UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon & Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #2 *Arrest*

[sunnynz]

This is awful. Best case the baby is alive and its parents had left it unattended in winter temps in a potentially outdoor living situation. Hardly a great best case. I just lost any shred of empathy I had for them.

Or maybe baby us with someone else and has been for some time. Gosh I really hope so.

 

[Alyce]

Apologies as I haven’t read the entire thread yet. When were they last spotted with the pushchair? I seem to recall that it was on the news that it was a number of weeks ago and this was in a different area. If they disposed of the pushchair some time ago, do the Police believe that the baby has been in Brighton with them, alive? If the pushchair was disposed of, it could indicate they no longer needed it.

In east London they bought camping gear and had a pram, but dumped the buggy in Flower and Dean Walk near Brick Lane shortly before midnight on Saturday January 7.

Police appeal to aristocrat missing with her partner and newborn to make contact

The couple and their baby went missing in early January.

www.salisburyjournal.co.uk

 

[Telltale]

Fortunately providing a phone is on it will be communicating with the network. You don't need to do anything such as make a call or text for it to be doing it. The problem you've got is without knowing the IMEI or the number you don't know what phone you're looking for.

(JMO)

Aye you aren't wrong. My point was more that in more rural areas, the towers can be quite far apart, it seems they were on the edge of Brighton. If it isn't well covered, triangulating their use might still mean police are looking at quite a large area, with large margins of error that also need to be accounted for. Especially they were using properly low tech phones or weren't tracking location.

Also, some phones can be shocking hard to break into, even for police forces. So just because they have them doesn't mean they can quickly and easily access what's in them IMO.

 

[GreekGal]

I agree. This was one of the last sightings. Those coats are done up so high I don't see how either are baby wearing without suffocating a baby. Baby could be in a bag though View attachment 406040

And I seem to recall that they were walking along pretty speedily each with both arms swinging bags on the moving shot of the above. Taxi drivers reported a couple of times that a baby was with them but what if it was supposedly sleeping whilst swaddled with its mother and they just played the odd baby grouching, crying noise from a phone recording on brief occasions along the route.

 

[Doughy]

This just made me think. When I lived in England, I lived 20 miles away from Brighton.
There are urban foxes where I lived and also in Brighton. A foxes cries sound exactly like a newborn baby crying. I have actually in the past been so sure it was a baby crying I went out in the dark to find 'the baby', after some research 'what animals sound like human babies?' it turns out foxes do. After that time, I knew when I heard that noise it was foxes.
I'm assuming living near allotments and a wooded area, the residents would also assume that a 'baby crying' was just foxes.

JMO

If you look for instagram photos tagged at the location of the allotments there are indeed a lot of foxes there.

 

[sunnynz]

I thought that applied only once a charge had been brought? There are no charges as yet. The press are still marking him as a rapist. See my post above from The Sun #482.

They’ve been arrested on suspicion of child neglect. There are charges. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...1fFwbXD3jl&id=100064620046507&mibextid=ncKXMA

 

[Obergine]

Constance Marten: Police find child’s ear muffs near arrest site

Constance Marten: Police find child’s ear muffs near arrest site

Police searching for the missing new-born have found pink earmuffs close to where Marten and her sex offender partner were arrested

www.independent.co.uk

I think these are a red-herring. I have googled where you can buy a pair like these and they doesn't appear to be sold locally, unless bought online by a boutique and sold in store.

 

[Telltale]

And I seem to recall that they were walking along pretty speedily each with both arms swinging bags on the moving shot of the above. Taxi drivers reported a couple of times that a baby was with them but what if it was supposedly sleeping whilst swaddled with its mother and they just played the odd baby grouching, crying noise from a phone recording on brief occasions along the route.

Yes but why would they? Everything they have done has been bent towards being seen and reported as little as possible, including it appears, camping through the coldest part of the year. They've been so successful there was not footage of them for nearly two months. For what purpose would they pretend to have a baby on them to random members of the public and CCTV?

 

[CaptainNancy]

This is awful. Best case the baby is alive and its parents had left it unattended in winter temps in a potentially outdoor living situation. Hardly a great best case. I just lost any shred of empathy I had for them.

Or maybe baby us with someone else and has been for some time. Gosh I really hope so.

Then why would the parents not now say so?

Rather than face manslaughter charges?

There is no benefit now in the parents continuing to refuse to disclose any evidence that the baby is safe. If they can't prove it is safe, they will be done for serious crimes and will never see the baby.

If they disclosed the safety of the baby they would be done for less serious crimes, but still not be seeing the baby - or maybe she would be allowed short supervised visits, who knows.

But I can see no reason why they would not say so if they know the baby to be safe.

 

[Alyce]

And I seem to recall that they were walking along pretty speedily each with both arms swinging bags on the moving shot of the above. Taxi drivers reported a couple of times that a baby was with them but what if it was supposedly sleeping whilst swaddled with its mother and they just played the odd baby grouching, crying noise from a phone recording on brief occasions along the route.

Detective Superintendent Lewis Basford said:
We know that the baby was still alive on 8 January and finding the baby remains our top priority.

Police appeal to aristocrat missing with her partner and newborn to make contact

The couple and their baby went missing in early January.

www.salisburyjournal.co.uk

 

[sunnynz]

Then why would the parents not now say so?

Rather than face manslaughter charges?

There is no benefit now in the parents continuing to refuse to disclose any evidence that the baby is safe. If they can't prove it is safe, they will be done for serious crimes and will never see the baby.

If they disclosed the safety of the baby they would be done for less serious crimes, but still not be seeing the baby - or maybe she would be allowed short supervised visits, who knows.

But I can see no reason why they would not say so if they know the baby to be safe.

Yes who knows. Perhaps they’re so deep in the mindset that they don’t want the baby taken away?

 

[Davieson]

This is awful. Best case the baby is alive and its parents had left it unattended in winter temps in a potentially outdoor living situation. Hardly a great best case. I just lost any shred of empathy I had for them.

Or maybe baby us with someone else and has been for some time. Gosh I really hope so.

Surely best case would be that it was in the care of someone else.

 

[Telltale]

It's dark out there now, and not warm. I don't prey, but I hope against all odds that the little wee mite is found safe and well soon.

Looking at the forecast, it's going to drop to 1°c, chance of frost, evening rain and windy in Brighton tonight.

 

[rhino]

They’ve been arrested on suspicion of child neglect. There are charges. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...1fFwbXD3jl&id=100064620046507&mibextid=ncKXMA

I don’t think they have been formally charged… Only arrested at the moment.

 

[elliefant]

Arrested means different things in different jurisdictions I believe. I learned here on WS that US and UK are different - I think in the US you are not arrested without being charged. Maybe the cause of confusion.

 

[GreekGal]

Considering that they took a lot of care not to be seen on cameras etc, and didn't get spotted between the 8th January and now, I don't think they would be motivated to pretend they had a baby with them, unless they had had a utter breakdown of their mental health and were fully delusional.

I am hoping that when they dumped the pushchair it was because it was either too busted up to handle their heavy use of it or they felt it was too obvious and the baby was still small enough for a sling etc, and not because they no longer needed it

I am not so sure. Once they read in the news that the car had not burned out fully and that evidence of a placenta/childbirth had been found on the back seat, they would.now have to produce evidence of a baby whilst at the same time, not really wanting the police to know where they were headed...hence the wild goose chase. Maybe they had not expected anyone to ever realise that CM had in fact been pregnant. Fortunately the car did not fully burn out.

 

[rhino]

Me neither, but just to point out that in the earlier weeks people on this thread were advised to ‘be kind’ since this was the first website that came up when their names were googled. As such I think some posters were appearing to be more supportive and empathetic towards the couple than they actually were, so as to sort of lull them into a false sense of security. If that makes sense! That was just my feeling at the time, so MOO.

Up until yesterday’s arrests, all 3 were victims as per forum rules. The arrests have changed all that.

 

[Davieson]

Arrested means different things in different jurisdictions I believe. I learned here on WS that US and UK are different - I think in the US you are not arrested without being charged. Maybe the cause of confusion.

Ha, in UK you can be arrested on suspicion - of almost anything

 

[GreekGal]

Detective Superintendent Lewis Basford said:
We know that the baby was still alive on 8 January and finding the baby remains our top priority.

Police appeal to aristocrat missing with her partner and newborn to make contact

The couple and their baby went missing in early January.

www.salisburyjournal.co.uk

OK thanks for that. Perhaps the police have other evidence apart from the CCTV shots which have been released to the public. From the ones I have seen, I have not seen hide nor hair of an actual baby.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

I don’t think they have been formally charged… Only arrested at the moment.

That is correct. Though they will have to do something within the next few hours as the first 24hrs will be up. I imagine they are hoping they can locate the baby in order to determine the charges.