UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 Sep 2016 #24

[Miss_French]

One other thing I picked up this week from the inquest was in respect of the phone tracking. The lady speaking said they had phone tracking data which appeared to match the bin route. Now you would only usually use a word like appeared because there is an element of doubt or uncertainty. I found this odd in respect of a matter which should be a straight matter of fact. Either the tracking matches the bin route or it doesn’t. No appeared about it. If I was running the inquest I would have instantly asked for clarification. Only explanation I can come up with is that there is some doubt exactly what route the bin lorry took.

I may well be being overly pedantic and it is a personal bugbear of mine when people use appear or apparently when they are not necessary. My instant reaction is that it must mean there is a degree of doubt. To what degree I have no idea.

Tracking a mobile phone is done by 2 activities: following its connection to masts/antennas to see the direction of travel, and measuring the signal strength to determine how close the phone is to the mast. It's not like a spy film where there's a tracker on a car and someone sees a line of dots on a map on some handheld device; you'll have gaps because of the spacing of masts and it's more a case of join the dots between masts with a calculation of proximity.

They can't say with 100% certainty Corrie's phone was in the bin lorry; it was debated on here that it could have been in a car that closely followed the lorry. However, if the phone leaves the horseshoe at the same time as a particular vehicle, is connecting to masts along the route at the same speed and at the same distance from them as said vehicle on a particular road, then it's going to 'appear' to be in that vehicle.

Can't see any other explanation for the phone moving when and how it did.

 

[Officer Dibble]

One other thing I picked up this week from the inquest was in respect of the phone tracking. The lady speaking said they had phone tracking data which appeared to match the bin route. Now you would only usually use a word like appeared because there is an element of doubt or uncertainty. I found this odd in respect of a matter which should be a straight matter of fact. Either the tracking matches the bin route or it doesn’t. No appeared about it. If I was running the inquest I would have instantly asked for clarification. Only explanation I can come up with is that there is some doubt exactly what route the bin lorry took.

I may well be being overly pedantic and it is a personal bugbear of mine when people use appear or apparently when they are not necessary. My instant reaction is that it must mean there is a degree of doubt. To what degree I have no idea.

thanks for sharing this. very interesting.

 

[Chrisxxx]

Frankly, the pathologist is taking a load of rubbish (parson the pun). It's
a fact the people have been
discovered alive In the back of bin
lorries, so he cannot claim Corrie
would have died immediately! It is
also a fact that people who
accidentally get tipped into waste
lorries (is, rough sleepers etc) are
Always discovered at the waste
transfer station. In England, not ONE
person has made it all the way to
landfill, (at least no since the EU
changed the waste laws). The
inquest should rely on facts, not
opinions!

 

[Owlpellet]

Frankly, the pathologist is taking a load of rubbish (parson the pun). It's
a fact the people have been
discovered alive In the back of bin
lorries, so he cannot claim Corrie
would have died immediately! It is
also a fact that people who
accidentally get tipped into waste
lorries (is, rough sleepers etc) are
Always discovered at the waste
transfer station. In England, not ONE
person has made it all the way to
landfill, (at least no since the EU
changed the waste laws). The
inquest should rely on facts, not
opinions!

Well it’s definitely true that the fatalities who were discovered were discovered. And that they were more likely to be discovered at the treatment plants than they would be at the landfill. But we know nothing about undiscovered deaths do we? Given that most are rough sleepers and sadly, often not missed. For all we know there have been many more deaths than the 7 which have been documented.

 

[davidt]

Well it’s definitely true that the fatalities who were discovered were discovered. And that they were more likely to be discovered at the treatment plants than they would be at the landfill. But we know nothing about undiscovered deaths do we? Given that most are rough sleepers and sadly, often not missed. For all we know there have been many more deaths than the 7 which have been documented.

Yes, I mentioned up thread that by definition we don't know about the undiscovered ones. Whether there are any and if so how many. Be interesting to hear an experts opinion on the likelihood of this happening. Similarly if he did end up in landfill how likely you would it think it is that the subsequent search would find nothing.

 

[Chrisxxx]

No evidence exists to say he was crushed in the bin lorry He should still be treated as a missing person.
The police should have just said they can't find him.

 

[davidt]

Jury have begun their deliberations. Jury begins deliberations over how missing airman Corrie McKeague died | ITV News

 

[Cherwell]

Well, I hope there's been more questions than have been reported.

 

[annpats]

I'll still never understand why he slept in the doorway and then also (allegedly) a waste bin in when his car wasn't parked too far away.
Yes, he'd been drinking, but surely sleeping in the back seat would have been OK.

 

[Cherwell]

I'll still never understand why he slept in the doorway and then also (allegedly) a waste bin in when his car wasn't parked too far away.
Yes, he'd been drinking, but surely sleeping in the back seat would have been OK.

Legally, it's not. It counts as being in charge of the vehicle.
Drink-driving penalties

Section 5 RTA 1988 - Driving or being in charge with alcohol concentration above prescribed limit
Section 5 RTA 1988 sets out this offence and provides a defence.

A person who drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, or is in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, after consuming so much alcohol that the proportion of it in his breath, blood or urine exceeds the prescribed limit is guilty of an offence.

In relation to being in charge of a motor vehicle, a person is not guilty if he proves that the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving the vehicle whilst the proportion of alcohol in his breath, blood or urine exceeded the prescribed limit.

I think he would have struggled to prove a defence.

 

[davidt]

Legally, it's not. It counts as being in charge of the vehicle.
Drink-driving penalties

Section 5 RTA 1988 - Driving or being in charge with alcohol concentration above prescribed limit
Section 5 RTA 1988 sets out this offence and provides a defence.

A person who drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, or is in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, after consuming so much alcohol that the proportion of it in his breath, blood or urine exceeds the prescribed limit is guilty of an offence.

In relation to being in charge of a motor vehicle, a person is not guilty if he proves that the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving the vehicle whilst the proportion of alcohol in his breath, blood or urine exceeded the prescribed limit.

I think he would have struggled to prove a defence.

Think they used to say to "get away" with sleeping in the back you needed to dispose of your car keys. That way the car isn't capable of being driven. No idea if that's correct.

 

[annpats]

Think they used to say to "get away" with sleeping in the back you needed to dispose of your car keys. That way the car isn't capable of being driven. No idea if that's correct.

Although technically, driving it from the back seat would be near impossible.
Not that I imagine there are many police on the street in the early hours of Bury St. Edmunds to have checked anyway.

But still, where were his RAF buddies? I think it's odd for a young lad to go pubbing and clubbing alone. They usually go out in small groups.

MOO

 

[Cherwell]

Although technically, driving it from the back seat would be near impossible.
Not that I imagine there are many police on the street in the early hours of Bury St. Edmunds to have checked anyway.

I think it's more a matter of deterring people from driving home after a sleep while still over the limit.

 

[altojack]

But still, where were his RAF buddies? I think it's odd for a young lad to go pubbing and clubbing alone. They usually go out in small groups.

MOO

Originally Corrie had decided not to go out to Bury st Edmunds that night but changed his mind again at the last minute. His RAF buddies had already gone so he had to take his car.
Corrie eventually tracked his buddies down in the Club but he got told to leave. No further mention was made about his group.
If I've remembered this incorrectly Im sure one of the originals in the thread will correct me.

 

[Miss_French]

No evidence exists to say he was crushed in the bin lorry He should still be treated as a missing person.
The police should have just said they can't find him.

Corrie has been declared missing, presumed dead.

 

[Miss_French]

I'll still never understand why he slept in the doorway and then also (allegedly) a waste bin in when his car wasn't parked too far away.
Yes, he'd been drinking, but surely sleeping in the back seat would have been OK.

He had a 2-seater sports car, so no back seat.

 

[davidt]

Corrie Mckeague inquest concludes he died after going into bin didn't take long for a verdict

 

[Cherwell]

I wouldn't have been so easily persuaded had I been on the jury.
Are jurors allowed to ask questions at an inquest?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Corrie Mckeague inquest concludes he died after going into bin didn't take long for a verdict

Well I guess that’s the end of that… officially. I still don’t understand why they didn’t find any sign of him in landfill after such a thorough search though.

RIP Corrie.

 

[annpats]

Corrie Mckeague inquest concludes he died after going into bin didn't take long for a verdict

Well, that's all nicely wrapped up then. End of.

Except it isn't. Not really.

Although I still think it's likely he could've died after going in the bin, I don't think this verdict reflects what truly happen.
Surely an "inconclusive" or "Accident by mis-adventure" verdict would be more appropriate.