UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #5

[Kye Zeeb]

"I was elated to be with my and baby and with Mark parenting.
A large amount of cognitive dissonance going on here in my opinion! She is talking as though what they were doing / how they were living with a newborn is normal!

(SBM for focus)
Co-parenting with MG may have been (at least as perceived by CM) what SS primarily objected to. JMO.

 

[JennieM]

[…]

She said she had been "extremely tired" and had fallen asleep while she was in a tent hugging her baby - who was in her jacket.

"She wasn't moving when I woke up," she recalled.

During the police interview Ms Marten wept while describing the moment she realised their baby was not breathing.

She told officers the pair tried to resuscitate baby Victoria: "I tried to breathe in her mouth and pump her chest."

She said there was no response: "So I wrapped her in a scarf and cradled her for a few minutes. I didn't know what to do."

Asked by a detective whether they went to get help, Ms Marten replied: "No because she was definitely not alive.

"I mean she wasn't alive, so who's going to help?"

When asked how Mr Gordon felt after their baby had died, Ms Marten said: "Well, I'm not him so I can't tell you how he was feeling".

The detective then asked: "Well, what did he say to you?"

She replied: "Well, he was distraught of course".

"Tell me about that," asked the detective.

Ms Marten replied: "You'll have to ask him, I mean, that's his remit, isn't it?"

She told detectives the couple were "very distraught" and "a bit traumatised by the whole thing".

During the interview Ms Marten recalled seeing a copy of the Metro newspaper while they were waiting for a bus in Brighton some days afterwards.

"It just said, I think it was my father coming forward saying we really need to come forward with the baby".

Detectives also asked her how she was feeling following the birth of their daughter.
"I was feeling fine. I was elated to be with her actually. To be with one of my children. With Mark, together and parenting.

"It was a really nice Christmas period. I was very happy actually. Until all the media attention. That's my experience".

[…]

Constance Marten says Mark Gordon told her to say baby died of cot death

She also told detectives she debated handing herself in two weeks after their baby died.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Henrymoggington]

According to CM they have been married for 7 years. Wearing my defence hat: she should have done a Princess Diana (Martin Bashir interview) and kept referring to MG as "my husband".

Recap: Constance Marten describes Mark Gordon as 'her soulmate'

Live updates from the Old Bailey as the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon continues.

www.theargus.co.uk

"Marten said her and Gordon married in Peru seven years ago but that the marriage was not recognised in England.

She said they met "eight or nine years ago" in a shop in London and went for coffee.

"It went from there," she said.

"He's my soulmate.""

<modsnip>

if he was still on some kind of licence for a US sentence, IMO I can’t see how he could even travel overseas, or at least, without notifying the authorities in advance.. which you’d think may have come out in reporting. Just My Opinion of course, and I could be wrong.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

(From the Argus live reporting)

Someone needs to tell CM to get her facts straight; if they were legally married in Peru then they're legally married here

Getting married abroad

Requirements, paperwork and processes for weddings and civil partnerships overseas - registration, restrictions, fees

www.gov.uk

Further details, specifically for Peru
Marriage in Peru - Getting married abroad - GOV.UK

Either she's lying, or it wasn't a legal ceremony in either Peru or the UK - just a handfasting or something equally non-legal.

Peru, really? There are some organizational skills and planning required to get to Peru, and have the documents needed for overseas marriage. Doubtful this is something either of them could do, without a Cornetto.

 

[Alyce]

From Jennie's link above ..... post 962



Well, I'm not him so I can't tell you how he was feeling".

She told detectives the couple were "very distraught" and "a bit traumatised by the whole thing".

 

[DSleuth]

Cremation was considered wasn't it. Hence the petrol purchased.

I’m really not convinced that is true and am finding it hard to believe what she says. IMO she is tailoring her story/version of events to make it fit the facts .

The petrol could have been for them to make a fire to keep warm. I’m sceptical that they were planning a cremation- it could be, but just because she says that’s what the petrol was purchased for that doesn’t make it true.

 

[Obergine]

Married by a shamen in an ayahuasca ceremony. I'd put a bet on it

 

[Smccat]

I’m really not convinced that is true and am finding it hard to believe what she says. IMO she is tailoring her story/version of events to make it fit the facts .

The petrol could have been for them to make a fire to keep warm. I’m sceptical that they were planning a cremation- it could be, but just because she says that’s what the petrol was purchased for that doesn’t make it true.

For now though, what she has said is all we have. What we each believe to be true or otherwise is all conjecture.

 

[Leannaf2721]

I’m really not convinced that is true and am finding it hard to believe what she says. IMO she is tailoring her story/version of events to make it fit the facts .

The petrol could have been for them to make a fire to keep warm. I’m sceptical that they were planning a cremation- it could be, but just because she says that’s what the petrol was purchased for that doesn’t make it true.

They bought the petrol on the 12th Jan didn’t they if they were going to use it for a fire to keep warm I’m sure they would have done at some point by the time of their arrest.

 

[Zuleika]

(From the Argus live reporting)

Someone needs to tell CM to get her facts straight; if they were legally married in Peru then they're legally married here

Getting married abroad

Requirements, paperwork and processes for weddings and civil partnerships overseas - registration, restrictions, fees

www.gov.uk

Further details, specifically for Peru
Marriage in Peru - Getting married abroad - .UK

Either she's lying, or it wasn't a legal ceremony in either Peru or the UK - just a handfasting or something equally non-legal.

Would MG as a registered sex offender in the UK be able to leave the UK to go to Peru ?

 

[InstantCoffee]

Married by a shamen in an ayahuasca ceremony. I'd put a bet on it

That was my first thought as well! But then it would be a big departure from the 'Christian' beliefs she held / 'Christian' cult involvement she has in her past and the fact that there was a Bible found in the burnt out car. But... maybe after the cult she was looking to fill 'The God Shaped Hole' another way?

 

[DianaWW]

Just when you think things can’t get any weirder…

‘She complained about her children being taken away after she accidentally "fell from a window".’

Constance Marten's partner advised fugitive aristocrat to say baby was victim of 'cot death', court told

Fugitive aristocrat Constance Marten was advised by her partner to say their baby was the victim of "cot death", after the child died in her arms as she slept, a court has heard.

www.lbc.co.uk

 

[Doughy]

Would MG as a registered sex offender in the UK be able to leave the UK to go to Peru ?

I thought he didn't have a passport? Or did he have one 7 years back but it ran out.

 

[Nikynoo]

Or she didn't want the marriage to come to the attention of whoever controlled the trust fund purse strings.

Depending on the type of trust, it may not matter. In these types of trusts the beneficiaries are usually the blood line and marriage should not make a difference.

 

[Nikynoo]

(From the Argus live reporting)

Someone needs to tell CM to get her facts straight; if they were legally married in Peru then they're legally married here

Getting married abroad

Requirements, paperwork and processes for weddings and civil partnerships overseas - registration, restrictions, fees

www.gov.uk

Further details, specifically for Peru
Marriage in Peru - Getting married abroad - GOV.UK

Either she's lying, or it wasn't a legal ceremony in either Peru or the UK - just a handfasting or something equally non-legal.

It’s not exactly easy though is it? There are certain steps you need to do and if you don’t do them, then the marriage isn’t recognised.

From the link above.

What you need to do
You’ll be asked to provide an affirmation or affidavit document to prove you’re allowed to marry.

Make an appointment at the British embassy or consulate in Peru to swear an affirmation or affidavit that you’re free to marry. You’ll need to bring your passport and pay a fee.

Make an appointment at the embassy in Lima.

You’ll need to complete an affidavit form to prove you’re allowed to marry.

You can download and fill in (but not sign) the form in advance. You must take the form with you to your appointment.

Legalisation and translation
You’ll need to get your affirmation or affidavit translated into the local language and ‘legalised’ (certified as genuine) by the local authorities - the embassy or consulate should be able to give you advice.

 

[Nikynoo]

Would MG as a registered sex offender in the UK be able to leave the UK to go to Peru ?

Yes. He has to inform which country try he is going to and if the police think that MG would pose a risk, they will notify the country being visited. Source, posted by poster up thread.

 

[Nikynoo]

DBM double post.

 

[porkypies]

In Britain there are a few hundred convictions each year for murder. The average annual number for which there's no body is probably far less than 1. Perhaps in one case every 10 years or something like that. It is extremely rare. I don't know whether there is a record available.

DBM

CM in police interview as reported by Argus:

"They made attempts to dig a grave for Victoria but they were 'too weak'."

Was was her body mass index at time of arrest?

What digging tools did they use?

Did they consider any other means of send-off?

Recap: Constance Marten describes Mark Gordon as 'her soulmate'

Live updates from the Old Bailey as the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon continues.

www.theargus.co.uk

1) Body mass index is not a measure of strength or weakness.
2) They had an allotment shed at their disposal surrounded by lots more allotment sheds - I would expect lots of tools to be had there.
3) Yes, they considered setting fire to the baby's body using petrol - as stated by CM herself.

 

[Nikynoo]

if he was still on some kind of licence for a US sentence, IMO I can’t see how he could even travel overseas, or at least, without notifying the authorities in advance.. which you’d think may have come out in reporting. Just My Opinion of course, and I could be wrong.

Information can be found here Advice for people on the Sex Offender Register and here Travelling Abroad and Within the UK While on Licence

It also states if of no fixed abode, there is a requirement to notify weekly.

 

[porkypies]

I'm only reading the Argus too. If you put yourself in a defence lawyer's shoes, would you think "She really messed up those interviews, and saying 'no comment' would have been better"?

Clients who aren't professional criminals (who usually go no comment to everything) mess up interviews all the time.

If I were in the jury's shoes I might think that telling the truth would have been better, because this case involves the death from unknown cause, of her new-born baby in her care, and the jury appear to be lasting longer than any of her defence lawyers; their conclusions might count for something.