UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon & Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #2 *Arrest*

[QB2022]

Some hope. The police are the press conference stated the arrest (not yet charged) for gross negligence and manslaughter was part of the 'investigation stratergy' - over the time elapsing since the baby was seen and was now potentially left alone overnight - rather than because they have any concrete evidence of the baby's death. They've not found the camp either.

I mean it's not a lot, however it seems as if there isn't evidence of the baby died yet. At least nothing being released. I wonder if they had time to shop and what they bought, I still think that will say a lot.

I suppose the logic is that if baby is alive that at this point when facing these charges then any sensible person would say so. If the baby is safe it shouldn't be an issue revealing their location.

 

[QB2022]

Some hope. The police are the press conference stated the arrest (not yet charged) for gross negligence and manslaughter was part of the 'investigation stratergy' - over the time elapsing since the baby was seen and was now potentially left alone overnight - rather than because they have any concrete evidence of the baby's death. They've not found the camp either.

I mean it's not a lot, however it seems as if there isn't evidence of the baby died yet. At least nothing being released. I wonder if they had time to shop and what they bought, I still think that will say a lot.

I suppose the logic is that if baby is alive that at this point when facing these charges then any sensible person would say so. If the baby is safe it shouldn't be an issue revealing their location.

 

[Purplepixii]

Some hope. The police are the press conference stated the arrest (not yet charged) for gross negligence and manslaughter was part of the 'investigation stratergy' - over the time elapsing since the baby was seen and was now potentially left alone overnight - rather than because they have any concrete evidence of the baby's death. They've not found the camp either.

I mean it's not a lot, however it seems as if there isn't evidence of the baby died yet. At least nothing being released. I wonder if they had time to shop and what they bought, I still think that will say a lot.

Although I expect the worst I wanted to add a little hope too. I remember in one of the early articles I read that it stated that CM & MG had “bought mobile phones & were seen swapping SIM cards”. This behaviour from 2 people who “went off-grid some time ago”.

MOO you’d only buy “disposable” mobiles/SIM cards if you wanted to contact another person/people (especially as these 2 seemed to be joined at the hip). What if those phones were used to contact someone supportive of them to take/care for the baby, safe in the knowledge that the helper wouldn’t dob them in?

IMO it’s the only hope I’ve got.

 

[Rusty Braincells]

As well as the baby my heart goes out to people who are struggling or not able to have children. I can only imagine that seeing things like this just adds to their pain.

Don’t want to make it about anyone else but the baby, but as it happens, can say from personal experience: yes, it does. My partner and I would do anything to have IVF work for us.

Holding out hope this little one has made it somehow. Needless to say he or she deserved better than this.

 

[Nell91]

Massive hugs to you, Rusty <3

 

[JennieM]

Don’t want to make it about anyone else but the baby, but as it happens, can say from personal experience: yes, it does. My partner and I would do anything to have IVF work for us.

Holding out hope this little one has made it somehow. Needless to say he or she deserved better than this.

Sincerely hope it works for you.

 

[Telltale]

I suppose the logic is that if baby is alive that at this point when facing these charges then any sensible person would say so. If the baby is safe it shouldn't be an issue revealing their location.

I think that logic would be aimed at anyone concealing the baby for them out of misguided wish to help the family.

I don't think at this point anyone is expecting these two to act in a logical sane way when it comes to letting services have contact the baby - even for its own welfare. If that was the case, none of this would have happened. At the least, you would hope the parents would have given up the location immediately after they were arrested rather than risk leaving their two month old baby alone and possibly exposed to the cold in some camp overnight.

I really really hope the reason they arn't talking is because either, they know the baby is being cared for or, there is nothing to be done for the little thing anymore. A dark thought, but darker is the idea these two are sitting in a police cell while their little one cries out in some remote place with nobody to hear them.

I have sympathy for parents potential mental health struggles, coercive controlling relationships or the anguish of having loved and wanted children being taken by social services - even if they were taken for good reason. My sympathy stops at the point they put a helpless newborn in danger, which has quite clearly been the case all along. We can only prey for a happy ending at this point, though the possibility grows more remote every hour.

 

[Maltesepuppy]

Don’t want to make it about anyone else but the baby, but as it happens, can say from personal experience: yes, it does. My partner and I would do anything to have IVF work for us.

Holding out hope this little one has made it somehow. Needless to say he or she deserved better than this.

I'm sorry to hear you are going through this. I hope IVF works out for you both and , of course that this baby is found alive.

 

[Nell91]

Telltale, I have also had that dark thought. If that is the case, I sincerely hope the book is well and truly launched at them. As a mum I'm really struggling to have sympathy (then again I don't know anything about the actual situation)

 

[SilentSnow]

delete

 

[Rusty Braincells]

Although I expect the worst I wanted to add a little hope too. I remember in one of the early articles I read that it stated that CM & MG had “bought mobile phones & were seen swapping SIM cards”. This behaviour from 2 people who “went off-grid some time ago”.

MOO you’d only buy “disposable” mobiles/SIM cards if you wanted to contact another person/people (especially as these 2 seemed to be joined at the hip). What if those phones were used to contact someone supportive of them to take/care for the baby, safe in the knowledge that the helper wouldn’t dob them in?

IMO it’s the only hope I’ve got.

This is a good reason to hold out hope, thank you for this post. Maybe they were speaking to someone and maybe that person has the baby.

Similarly, I hope the gross negligence manslaughter arrest is primarily to add pressure to say where the child is.

 

[Telltale]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

I also have to spare a thought for all the police desperately searching for this baby. Especially those trying to find them now and trying to get them to just tell them were the little one is.

If it turns out there was a window of opportunity to save the baby and they don't find it in time... Well I think if I was the police involved in finding/ investigating/ searching/ interviewing them... the what-if's would break me. You would forever wonder if there was something more you could have done or said or thought of or searched that might have made the difference.

 

[infinit]

Although I expect the worst I wanted to add a little hope too. I remember in one of the early articles I read that it stated that CM & MG had “bought mobile phones & were seen swapping SIM cards”. This behaviour from 2 people who “went off-grid some time ago”.

MOO you’d only buy “disposable” mobiles/SIM cards if you wanted to contact another person/people (especially as these 2 seemed to be joined at the hip). What if those phones were used to contact someone supportive of them to take/care for the baby, safe in the knowledge that the helper wouldn’t dob them in?

IMO it’s the only hope I’ve got.

I'd like to think if they were found with a phone of them that it has been with forensics today, that the phone records have been got from the carrier and there is emergency disclosure requests in with every service the phone has logged into for geo-location and any interaction with other users.

A lack of phone would be unfortunate, but would also suggest without a map that they were either wondering aimlessly or they knew the route they were taking.

 

[Furore]

Reported in MSM. Must be true then

Simply providing the link to back up something I’ve pointed out as per WS rules.

 

[SilentSnow]

Constance Marten: Police find child’s ear muffs near arrest site

Constance Marten: Police find child’s ear muffs near arrest site

Police searching for the missing new-born have found pink earmuffs close to where Marten and her sex offender partner were arrested

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Nell91]

Praying hard that those ear muffs are relevant

 

[Purplepixii]

After all these years on WS I still haven’t learned to screenshot things that might be important, that changes now. Took me a while, I know i read it in either the DM or the Independent, but I didn’t dream it, it’s mentioned in this article

“Marten, who had a family trust fund, had withdrawn large amounts of cash, between £5,000 and £15,000, as an escape fund before going on the run. The couple are believed to have bought burner phones and multiple sim cards to avoid being traced. They slept in tents and were spotted in the north-west, London, Essex and across the south-east of London, including at major ports.”

Two people who never seem to be apart (for whatever reason) wouldn’t need burner phones unless they’re contacting other people. I hope the police have the phones/SIM cards & are doing their investigations on them for clues.

 

[Furore]

I don't think the allotments would have made sense personally. Unless they wanted shelter. I guess perhaps they don't get a lot of use in winter. But a baby crying there would likely draw unwanted attention. You'd think a hungry baby that hadn't been fed since at least last night would be crying and not *that* hard to find if it was in the vicinity.

JMO.

My sense here was looking for a burial actually jmo

 

[GreekGal]

They haven't stated this but none of the images whilst in brighton/Sussex look like a baby is with them and they dumped the buggy

In all of the CCTV images issued so far by the police, I have seen no solid evidence of a baby with them. Not once. CM could have had a rolled up jumper inside her coat and it was impossible to see what was inside the buggy. Given what I know, I would guess that the poor baby died some time in early to mid January because of the high risk birth and how the tragic events played out with the broken down car and the cold weather. If this does turn out to be the case then I truly pray that he or she will be at peace now. J.M.O. M.O.O.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

I don't think the allotments would have made sense personally. Unless they wanted shelter. I guess perhaps they don't get a lot of use in winter. But a baby crying there would likely draw unwanted attention. You'd think a hungry baby that hadn't been fed since at least last night would be crying and not *that* hard to find if it was in the vicinity.

JMO.

This just made me think. When I lived in England, I lived 20 miles away from Brighton.
There are urban foxes where I lived and also in Brighton. A foxes cries sound exactly like a newborn baby crying. I have actually in the past been so sure it was a baby crying I went out in the dark to find 'the baby', after some research 'what animals sound like human babies?' it turns out foxes do. After that time, I knew when I heard that noise it was foxes.
I'm assuming living near allotments and a wooded area, the residents would also assume that a 'baby crying' was just foxes.

JMO