UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #4

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Twittens said:
Lewis Power, KC.

Church Court Chambers | Lewis Power KC
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She lost that representation allegedly as the trust fund wouldn't pay the fee. It was subsequently reported that she's represented by Mr Philip Sapsford on Legal Aid. One assumes that is still the case, however, it may not be.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Constance Marten lover Mark Gordon demands to appear in dock with her

Mark Gordon, 48, and Constance Marten, 35, sparked a huge UK police hunt after they went on the run with their new born baby in January this year.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
Observe_dont_Absorb said:
She lost that representation allegedly as the trust fund wouldn't pay the fee. It was subsequently reported that she's represented by Mr Philip Sapsford on Legal Aid. One assumes that is still the case, however, it may not be.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Constance Marten lover Mark Gordon demands to appear in dock with her

Mark Gordon, 48, and Constance Marten, 35, sparked a huge UK police hunt after they went on the run with their new born baby in January this year.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
Click to expand...
Apologies, my bad. I assumed that Lewis Power was the new barrister not the old, since his chambers is still including the "high profile" instruction in its PR! (my link above)
 
Observe_dont_Absorb said:
I do agree with you but at the same time it was the testimony of one of the drivers that CM was not appropriately dressed for the temperature and was shaking with cold. So, going by that, she was not taking care of herself in that moment, although, she did 'take care' of it by calling a cab and asking for the heating to be turned on - something that a few days old baby cannot do for itself and therefore she should be held accountable for failing to attend to the vital basic human needs of a vulnerable new born baby IMO!

JMO MOO
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It sounds like this was after they fled the burning Peugeot, which would explain why CM wasn't dressed for the weather as she hadn't expected to be out in the elements.
Thinking about it, this could add weight to the baby being born in the car theory, maybe they hadn't had time to dress her yet when the car caught fire? But then CM would have been bleeding which I would assume she also wouldn't have had time to attend to with a pad, so I've probably just talked myself out of that idea o_O

I wonder if we will ever know when she was born and how long she survived :(
 
Earthwindfire said:
I also wonder on the cunning/manipulation front, if she felt saying she was a traveller might give her certain protections. It is accepted that travellers tend to do things a bit differently. Perhaps she felt she might be left alone more.
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And, if we're being honest, the individuals in authority are often a bit scared of travellers. You're not going to find a single crewed police car just going for a casual drive around the local travellers site, nor a social worker going out alone.

They seem to get away with things the rest of us wouldn't - like pulling their children out of school at 11 to 'homeschool' despite the parents being illiterate themselves, and (locally to me) tying horses up to graze on roadsides and roundabouts. The RSPCA would be after me if I did the same.

Observe_dont_Absorb said:
People who are brought up with servants and staff may well never have had to be responsible for anything such as 'picking up' after themselves or making their own meal.
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The days of Downton Abbey levels of staffing are long gone I'm afraid.

That said, a lot of kids leave home lacking basic lifeskills, and have a rude awakening when it comes to things like laundry and basic cooking.

Though she went to Nigeria in 2007, if she hadn't learned before, CM would have had to have learned, quite quickly, when she went to the University of Leeds (2008 I believe?) and lived in halls / subsequent student houses. I was in halls with a boy who had been to Eton. He was slumming it - and learning to cook and do his own laundry - like the rest of us. By all accounts she seemed to be functioning at an age appropriate level until 2016.

I'm not sure if she boarded at school - she did go to a school that offered day and boarding (St Mary's Shaftesbury) but it was only 26 minutes drive from home (Crichel Down) so she was quite possibly a day girl (not that that indicates much about her life skills!)
 
From this afternoon's evidence (source: Argus) (extracts) (BBM):

"2:27pm
A statement from Taylor Roy from the Premier Inn in Harwich is being read out.
She said a woman came into the hotel "quite distressed" at about 3am.

2:30pm
The woman wanted to pay for a room with cash, Ms Roy said.
The hotel needs to check ID if a customer is paying in cash.
The woman did not have ID.
She gave her and her partner's surname as Thomas.
"We don't have it, we don't have it," said the woman.
"She looked like she was going to cry," said Ms Roy.
Ms Roy decided to give them a room.

2:43pm
A statement from Ryan Dennis is now being read. He is a night receptionist at the Premier Inn and booked the woman in.
He said the woman asked for a room for two.
"At no point was a child or baby mentioned," he said.
When he asked for a name for the booking the woman said "what?"
"The female then looked like she had to think about it," said Mr Dennis.
He said when he told them he couldn't book them in without ID the woman said: "Please, we haven't got anywhere to go."

2:46pm
Mr Dennis said the couple "seemed very isolated and wanted to keep themselves to themselves".
"The did not look in the best shape," said Mr Dennis.
"They looked exhausted."

2:57pm
Ms Robson said when she entered the room there was a "really bad smell".
"Like rotting flesh," she said.
"I couldn't stay in the room for long."

2:58pm
Mr Femi-Ola asks: "She wasn't rude at all?"
"No," said Ms Robson.
"Pushy?" said Mr Femi-Ola.
"No," said Ms Robson.

2:59pm
We are hearing how the media attention regarding the couple increased. Their names and photographs were published as the couple were at the Premier Inn.

3:12pm
A statement from Lorraine Marshall, a security guard at Harwich International Port, is now being read.
She had an interaction with the couple, who were heading towards the train station.
Ms Marshall told them there were no trains due to strike action.
"I heard a baby crying," she said.
"And I realised there was a baby wrapped in a shawl.
"No part of the baby was visible.""

Ryan Dennis the Premier Inn receptionist may have watched too many police shows: "The female", he says. Who talks like that?

One can see the case for no reporting on witness evidence during a trial such as this. I have no idea whether this applies to Mr Dennis, but for some people it's a really big thing when they or what they've said appears in the media, or they think it will.

It doesn't seem as if communications are that good at that Premier Inn if first it's fine with no ID...and then at actual check-in it's a matter of I can't book you in without ID...and then they get booked in without ID.

What to make of the rotten smell? The court (counsel for either side, or if necessary the judge) should try to establish from all witnesses who came into contact with them whether they smelled anything. Not by leading of course, but "Was there anything else distinctive about this man or this woman, or the room after they'd left, that you noticed and you haven't described yet?" The smell "like rotten flesh" couldn't have been a dead Victoria if Ms Marshall heard her cry later.

This is all speculation of course, and many things could have happened. Ms Robson couldn't stay in that room for long, but what about the maid who cleaned it? Did the police take a statement from her?

If there's a second half, I hope the defendants give evidence so they can be asked about the alleged smell that has been attested to.

Edit: so CM is still not in court. She must be having one heck of a conference with her legal team. (Speculation.)
 
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JTT said:
(snipped)

What to make of the rotten smell? The court (counsel for either side, or if necessary the judge) should try to establish from all witnesses who came into contact with them whether they smelled anything. Not by leading of course, but "Was there anything else distinctive about Mr Gordon or Ms Marten that you noticed and you haven't described yet?" The smell "like rotten flesh" couldn't have been a dead Victoria if Ms Marshall heard her cry later.
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Lack of personal hygiene / dirty clothes / infection (the adults) - - namely, one was freshly postpartum... (MOO)
 
The receptionist explained they had to check ID for anyone paying in cash.

'She said 'we don't have it,

'I suggested she could just stay in reception and she looked at me as if it was below her




www.dailymail.co.uk

Constance Marten used trust fund payments for taxi ride, court hears

Constance Marten, 36, and Mark Gordon, 49, are accused at the Old Bailey of killing their newborn baby Victoria by taking her on the run to prevent her being taken away by social services.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
Marten was not in court but the jury was told a link was available for her to join.





www.dailymail.co.uk

Constance Marten used trust fund payments for taxi ride, court hears

Constance Marten, 36, and Mark Gordon, 49, are accused at the Old Bailey of killing their newborn baby Victoria by taking her on the run to prevent her being taken away by social services.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
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Might MG have been suffering from gangrene in his feet?

That might explain the horrible smell attested to while it seems Victoria was still alive, and also the plastic bags on his feet.

^ Complete and utter speculation.
 
Observe_dont_Absorb said:
What happened to Mr Sapsford? I'm confused.
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I think both of them have changed their legal representatives more than once.

At the moment (as far as I can tell!) Constance is being represented by John Ryder (KC) & Tom Godfrey (junior barrister)

Mark Gordon is represented by John Femi-Ola (KC) & Ms Neena Crission (junior barrister)
 
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