UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, York University, 18 March 2009 - Chef - #2

[shadowdancer]

I think she may have been planning to go on somewhere after work, possibly a meal or night out and she wanted to be able to style her hair in the loos after her shift ended. This would make sense given that her hair may get frizzed up by the steam in the kitchens.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I think a big difficulty with this case is it's not known whether CL disappeared before arriving home in the evening, or while at home that night, or on the way to work early next morning.
Rucksack and chef's uniform were reportedly missing, which probably rules out disappearing while at home during the night?
A mystery is the reportedly missing hair straighteners, any opinions on why they were missing?

Strangled with them would be my best guess. Failing that she took them to work for whatever reason.

I think she disappeared early hours of the morning, and probably after she left the house otherwise there'd be more evidence I reckon.

 

[koios]

I think she may have been planning to go on somewhere after work, possibly a meal or night out and she wanted to be able to style her hair in the loos after her shift ended. This would make sense given that her hair may get frizzed up by the steam in the kitchens.

Good thinking shadowdancer, and I just found this
"In relation to Claudia’s hair straighteners, helpful information was passed to the investigation team which established that she may, on some occasions, have taken them to work "
https://northyorkshire.police.uk/ne...left-for-work-but-hair-straighteners-missing/

 

[koios]

Strangled with them would be my best guess. Failing that she took them to work for whatever reason.

I think she disappeared early hours of the morning, and probably after she left the house otherwise there'd be more evidence I reckon.

The theory that she disappeared on the way to work in the early morning is supported by this:
"the bed had been made and there are what appear to be breakfast dishes in the kitchen sink. Claudia’s electric tooth brush was also left on the kitchen draining board. These details support the theory that she left for work on the morning of Thursday"
https://northyorkshire.police.uk/ne...left-for-work-but-hair-straighteners-missing/

 

[koios]

It's difficult to find cases of abduction (or attempted abduction) by vehicle while walking along the street between 5am and 6am.
So far I found only one case http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woman-forced-car-knife-wielding-8114666
That was reportedly between 5.10am and 5.20am.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/393510/Sex-beast-cabbie-linked-murder-of-three-girls

He was also a huge canal boat fan - and would often travel to use the North of England canal system.



http://www.drifters.co.uk/canal-map-northern-england.html
-.-.-.-

"The divorced father of three had access to 80 taxi cabs and would drive fares across the UK.

(same link Daily Star)

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ous-predator-who-could-have-more-victims.html

Declared bankrupt the 47-year-old had only been working for Five Star private hire in Swindon for a couple of weeks before he was arrested.

Not new to the taxi scene, he was known by the other local drivers for the fact that he always used to wear a suit to work.


Though I don't know whether it was meant for working only for Five Star private hire or all his time as a taxi driver (wearing a suit).
In any way it seems remarkable, IMO.

 

[Alyce]

The theory that she disappeared on the way to work in the early morning is supported by this:
"the bed had been made and there are what appear to be breakfast dishes in the kitchen sink. Claudia’s electric tooth brush was also left on the kitchen draining board. These details support the theory that she left for work on the morning of Thursday"
https://northyorkshire.police.uk/ne...left-for-work-but-hair-straighteners-missing/

I have always thought she went somewhere the night before.
Bed being made says to me that Claudia did not sleep there that night.
Dishes in the sink, could have been a supper snack ( I sometimes have toast or cereal for supper, so the type of dishes would not necessarily indicate a morning meal ).
Cleaning her teeth, downstairs, just before she went out, also fits.
And taking her hair straighteners, to be able to do her hair in the morning, before she left wherever she was staying to go to work.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I have always thought she went somewhere the night before.
Bed being made says to me that Claudia did not sleep there that night.
Dishes in the sink, could have been a supper snack ( I sometimes have toast or cereal for supper, so the type of dishes would not necessarily indicate a morning meal ).
Cleaning her teeth, downstairs, just before she went out, also fits.
And taking her hair straighteners, to be able to do her hair in the morning, before she left wherever she was staying to go to work.

Had she at least told her mother what her actual plans were!! lease:

 

[shadowdancer]

Didn't her mother say that she could hear the television on in the background when she spoke to Claudia that night?

This would suggest that Claudia was indeed at home at the time of the call, and it would have been very late for her to go out after that, considering how early she needed to be up for work the next morning.

 

[dotr]

I have always thought she went somewhere the night before.
Bed being made says to me that Claudia did not sleep there that night.
Dishes in the sink, could have been a supper snack ( I sometimes have toast or cereal for supper, so the type of dishes would not necessarily indicate a morning meal ).
Cleaning her teeth, downstairs, just before she went out, also fits.
And taking her hair straighteners, to be able to do her hair in the morning, before she left wherever she was staying to go to work.

Not that it is particularly likely, but do we really know that it was Claudia in her home that night, or could it have been somebody else staying there?
Possibly there with her, or even waiting there for Claudia to return home, either with her approval, or not.
speculation, imo.

 

[koios]

Didn't her mother say that she could hear the television on in the background when she spoke to Claudia that night?

This would suggest that Claudia was indeed at home at the time of the call, and it would have been very late for her to go out after that, considering how early she needed to be up for work the next morning.

That is interesting shadowdancer about a tv, I will try to find the source for that.
This is such a difficult case, I think it would make it less difficult if we knew whether the disappearance happened evening or morning.
The basics are to establish the time and the place - at the moment I think we know neither.

 

[koios]

Following up on shadowdancer's mention of TV, I found this
"Mrs Lawrence recalled how she had spoken to Claudia twice within a few hours the day before she disappeared. They had spoken on the phone for about 20 minutes in the afternoon in what she described as a 'girl talk' conversation, and then again in the evening when she needed information about a coach company. 'I remember we were both watching the same television programme – Location, Location, Location' said Mrs Lawrence. 'She was perfectly all right that night'. It was the following morning that Claudia disappeared."
http://www.gazetteherald.co.uk/news...isappeared__mother_Joan_reflects_on_her_loss/
To confirm whether these two phonecalls were on the18th, it might be useful to know what day (and time) the 'Location' program was broadcast?

 

[koios]

I've been looking at other cases, and here is one I found. Probably nothing to do with the CL case however in late Feb 2009 (possibly as little as 19 days before CL disappeared) a young woman was assaulted late at night in a shop doorway near a nightclub in York town centre. Luckily some bouncers and members of public heard her scream and came to her rescue. A man was arrested. But less than two weeks later the victim was informed that no action was being taken due to insufficient evidence. Fast forward to 2014, the same man was arrested for three later offences, one of which was abduction from street into a white van of a woman who was on way home from work at about 3.50am.

 

[Alyce]

Had she at least told her mother what her actual plans were!! lease:

No I dont believe Claudia said anything to her mother to indicate that she would be going out later. But then again, from all we have been told, I dont think Claudia told her parents every detail of her life - and I do find that perfectly normal, I was just the same with my parents.

 

[Alyce]

Didn't her mother say that she could hear the television on in the background when she spoke to Claudia that night?

This would suggest that Claudia was indeed at home at the time of the call, and it would have been very late for her to go out after that, considering how early she needed to be up for work the next morning.

I think she was at home, at the time of the call - which, if I remember correctly, was about 8.30 - 9pm ? She could then have been picked up by someone and gone to stay overnight at their house....or, she could have walked to another house, with the intention of staying with that person. Either way, she could still have been planning an early night ( with someone else ) rather than a late night out at the pub or similar.



ETA I remember the bit about her mother saying she could hear tv on in the background, and in fact didnt they speak about tv programmes, what they were watching at that time, or rather what Claudia was watching.

Just editing again, as I see Koios has given the exact detail ( note to self, read all posts before replying ! ) and the fact that they were both watching Location Location Location at the time..... I think that's the kind of programme that is usually on around 8 or 9pm

 

[Alyce]

Not that it is particularly likely, but do we really know that it was Claudia in her home that night, or could it have been somebody else staying there?
Possibly there with her, or even waiting there for Claudia to return home, either with her approval, or not.
speculation, imo.

Very good point. Perfectly possible that someone was staying with her that night, but Claudia did not mention this to her mother.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Not that it is particularly likely, but do we really know that it was Claudia in her home that night, or could it have been somebody else staying there?
Possibly there with her, or even waiting there for Claudia to return home, either with her approval, or not.
speculation, imo.

I've often thought someone might have stayed with her that night, but I would think they tested items in her house - bed sheets, towels, mugs etc - for signs of A N Other person. If they found anything I think by now they'd have said "we know someone slept there".

Actually, hang on, they HAVE said they know people were in the house who haven't come forward, but not necessarily over night or that particular night. They will have tested everyone they've arrested plus probably others from the Nags etc, so who else's DNA was found that they haven't connected yet?

Did a complete stranger did snatch her off the street?
Did someone she knows offer her a lift?
Did someone stay over and drive her to work?
Did something happen overnight?

I think, given the "arguing couple" scenario, it seems most likely that there was a love interest, whether he stayed the night or not I think it could well have been them arguing and she got into the car that morning. How busy is that road at 6am? Could he have bundled her into a car without anyone passing by?

Occams Razor and all that, makes sense there is someone who's presence in the house has been proven yet he has not come forward. He did it.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I've been looking at other cases, and here is one I found. Probably nothing to do with the CL case however in late Feb 2009 (possibly as little as 19 days before CL disappeared) a young woman was assaulted late at night in a shop doorway near a nightclub in York town centre. Luckily some bouncers and members of public heard her scream and came to her rescue. A man was arrested. But less than two weeks later the victim was informed that no action was being taken due to insufficient evidence. Fast forward to 2014, the same man was arrested for three later offences, one of which was abduction from street into a white van of a woman who was on way home from work at about 3.50am.

!!!!!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Not that it is particularly likely, but do we really know that it was Claudia in her home that night, or could it have been somebody else staying there?
Possibly there with her, or even waiting there for Claudia to return home, either with her approval, or not.
speculation, imo.

Do you perhaps think CL wasn't at home herself but secretly someone who she knew and who had a key and vainly waited for her? Then in the morning when it was time for Claudia to go in the direction of her workplace -from where ever- the person maybe met her at the bridge (left-hand smoker) and they had a disputation over her night out?

Btw: Did this person proceed a coloration of his hair in the meantime when Claudia wasn't present (IF she wasn't present)?? :thinking: