UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon & Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #2 *Arrest*

[QB2022]

If the person the baby is with is truly safe it shouldn't be an issue revealing that. A best scenario could mean that they've found someone safe and suitable and through the proper process could be a suitable carer agreed with SS. I agree it's a very real prospect baby is with someone, I'm dubious about why they aren't revealing this.

Rationally at this stage they will be being advised to be open and honest to stand the best prospects going forward.

 

[Telltale]

After all these years on WS I still haven’t learned to screenshot things that might be important, that changes now. Took me a while, I know i read it in either the DM or the Independent, but I didn’t dream it, it’s mentioned in this article

“Marten, who had a family trust fund, had withdrawn large amounts of cash, between £5,000 and £15,000, as an escape fund before going on the run. The couple are believed to have bought burner phones and multiple sim cards to avoid being traced. They slept in tents and were spotted in the north-west, London, Essex and across the south-east of London, including at major ports.”

Two people who never seem to be apart (for whatever reason) wouldn’t need burner phones unless they’re contacting other people. I hope the police have the phones/SIM cards & are doing their investigations on them for clues.

It could be to let them have data. It's hard to move around or operate without internet access these days. It would also let them keep up to date on publicly released information about the investigation.

There was the odd time they were apart - didn't Mark Gordon go and buy the tent on his own? Though I agree, hopefully they had the phones on them and I am sure of so they have been urgently scoured through. Though, more rural areas tend to have larger gaps between cell towers, especially if they've not been using them for texts or calls and they have not had (or are to old a model for) location tracking on. So the area they are searching could still be quite large.

 

[QB2022]

In all of the CCTV images issued so far by the police, I have seen no solid evidence of a baby with them. Not once. CM could have had a rolled up jumper inside her coat and it was impossible to see what was inside the buggy. Given what I know, I would guess that the poor baby died some time in early to mid January because of the high risk birth and how the tragic events played out with the broken down car and the cold weather. If this does turn out to be the case then I truly pray that he or she will be at peace now. J.M.O. M.O.O.

I agree. This was one of the last sightings. Those coats are done up so high I don't see how either are baby wearing without suffocating a baby. Baby could be in a bag though

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

Wonder if the supplies included any baby provisions, might indicate no longer alive if none:

They were located on a residential street shortly before 9.30pm and an urgent search continues in the area.

The pair were discovered when members of the public alerted police after recognising the pair from police media appeals.

It’s understood they visited a convenience store near Fiveways, Brighton to pick up supplies before heading back towards the Roedale Valley allotments.

One resident Anna Drake, 34, told The Sun: “The couple were seen around Hollingbury Place - a parade of shops. They had shopping and supplies and they were heading back towards the allotments.

Giveaway that led to aristocrat and lover's capture after 7 weeks on run

CONSTANCE Marten and her lover Mark Gordon were captured by cops while “shopping for supplies” after being on the run for seven weeks. The Aristocrat and her convicted sex offender boyfriend were l…

www.thesun.co.uk

 

[Sillybilly]

Interesting that none of the Press reports are detailing his criminal record. No mention, except that the Daily Mail calls him her ‘rapist boyfriend’.

<rsbm>

In the UK, the moment a person is under arrest, and throughout the entire judicial process, sub judice kicks in and prior acts can not be publicized.

This is copied from another thread which is a murder trial, but the basics of sub judice are the same:

Basically anything that may prejudice the accused’s right to a fair trial
Any suggestion, opinion, or direct accusation that the accused is either guilty OR innocent
(i.e. the accused cannot be called "the killer"; use "the accused", "the alleged killer", or "the defendant")
A defendant’s previous history of any offences is off limits
Scandalizing the court (disparaging judges, lawyers, any officer of the Court) is off limits
Broadcasting anything about proceedings which happen in the jury's absence is off limits
Any non compliance with an Order of the court is off limits

Note in the event of an Appeal subsequent to verdict:

Appeals are usually heard by senior judges who are not likely to be influenced by the media, therefore responsible comment is usually considered acceptable once a trial has concluded, regardless of if there is going to be an appeal.


Reference: UK Contempt of Court Act 1981

 

[Haveyoufedthecat]

Dear God let this baby be found alive and this wee soul isn't out in the open. If the baby is found in the open then I'm afraid that is beyond wickedness and I too am a Mother.

 

[Telltale]

In all of the CCTV images issued so far by the police, I have seen no solid evidence of a baby with them. Not once. CM could have had a rolled up jumper inside her coat and it was impossible to see what was inside the buggy. Given what I know, I would guess that the poor baby died some time in early to mid January because of the high risk birth and how the tragic events played out with the broken down car and the cold weather. If this does turn out to be the case then I truly pray that he or she will be at peace now. J.M.O. M.O.O.

Considering that they took a lot of care not to be seen on cameras etc, and didn't get spotted between the 8th January and now, I don't think they would be motivated to pretend they had a baby with them, unless they had had a utter breakdown of their mental health and were fully delusional.

I am hoping that when they dumped the pushchair it was because it was either too busted up to handle their heavy use of it or they felt it was too obvious and the baby was still small enough for a sling etc, and not because they no longer needed it

 

[Kassanddra]

Whatever happens/has happened, at some point Constance as a mother is going to have to deal with this (I mean psychologically) what on earth is going through their heads.
IMOO if the baby has died and they have covered their tracks or goodness knows whatever else has happened. They’ve both had plenty of time/opportunities to come and get help from family or other organisations.

 

[Coach]

Apologies as I haven’t read the entire thread yet. When were they last spotted with the pushchair? I seem to recall that it was on the news that it was a number of weeks ago and this was in a different area. If they disposed of the pushchair some time ago, do the Police believe that the baby has been in Brighton with them, alive? If the pushchair was disposed of, it could indicate they no longer needed it.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

<rsbm>

In the UK, the moment a person is under arrest, and throughout the entire judicial process, sub judice kicks in and prior acts can not be publicized.

This is copied from another thread which is a murder trial, but the basics of sub judice are the same:

Basically anything that may prejudice the accused’s right to a fair trial
Any suggestion, opinion, or direct accusation that the accused is either guilty OR innocent
(i.e. the accused cannot be called "the killer"; use "the accused", "the alleged killer", or "the defendant")
A defendant’s previous history of any offences is off limits
Scandalizing the court (disparaging judges, lawyers, any officer of the Court) is off limits
Broadcasting anything about proceedings which happen in the jury's absence is off limits
Any non compliance with an Order of the court is off limits

Note in the event of an Appeal subsequent to verdict:

Appeals are usually heard by senior judges who are not likely to be influenced by the media, therefore responsible comment is usually considered acceptable once a trial has concluded, regardless of if there is going to be an appeal.


Reference: UK Contempt of Court Act 1981

I thought that applied only once a charge had been brought? There are no charges as yet. The press are still marking him as a rapist. See my post above from The Sun #482.

 

[Amaz0nia]

I think my opinions on these two would get me kicked off the site.

It may be this baby is with someone, safe and well and that person will eventually come forward. However I am not holding out hope. There does not appear to be any evidence that these two have reached out or received help from any outside parties. Or that they were ever willing to put the babies health, safety and welfare before their own desire to keep it from the hands of authorities who it seems, had very good reason to think they weren't safe parents.

Yes i feel exactly the same way-poor little baby. I just wish they would say where he/she is or what happened to them..the baby deserves this dignity at the least- considering his/her chaotic start to their short little life so far. I dont hold out much hope now that either parents will offer this information.

 

[Tyzer]

Just my opinion and I hope that I'm wrong but I believe that the baby passed away some time ago.

 

[Firstsnow4]

As well as the baby my heart goes out to people who are struggling or not able to have children. I can only imagine that seeing things like this just adds to their pain.

Yes I agree I am lucky in that I have one living child, however having suffered two consecutive miscarriages, this really annoys me to my core. People would give anything for a child. IMO.

 

[infinit]

It could be to let them have data. It's hard to move around or operate without internet access these days. It would also let them keep up to date on publicly released information about the investigation.

There was the odd time they were apart - didn't Mark Gordon go and buy the tent on his own? Though I agree, hopefully they had the phones on them and I am sure of so they have been urgently scoured through. Though, more rural areas tend to have larger gaps between cell towers, especially if they've not been using them for texts or calls and they have not had (or are to old a model for) location tracking on. So the area they are searching could still be quite large.

Fortunately providing a phone is on it will be communicating with the network. You don't need to do anything such as make a call or text for it to be doing it. The problem you've got is without knowing the IMEI or the number you don't know what phone you're looking for.

(JMO)

 

[Davieson]

Whatever happens/has happened, at some point Constance as a mother is going to have to deal with this (I mean psychologically) what on earth is going through their heads.
IMOO if the baby has died and they have covered their tracks or goodness knows whatever else has happened. They’ve both had plenty of time/opportunities to come and get help from family or other organisations.

I don' think she wanted anything to do with her family under any circumstances, hence the attempt to disappear.

 

[Furore]

This is absolutely tragic and I’m nauseated this evening. I know it’s quite possible there is coercion and any other number of reasons someone might be less culpable but even animals don’t leave their young, and find shelter for them (animals are beautiful, it’s a bad analogy) but this is very wicked.

To let a baby come to harm rather than let anyone else care for it is one of the most soulless scenarios imaginable.

How has it all gone so wrong. It’s against every instinct as a mother.

 

[Obergine]

Listening to the doorbell footage on headphones. I think they mention moving on to London. Something like MG "Have you got my wallet?", CM "Yeah", MG "Good", CM "Do you think we should move on to London then?", MG "Yeah...[something, something] police..."

EXCLUSIVE: CCTV shows Constance Marten and Mark Gordon before arrest

The couple were heard having a row as they walked along Stanmer Villas at just before 9.30pm last night, five minutes before they were held, exclusive footage obtained by MailOnline shows.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Telltale]

Apologies as I haven’t read the entire thread yet. When were they last spotted with the pushchair? I seem to recall that it was on the news that it was a number of weeks ago and this was in a different area. If they disposed of the pushchair some time ago, do the Police believe that the baby has been in Brighton with them, alive? If the pushchair was disposed of, it could indicate they no longer needed it.

I think it was near Brick Lane, Whitechapel (London) on the 8th January. The BBC states they had been seen shopping around the area that day and CM had been seen cradling (hopefully the baby) under her coat at points. So it appears the baby and was alive and with them shortly before they dumped it before getting into a taxi.

The Sun states that these images are just before and after they dumped it. CM isn't cradling anything at this point, but that white strap under her hoodie(?) Could be a baby-wear sling, which might explain her hands free movements in later images.

 

[pineapple23]

I dont hold out much hope now that either parents will offer this information.

Same here. It's a horrible thought but I can't see how this is anything other than a recovery operation now. JMO

 

[Haveyoufedthecat]

My opinion only but would it be an idea for the Police to make a press appeal that if this baby is in the care of someone then that "someone" can take baby to a place of safety, eg Doctors Surgery, Hospital, Fire Station, Police Station and no charges will be brought on them. For all of us here I'm sure the welfare of that baby is of paramount importance and if this is the only way to bring that baby back into safety just do it.