UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #5

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ShadowPuppet said:
If they’d thought enough to bring a coat in the car, it’s more bizarre that they didn’t replace it somehow.

I thought that was bizarre too. My only other thought is that they hadn’t bought the clothes in the first place? Could have been a previous baby that they still had,
perhaps, and they just took what they already owned with them intending to use it? Or maybe they’d just really lost their grip on reality or priorities by that point after the car fire?

JMO but I really feel like one or both could have MH problems that the other has become caught up in. Does anyone remember the horribly sad Sophie Lionnet case? Where the couple who murdered her fed off the bizarre delusion thinking of one of them and killed her because she would not confess to crimes they’d imagined. (The killers were sent down for murder and seen as fit to stand trial.) I feel like theres a similar delusional world for CM and MG that exists only for them and that’s caused them to really have no idea how to connect with reality at all. I imagine that would easily grind away at someone’s ability to truly empathise to the point where just because they were cold or hungry, they couldn’t necessarily imagine anyone, even their own daughter was. They could only really think of whatever delusions their life was centred around. (Only my opinion and musings though.)
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I noticed the snowsuit still has the tags on in the DM photo.

Also - over 30 phones?! I get having more than 1 burner, but 30? Sounds seriously paranoid. I wonder who they are contacting
 
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Oh also on the buggy, I’m a Londoner, but don’t live there now and we had lots of taxi drivers refuse both buggies and car seats. One driver told me it might make his car dirty (it was an urban buggy with small wheels that weren’t muddy and could be collapsed with wheels facing upwards). Just in case that’s useful info.

Black cabs have never refused, but are often hard to find.

A lot of the non-black cab drivers don’t know the area well, so a specific location or address can help them find somewhere in Sat Nav (our experience was they often ask for directions). I imagine that’s similar in other cities too and perhaps a possibility why some locations by CM and MG could have been simplified to be dropped at a specific address near an area they wanted or an easy to find location like a pub. JMO, not certain but it could be a possibility.
 
Twittens said:
Oh, come on, no way. To export a cat they need to be microchipped, vaccinated against rabies by an approved vet, then 30 days later you have to get a blood test to prove antibodies done by an approved laboratory, then you have to wait 3 months before travelling.

For sure they may just have planned to travel without thinking/caring about all of that, but they risked it being impounded and destroyed. Though maybe they didn't think/care about that either. (Speculation.)

Pet Travel: Other
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I don't think the cat is relevant to the possible ferry plan.

It seems they had a plan to leave wherever they were living and disappear purely to avoid social services finding out about another baby, so they packed up their lives and left. But then their car broke down, minor setback, buy a new car and they're on their way, except the car catches fire and suddenly there's people, and attention and obviously the police and fire brigade are going to attend a vehicle fire and thus, panic.
They think on their feet and literally do a runner, probably don't realise until it's too late that she left her identifying documents in the car, and hope the fore burns quickly enough to get rid of any evidence of a baby.

No time to take the cat so they make sure it's safely out of the car and off they go.

So yeah, I think they just planned to move, with their secret baby and their cat, but unfortunately for everyone, except maybe the cat because at least that appears to be safe and well, that plan literally went up in flames.
 
Nikynoo said:
Me too! I am starting to think that the prosecution are really struggling to find good witnesses, though there have been some nuggets of useful information. I’m still struggling with the cat, totally left field.
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I've been wondering this too. There are quite a few witnesses though, all covering similar ground. I suppose most people who saw them or reported them just had a passing glimpse or brief interaction. Hard to glean much from that. A couple of the taxi drivers have come across as pretty solid.

And yes, the cat revelation is still sinking in for me too.
 
Rolypolyoly said:
I don't think the cat is relevant to the possible ferry plan.

It seems they had a plan to leave wherever they were living and disappear purely to avoid social services finding out about another baby, so they packed up their lives and left. But then their car broke down, minor setback, buy a new car and they're on their way, except the car catches fire and suddenly there's people, and attention and obviously the police and fire brigade are going to attend a vehicle fire and thus, panic.
They think on their feet and literally do a runner, probably don't realise until it's too late that she left her identifying documents in the car, and hope the fore burns quickly enough to get rid of any evidence of a baby.

No time to take the cat so they make sure it's safely out of the car and off they go.

So yeah, I think they just planned to move, with their secret baby and their cat, but unfortunately for everyone, except maybe the cat because at least that appears to be safe and well, that plan literally went up in flames.
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I wonder if they had taken a very large proportion of her trust fund payment out of the bank and lost a large amount of cash in the fire.
 
Willowy said:
I've been wondering this too. There are quite a few witnesses though, all covering similar ground. I suppose most people who saw them or reported them just had a passing glimpse or brief interaction. Hard to glean much from that. A couple of the taxi drivers have come across as pretty solid.

And yes, the cat revelation is still sinking in for me too.
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It must be very hard to admit that you had an 'interaction' - however fleeting - with this couple whose baby later died. So many feelings of regret and 'what if' and hindsight would come into play. That one witness must be haunted by the sound of the baby screaming, knowing now how much she was probably suffering at that time.
 
www.dailymail.co.uk

Constance Marten with 'dead' baby in sling eight days before arrest

Constance Marten, 36, (pictured) was allegedly seen in a Brighton park with her lifeless baby in a sling eight days she was caught by police.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

Sorry to bang on about the taxis, but in this article published today, the DM now specifies that it was a black cab they got into without the buggy.

Course that doesn't mean they didn't dump it and then find a black cab after all. It's not like luck was exactly on their side.
 
rightsaidfred said:
Rigor mortis is only temporary, and passes within about 24 hours (ish!)



Napier Marten, CM's father, said in Jan 2023 that they had known of his conviction "for some time" and they were concerned about it

‘Beyond painful’: Dad of runaway aristocrat pleads with daughter to turn herself in

He later referred to her time in the SCOAN cult as being very damaging

“The stories of the abuse meted out by Joshua are shocking and heart-rending. I sincerely hope the police can now investigate potential links between any institution involved in making Constance and others suffer at the hands of the phoney prophet in his Lagos Synagogue.

“These experiences appear to have been a trigger in so much of what has happened to harm Constance in recent years, setting up a pattern of behaviour exposing her to easy manipulation. I cannot begin to comprehend the trauma to which Constance and others have been subjected. My heart goes out to her and them.

“I am grateful to the police for their continued efforts to locate Constance and her baby, and for following all avenues of inquiry. The only urgency is to know she and the baby are safe.I have been so touched by the hundreds of messages of support and want to thank everyone for their great kindness.”

www.independent.co.uk

Constance Marten’s father’s statement in full as he calls for probe into cult abuse

‘The stories of the abuse are shocking and heart-rending’
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
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Thank you for this. CM definitely has a vulnerability about her
 
rightsaidfred said:
Back in the days when mobiles were just for talking and texting, I'd have agreed with you.

But now we use them to navigate, check ferry times, read the news, book an Airbnb...
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But if they were true burner phones they would be cheap phones that are unlikely to be a smart phone, so they wouldn’t have access to all those internet type features and apps. They were either extremely paranoid by having that many phones or really trying to be savvy and remain untraceable. However, if they didn’t discard and kept all 30 phones (some can be traced possibly) then they weren’t thinking clearly. It’s all very odd
 
Kelly C said:
But if they were true burner phones they would be cheap phones that are unlikely to be a smart phone, so they wouldn’t have access to all those internet type features and apps. They were either extremely paranoid by having that many phones or really trying to be savvy and remain untraceable. However, if they didn’t discard and kept all 30 phones (some can be traced possibly) then they weren’t thinking clearly. It’s all very odd
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A quick look at Argos reveals that while you can get the cheapest 'dumb' phone for £10, if you spend £34 you'll get a very basic smartphone. For a couple able and willing to spend hundreds on a single taxi ride, this doesn't seem out of the question. https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9483068?clickSR=slp:term:smartphone:15:382:1
 
rightsaidfred said:
Back in the days when mobiles were just for talking and texting, I'd have agreed with you.

But now we use them to navigate, check ferry times, read the news, book an Airbnb...
Click to expand...

You can do all that on one phone though and it's simple enough to buy a pay as you go sim and be completely untraceable. It's not like they were running some criminal empire and burning or swallowing sim cards after a single use.

30 phones is just bizarre for two people who just seemed to be moving from one place to another to hide from social services. Way past overkill!
 
Lucy6226 said:
I'm also thinking that if they were unable to charge them, they simply got a new one
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I don't think they were intending to sleep rough at the point when they bought them tbh. They were in the same flat for two years until Sept 2022 and then they were moving around airbnbs, a few hotels, and it was only when the car fire happened that the *advertiser censored* well and truly hit the fan.
 
I've been looking at the handwritten notes (latest DM article). Looks like top one says (IMO):

Her parents and brother's names

"Other (misguided?) family members"

At bottom:
"Believe the narrative of my parents, that I'm a 'bad girl' with a bad man"

The note under it top right looks like a phone number.

Edited to add: Picture 28 of a bag with an Oyster card in has a letter with her name and address. Looks like a parking fine from Croydon Council in 2022.

A lot of evidence for the police to use

All my opinion
 
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