I totally agree, it's 99.9% certainty that he is deceased, awful to think and say but that's the only outcome to this after all this time I think 😔
UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #1
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I totally agree, it's 99.9% certainty that he is deceased, awful to think and say but that's the only outcome to this after all this time I think 😔
Weeobanite
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I have a feeling that corrie is still with his phone. I also have a very bad feeling that there's water involved. I hope to God not though! It's such a sad story and I hope his family get some answers soon.
CoverMeCagney
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The only thing that makes me think it's NOT water, is that his phone apparently stopped moving at 4:30am but didn't lose power until 8am. If he fell in water wouldn't his phone have cut out within minutes?
mrazda71
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Only if Corrie and his phone were together ...
CoverMeCagney
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Yes, I was replying to Weeobanite's theory that he still has his phone. Personally, I don't think he's in water IF he has his phone, I'd be surprised if he's found drowned with his phone in his pocket. But then, I've been wrong plenty of times before as you know!!
My gut feeling is he left his phone somewhere, it has been picked up by a random person (possibly a binman but not a hitman lol!) and discarded for whatever reason. I think Corrie has then stumbled back towards base and something happened on the way. Whether that was foul play, a car accident, a fall or drowning I don't know. I hope the 4:20am sighting was him, not sure how they have seemingly ruled that out already.
I don't think he slept in a bin (he'd just had a nap AND was in white jeans!)
I don't think the takeaway dude did it.
I don't think he's been kidnapped by ISIS or anyone else
I do think its weird the other takeaway customers haven't come forward, but we must remember their interaction was 2 hours prior.
I do think, sadly, he's no longer with us but I wish I didn't.
I do think it's time for mass public searches, Adrian style, what is there to lose?
Weeobanite
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Yes that's a good point, unless ( and I know nothing about phone pings ) but when your phone does ping and you can narrow that down to a certain area ( say a few miles ) before it would then be detected by a different mast.. could it be that he hung about that area for some reason! How far is it from the phones last location to the sugar factory? I really think they should be getting some divers in there.
CoverMeCagney
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As far as I know phone pings work by triangulation. So it will take 3 masts and a distance from each, which should pinpoint roughly where a phone is. I imagine these pings are fairly regular but not necessarily simultaneous, so it's not an exact science but they can (and have) get a rough guesstimate of a phones route.
I know a few people who have successfully found their phone using mobile apps like, er, 'Find My Phone' which uses GPS or something to pinpoint an exact position. Hopefully the day will come when we (meaning the police or someones family) can hack into a phones last known GPS whether it's switched on or not. It would solve a lot of missing people cases much faster!
CoverMeCagney
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Has anyone got a map going for this case? Points of interest - the RAF base, the USAF base, Barton Mills bin depot, the sugar factory, the routes he could have taken home etc
Would the phone apps stop updating for any other reason? Low battery power? Some other reason? Flight mode?
Surely the mum's quote is talking about a different type of communication with the mast? The phone pings regardless of whether or not apps are updating at the time, but it's a different type of ping. If there's no app updating then there's still comm pings that basically say "hi, where are you?"
I don't know how frequent these pings are? If a phone is traveling by car, then won't the distance between pings refer to greater distances than if the phone is traveling at walking pace? More phone masts will add greater accuracy to this kind of triangulation, and more pings+more masts means even greater accuracy even when traveling at speed.
FTR triangulation takes two masts, not three. The third point in triangulation is the object you're trying to find the position of. It's a common error, and I don't think it is relevant, it's just a bugbear of mine, and if someone wants to know for the future, then triangulation requires two spots in addition to the position of the object that you're trying to find the location of. TV shows almost always get this wrong and put up an image of a triangle on the screen with the object in the centre, but that's not correct.
The other thing is that if there's only one mast within distance, then you can't triangulate, you can only give a circle of radius from the mast. I remember when the Malaysian plane (MH240?) went missing that they used ping times to and from satellite(s) to get a distance result, but if you don't have two masts then that isn't directional but would provide inner and outer boundaries for a circle. (I hope that comes over as English and not gobbledegook.) They probably do have more than one mast and are triangulating, but it's the sort of nuance they probably wouldn't communicate accurately to the public. They're not intending to give us the information to run an investigation by ourselves, they're trying to give us the information to determine if we might have seen him that night or if he might be in our garden shed and we should search such an area.
Yet another thing is that when I tried to search the difference between 'off' and 'no battery' it was very hard to get a hard and fast answer. Some people believe some phones will still ping even in 'off mode'. Others say 'off means off'. The only certain thing I could find is that battery out definitely means no ping, but there was so much confusion over what does 'off' mean with mobile phones even amongst people who are tech-oriented.
Mildenhall is in the Barton Mills area, and if you were entering a mobile phone restriction zone, then you might turn your phone to 'an' off position, but how 'off' do you need to be? I would have said no pings off, but for that it should be sufficient to turn the phone to a hard 'off' as you do in a hospital or similar place...no one takes their battery out when they enter a hospital or other computer zone, but they have to turn it off to remove the interference, which I always thought came from the pings? But I could be wrong on that last point as it was just an assumption. I remember an old phone that would send interference through my computer every now and then, but it wasn't more than about every 20 minutes?
I do agree with whoever said about a different ping if the phone is turned off (or on) ... not a different ping per se, but it will have a different message attached to the ping, and it's logical that a sign on/sign off ping might be 'forced' at a different timing interval than other regular comm pings (more gobbledegook, right?)
Surely the mum's quote is talking about a different type of communication with the mast? The phone pings regardless of whether or not apps are updating at the time, but it's a different type of ping. If there's no app updating then there's still comm pings that basically say "hi, where are you?"
I don't know how frequent these pings are? If a phone is traveling by car, then won't the distance between pings refer to greater distances than if the phone is traveling at walking pace? More phone masts will add greater accuracy to this kind of triangulation, and more pings+more masts means even greater accuracy even when traveling at speed.
FTR triangulation takes two masts, not three. The third point in triangulation is the object you're trying to find the position of. It's a common error, and I don't think it is relevant, it's just a bugbear of mine, and if someone wants to know for the future, then triangulation requires two spots in addition to the position of the object that you're trying to find the location of. TV shows almost always get this wrong and put up an image of a triangle on the screen with the object in the centre, but that's not correct.
The other thing is that if there's only one mast within distance, then you can't triangulate, you can only give a circle of radius from the mast. I remember when the Malaysian plane (MH240?) went missing that they used ping times to and from satellite(s) to get a distance result, but if you don't have two masts then that isn't directional but would provide inner and outer boundaries for a circle. (I hope that comes over as English and not gobbledegook.) They probably do have more than one mast and are triangulating, but it's the sort of nuance they probably wouldn't communicate accurately to the public. They're not intending to give us the information to run an investigation by ourselves, they're trying to give us the information to determine if we might have seen him that night or if he might be in our garden shed and we should search such an area.
Yet another thing is that when I tried to search the difference between 'off' and 'no battery' it was very hard to get a hard and fast answer. Some people believe some phones will still ping even in 'off mode'. Others say 'off means off'. The only certain thing I could find is that battery out definitely means no ping, but there was so much confusion over what does 'off' mean with mobile phones even amongst people who are tech-oriented.
Mildenhall is in the Barton Mills area, and if you were entering a mobile phone restriction zone, then you might turn your phone to 'an' off position, but how 'off' do you need to be? I would have said no pings off, but for that it should be sufficient to turn the phone to a hard 'off' as you do in a hospital or similar place...no one takes their battery out when they enter a hospital or other computer zone, but they have to turn it off to remove the interference, which I always thought came from the pings? But I could be wrong on that last point as it was just an assumption. I remember an old phone that would send interference through my computer every now and then, but it wasn't more than about every 20 minutes?
I do agree with whoever said about a different ping if the phone is turned off (or on) ... not a different ping per se, but it will have a different message attached to the ping, and it's logical that a sign on/sign off ping might be 'forced' at a different timing interval than other regular comm pings (more gobbledegook, right?)
I don't think the police have actually pinpointed a ping to the actual bin depot (or tip). All they've said is something to the effect of 'in the vicinity of Barton Mills'. As far as I know the bin depot only comes into it as the phone appeared to take the same time/route as the bin lorry going to its depot, but I haven't read them say that's the definite location that the phone was traced to by pings.
Purplepixii
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I did do one & posted a link earlier in the thread - am on my mobile atm but hopefully this works
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1dMWOQJNDrS-0zdP_KwnvQX5ymOY&usp=sharing
@Amonet !
That's it !
Well, I think "that could be an answer" to it !
The other day it had happened to me. Only because my "settings" were "misconfigured" on my phone.
Or rather, it went back to the configuration I'd set up "ages back", but never really want to use.
What had happened was, my phone went into "stamina mode" once the battery power hit a certain level.
And in that mode it shuts off "Apps" over wifi, when the screen isn't "live".
The phone is still "On", but the App don't update until you "turn on the screen" (or use it, check it, or whatever).
Hence "ping data" can still come from the "mobile's network providers" signal (i.e. like a "normal mobile phone").
But there will be "no activity" (and no "ping data") generated by the "Apps" updating.
Effectively, the phone goes into a kind of "temporary flight mode" if you like. It comes out of that mode, when you activate the phone.... when you "manually" use it, check it or whatever.
You'd have no "push" from apps (and so no notifications). And the phone wouldn't send out requests from apps to update....as the wifi would be "temporarily disabled".
The MAJOR problem with my answer is..... that would mean you extend the battery life of the phone.
It depends "when you set the Stamina Mode" to kick in, obviously. You might set it at a very low level, for example. But it would still extend your battery life quite considerably.
In the case of Corrie's phone, it was updating "up until it reached Barton Mills" at approx 4.30am.
At precisely that point, it would have to "kick into" Stamina Mode. And then "remain transmitting ONLY the network providers ping data". That seems like a HUGE coincidence.
And from 4.30am to 8.00am .....isn't "that much" of an extension of battery life. It may have been set to kick into Stamina Mode at "1%" say, but that would mean he left the camp at 11.15pm, with "hardly any battery" ?
P.S. Another possible answer could be.... "the wifi signal was too weak to update apps, but was able to transmit the network providers ping" ? But I would have thought, if you can get a "normal signal", you could still get wifi ?
Kind of "cellular data" available, but "no wifi" or "weak wifi" signal ?
That's it !
Well, I think "that could be an answer" to it !
The other day it had happened to me. Only because my "settings" were "misconfigured" on my phone.
Or rather, it went back to the configuration I'd set up "ages back", but never really want to use.
What had happened was, my phone went into "stamina mode" once the battery power hit a certain level.
And in that mode it shuts off "Apps" over wifi, when the screen isn't "live".
The phone is still "On", but the App don't update until you "turn on the screen" (or use it, check it, or whatever).
Hence "ping data" can still come from the "mobile's network providers" signal (i.e. like a "normal mobile phone").
But there will be "no activity" (and no "ping data") generated by the "Apps" updating.
Effectively, the phone goes into a kind of "temporary flight mode" if you like. It comes out of that mode, when you activate the phone.... when you "manually" use it, check it or whatever.
You'd have no "push" from apps (and so no notifications). And the phone wouldn't send out requests from apps to update....as the wifi would be "temporarily disabled".
The MAJOR problem with my answer is..... that would mean you extend the battery life of the phone.
It depends "when you set the Stamina Mode" to kick in, obviously. You might set it at a very low level, for example. But it would still extend your battery life quite considerably.
In the case of Corrie's phone, it was updating "up until it reached Barton Mills" at approx 4.30am.
At precisely that point, it would have to "kick into" Stamina Mode. And then "remain transmitting ONLY the network providers ping data". That seems like a HUGE coincidence.
And from 4.30am to 8.00am .....isn't "that much" of an extension of battery life. It may have been set to kick into Stamina Mode at "1%" say, but that would mean he left the camp at 11.15pm, with "hardly any battery" ?
P.S. Another possible answer could be.... "the wifi signal was too weak to update apps, but was able to transmit the network providers ping" ? But I would have thought, if you can get a "normal signal", you could still get wifi ?
Kind of "cellular data" available, but "no wifi" or "weak wifi" signal ?
MelmothTheLost
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What if it is, for example, thrown into water or severely damaged such as being run over by a bin lorry? Does it just go dead, or send out an "I'm swtiching off now" message?
MelmothTheLost
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I would have thought so, as soon as water entered the device and shorted a few circuits.
The coincidence of the timing was why I asked if going into a mobile phone restricted area might be the answer.
Corrie made a bit of use of the phone while he was out, I think it was something like three phone calls (might have been just before he went out, but the phone might not have been charging at that time so those calls would run it down). Then he presumably used wifi/internet to upload the picture to his brother at around 3am? He went out around 11pm, so he might have been using the phone earlier in the day. We don't know when the last charge was or how much it was used after that.
As for the strength of the signal...I don't know the details of that phone or the masts around there but I'd imagine it would all be reasonable coverage with G3...if I have my Gs correct then it would have to go down to G2 to lose the wifi? I can't see that happening in this day and age. I don't know about effects of a weak signal though. You can turn the wifi signal off manually to extend the battery if you wanted to save it in case of making/receiving a call and that would stop the apps updating but leave it pinging.
Wifi...you're not talking about wifi, you're talking about mobile data. It's very unlikely that many people do this but I keep mobile data turned off on my phone to save charges and only turn it on if I want to use the internet if I'm out and about. I don't think it's something that Corrie would have been bothered about doing, very few people will fall into the category of needing to do it, but you can do it...and say a person was on BT wifi, then walking around town they might be in range of BT wifi hotspots and have wifi coverage through them, which would be enough to update apps. But if mobile data is turned off, then they go outside the range of the wifi (or hotspot) then the phone won't update apps and will go back to normal pinging. I don't think this is the answer, because that would cut off the app updates earlier than 4.30 am if I'm right about hotspots/free wifi being clustered in the town centre and not being available on that road that goes from Bury to Barton Mills. So that's one option to answer your question posed, but I doubt that's what happened.
Corrie made a bit of use of the phone while he was out, I think it was something like three phone calls (might have been just before he went out, but the phone might not have been charging at that time so those calls would run it down). Then he presumably used wifi/internet to upload the picture to his brother at around 3am? He went out around 11pm, so he might have been using the phone earlier in the day. We don't know when the last charge was or how much it was used after that.
As for the strength of the signal...I don't know the details of that phone or the masts around there but I'd imagine it would all be reasonable coverage with G3...if I have my Gs correct then it would have to go down to G2 to lose the wifi? I can't see that happening in this day and age. I don't know about effects of a weak signal though. You can turn the wifi signal off manually to extend the battery if you wanted to save it in case of making/receiving a call and that would stop the apps updating but leave it pinging.
Wifi...you're not talking about wifi, you're talking about mobile data. It's very unlikely that many people do this but I keep mobile data turned off on my phone to save charges and only turn it on if I want to use the internet if I'm out and about. I don't think it's something that Corrie would have been bothered about doing, very few people will fall into the category of needing to do it, but you can do it...and say a person was on BT wifi, then walking around town they might be in range of BT wifi hotspots and have wifi coverage through them, which would be enough to update apps. But if mobile data is turned off, then they go outside the range of the wifi (or hotspot) then the phone won't update apps and will go back to normal pinging. I don't think this is the answer, because that would cut off the app updates earlier than 4.30 am if I'm right about hotspots/free wifi being clustered in the town centre and not being available on that road that goes from Bury to Barton Mills. So that's one option to answer your question posed, but I doubt that's what happened.
I think it would have to be turned off at the off switch to send out the "switching off now" message. If it was destroyed then the mast would attempt to ping the phone at the normal ping interval and it just wouldn't get a reply....it would be like a plane that suddenly disappears from radar.
When I said "wifi", I meant "mobile data". It's me being "lazy" with the terms !
I think Corrie would have had it set to "wifi" or "mobile data". And it switching between the two.
That's if the RAF have "free wifi on base" !
I'm assuming, as his mum reported his apps were updating "as normal" up until 4.30am ....and that it is said his phone would have been between Bury and Barton (so "rural"), his phone would have been on "mobile data".
If that was so (and we tend to think it is) and the police said his phone was stationary until 8.00am....
.....then that "4.30am to 8.00am" data must be "cellular only" data ?
Battery low, phone switches into stamina mode ?
Manually switching into "flight mode" ?
No Cellular + data available, just Cellular "G2" coverage due to area ?
Nothing makes sense. The area isn't "proper rural, rural".
What would "kill" your "mobile data", but keep your "cell data" pinging ?
I think Corrie would have had it set to "wifi" or "mobile data". And it switching between the two.
That's if the RAF have "free wifi on base" !
I'm assuming, as his mum reported his apps were updating "as normal" up until 4.30am ....and that it is said his phone would have been between Bury and Barton (so "rural"), his phone would have been on "mobile data".
If that was so (and we tend to think it is) and the police said his phone was stationary until 8.00am....
.....then that "4.30am to 8.00am" data must be "cellular only" data ?
Battery low, phone switches into stamina mode ?
Manually switching into "flight mode" ?
No Cellular + data available, just Cellular "G2" coverage due to area ?
Nothing makes sense. The area isn't "proper rural, rural".
What would "kill" your "mobile data", but keep your "cell data" pinging ?
Just heard on local news police are searching hedgerows and ditches around bse (sorry on way to work to don't have time to link but it was on bbc local news). I really hope that this is a re-search as I would have expected them to do this three and a half weeks ago!!!
Yeah, most people use 'wifi' to refer to both, but it just clicked in my head that it isn't quite the same thing and got me thinking about the differences and what effect that could have when thinking about this conundrum.
Low battery makes most sense. The problem with that is the timing being such a coincidence. The timing makes it seem like it was something manual or something connected to the location the phone was in at the time, or both?
Low battery makes most sense. The problem with that is the timing being such a coincidence. The timing makes it seem like it was something manual or something connected to the location the phone was in at the time, or both?
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