less bulky. She's already got the hair straighteners taking up space.

 

[shadowdancer]

I suppose its not outside the realms of possibility that Claudia stayed elsewhere that night, but I think its far more likely she was at home.

If she was staying at another person's home, then it was probably a secret lover, because otherwise she would have told her mother who she was with. If Claudia was staying with a lover than why would she be talking to her mum whilst watching TV? I would suggest that Claudia and the man would probably have been having sex, not watching TV.

I think that she planned to meet a man after work the day she disappeared (because she took the straighteners to work), not the day before.

 

[koios]

@FromGermany I forgot to give a link
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/111...e___police_praise_victims__courage___UPDATED/
The first known attack, which was interrupted, was in late Feb 2009 (one report says 29th which is impossible so I think probably Feb 28 or Mar 01?), but no charges were brought, and by mid-Mar investigation had already been dropped.

 

[koios]

"The investigation team still believe Claudia’s silver Samsung D900 mobile phone was deliberately turned off by someone at about 12.10pm on Thursday 19 March 2009."
http://northyorkshire.police.uk/new...arch-1210-claudias-mobile-phone-switched-off/
This is remarkable. In what possible scenario would the phone become turned off at about noon? If for example there was an abduction from the street on the way to work, why would the phone be turned off 6 hours later?

 

[shadowdancer]

"The investigation team still believe Claudia’s silver Samsung D900 mobile phone was deliberately turned off by someone at about 12.10pm on Thursday 19 March 2009."
http://northyorkshire.police.uk/new...arch-1210-claudias-mobile-phone-switched-off/
This is remarkable. In what possible scenario would the phone become turned off at about noon? If for example there was an abduction from the street on the way to work, why would the phone be turned off 6 hours later?

I wonder whether the abductor didn't think to look inside Claudia's bag/coat pocket where the phone was until that time. Before that time, he would have been busy doing whatever sick things he did to Claudia and hiding her body. Dealing with her personal effects would have been what he did after doing those things first.

 

[shadowdancer]

I also wonder how they know it was deliberately turned off as opposed to just running out of battery. Perhaps somebody tried to ring Claudia at this time, and the call was rejected after a few rings and then the caller got directed straight to answer phone when they tried ringing Claudia again straight afterwards, indicating that the phone was deliberately switched off by someone.

It could have been the ringing of the phone that alerted the abductor to its presence.

 

[koios]

I also wonder how they know it was deliberately turned off as opposed to just running out of battery. Perhaps somebody tried to ring Claudia at this time, and the call was rejected after a few rings and then the caller got directed straight to answer phone when they tried ringing Claudia again straight afterwards, indicating that the phone was deliberately switched off by someone.

It could have been the ringing of the phone that alerted the abductor to its presence.

"The investigation team still believe Claudia’s silver Samsung D900 mobile phone was deliberately turned off by someone at about 12.10pm on Thursday 19 March 2009. Claudia used her mobile phone intensively so it is unlikely she would allow it to run out of battery. Also, her mobile phone charger was still in her house. From looking at her phone records, we anticipate that she would have wanted to use that phone during her breaks at work and then when walking back home. So for it to naturally run out of battery would not be the norm."
https://webcache.googleusercontent....arch-1210-claudias-mobile-phone-switched-off/
Is it possible to have an abduction that lasts 6 hours? How else would the phone be turned off reportedly at about noon, about 6 hours after the latest possible abduction time?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

And why can't they work out where her phone pinged from at 12:10 when it was switched off?!

 

[koios]

D900 : Stand-by up to 260 h. Talk time up to 6 h 30 min.
http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_d900-1587.php

 

[shadowdancer]

Maybe they do have an idea where the phone was until noon, and they are not saying for some reason...

 

[koios]

Maybe they do have an idea where the phone was until noon, and they are not saying for some reason...

Yes if they know it went off network at about noon, one would expect they would know which cells it was pinging up until then.

 

[koios]

If CL hypothetically was abducted on the way to work before 6am, and if it's correct that her phone was turned off at about noon, then that's a remarkably long time, about 6 hours.
Maybe the phone being turned off deduction is wrong but let's assume it's correct.
As it happens, since then, there has been a case where an abduction reportedly extended over a period of about five hours, and presumably might have lasted even longer if the victim had not fortunately escaped from the vehicle.
It was coincidentally in the same city, I already posted a link above,

 

[Alyce]

Electric toothbrush, yes? Could be that she kept an ordinary manual toothbrush in her toilet bag for overnight stays, lighter and less bulky. She's already got the hair straighteners taking up space.

Exactly. I used to use an electric toothbrush, but never took it with me when I was travelling. Too much faff, just used an ordinary one.

 

[Alyce]

I also wonder how they know it was deliberately turned off as opposed to just running out of battery. Perhaps somebody tried to ring Claudia at this time, and the call was rejected after a few rings and then the caller got directed straight to answer phone when they tried ringing Claudia again straight afterwards, indicating that the phone was deliberately switched off by someone.

It could have been the ringing of the phone that alerted the abductor to its presence.

Makes sense to me. If Claudia was murdered in the early hours of that morning ( and we dont know whether she was or not ) - say, for instance, by the person she had just spent the night with - then he ( or she ) would be worrying about how to dispose of her body.
So, perhaps he did take her bag, along with her body, but in his haste, did not realise that her phone was not in her bag. Claudia may have left it at the side of the bed and it might not have been visible ( lets say it fell off the bedside table and he didnt see it ).
So after disposing of her body, he then returns to his home and is only alerted to the presence of the phone when it rings or beeps - and at that point, he turns it off.

 

[DakotaMayi]

I have always thought she went somewhere the night before.
Bed being made says to me that Claudia did not sleep there that night.
Dishes in the sink, could have been a supper snack ( I sometimes have toast or cereal for supper, so the type of dishes would not necessarily indicate a morning meal ).
Cleaning her teeth, downstairs, just before she went out, also fits.
And taking her hair straighteners, to be able to do her hair in the morning, before she left wherever she was staying to go to work.

I agree with you here. I always think it must have been the early hours on her way to work but then the straighteners take me back to believing she was staying somewhere other than home that night.

 

[koios]

Is there anyone willing to look up a public domain (birth/marriage/death) record for me via PM please?
Edited: Someone is kindly doing this already.