UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #13

[MidsummersDay]

MidsummersDay, you may have missed my earlier question or I missed the reply. If you have a chance to ask the phone guys anything else

I got it but it seems to have disappeared? Admin can you help as it was quite informative and helpful for the case.


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[Shiressleuth]

Ah ok, I see where you're going with that now. Interesting.


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Glad someone does cos it confuses the c**p out of me.
Phone was at BM at 4.30 and took 26 mins to get there from BSE so must have left BSE at 04.04 and av speed would be 29 mph. As the bin lorry did not leave bin area till 04.24 the phone (and C?) had therefore already left 20 mins at least beforehand. That is all I can understand at the moment. This means C could have walked out and been well on his way to Hollow road sighting at 04.20. It would be interesting to find out what the times of the possible A14 sightings were to see how they could tie in to these times.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I'm not familiar with 'find my phone' apps -- they use GPS?

So the police could send a copper out with a cheap used phone from a car boot sale and stick a sim card in it, stick it in the same bin at 3 am on a Saturday morning, wait for the bin lorry, and then keep pinging the phone with the 'find my phone' app and see what comes back to them? They could also glue a note onto the phone's screen and leather case (with the phone in a case) saying "call this number if you find this phone/case" and wait and see if they get a phone call and then question the person who found the phone/case and check it's condition after a trip in a recycling bin lorry. If no one phones, that might be because they chose not to, or it indicates the test phone is not discovered during sorting.

But if those 'find my phone' apps need gps turned on, then I'm not sure how you'd do the test for a phone with gps turned off?

And if it's that important to the family and the police can't run a test like this, then the family have some money and this would only cost a few tens of quid for the used phone, sim cards can be got for free, if one is necessary, and petrol money to the horseshoe. I would personally want to replicate conditions with the timing of the bin lorry if possible...and traffic conditions and atmospheric conditions will be different at night compared to in the daytime.

Another good suggestion for a simple test.

 

[Clevercat]

Nope, but if the phone mast hasn't heard from the phone itself for 3 minutes (it varies) then the mast will assume that the phone has 'gone to sleep'. Gone to sleep could mean damaged, immersed in water, battery exhaustion, switched off etc.
Imagine two adults standing on a river bank three hundred yards apart.The baby Moses is in his basket and is placed in the gently flowing river by the BSE adult. The river carries the baby Moses down the river at a steady pace crying all the way. At the same time, the BSE adult is shouting to him, 'it's ok, I can hear you Moses. You'll be fine.'. It get to a point where the BSE adult can no longer hear the Baby Moses crying in his basket so assumes he's either fallen asleep, learnt to swim....or drown. Poor Moses the BSE adult thinks and so sits quietly, sulks and gradually forgets about him.

Meanwhile, the BS adult hears crying coming towards him so shouts and waits for Moses to reply. Moses keeps crying until the BM adult hears him very clearly.

CAST:
Adult BSE - BSE mast and footprint
Adult BM - BM mast and footprint
River - journey between two masts
Baby Moses - Nokia Lumia 435

No babies were harmed in this enactment.


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Brilliant!

 

[MidsummersDay]

Just had a MAHOOSIVE thought about the phone/bin lorry situation. If the BSE adult and the BM adult can't hear baby Moses crying for three minutes as suggested in my earlier techy post due to limited coverage and signal loss etc...then this adds UPTO three minutes per loss. If we say that the signal has been lost once from BSE central to BM roundabout (which is perfectly feasible) then we can add upto three minutes on the phone's travelling time.

So if the phone left BSE central at 0422, then add on the travel time of 28 minutes stated plus UPTO 3 minutes to BM roundabout NOT to BM mast perimeter.
If the the bin lorry left BSE central at 0424 just add the lorry's travel time to the BM roundabout (22 minutes).

Phone: BSE to BM = 0422hrs departure time plus 28 minutes stated, equals an arrival time of 0450 at BM (+3 mins).
Bin lorry: BSE to BM = 0424hrs departure time plus 22 minutes travel time, equals an arrival time of 0446 at BM (30mph).

Holy moly, that's a close call. Need to analyse a bit more. Stay tuned.


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[Shiressleuth]

I do wonder when we have come to the end of this current theme whether we could devote some time, methodically, to AWOL too.
I always crossed it off my mental list but......

Whilst this is obviously very sensitive I was wondering if Greater Than could advise.
I don't want to open a can of worms but Greater Than can we explore the AWOL option, respectfully, without victim shaming (and the knee-jerk "it's because of sexuality" etc) based on the family members not being aware of this, obviously, speculating based on alternative interpretations of sources ?

( Have to ask for guidance , WS isn't reddit etc. If she does not see this I will send a message )

what do others think? is it do-able in a few days, I don't want to detract from the very meticulous explorations that haven't come to fruition/dead-end on other lines pursued here over the last few days. agree with nailing down existing lines before butterflying off onto the next.
Anyway, I'll bump this back up tomorrow or next day to see what people think otherwise Ruth's OP and my reply will get lost.


ETA _ Ruth - poster Blueazman has just updated us with a partial extract of Tony Wringe's update - now on the official FC website so that may have a bearing on ur UL above, altho I don't think that bit has been uploaded.

I have previously posted my awol theory which was shot down in flames, but it hasnt changed my opinion that much. The additional possible sightings and discounting the bin and pongs have made some difference to my thoughts. I do have a theory regarding the homeless guy but am still trying to work out how best to word it.

 

[Northern Light]

Glad someone does cos it confuses the c**p out of me.
Phone was at BM at 4.30 and took 26 mins to get there from BSE so must have left BSE at 04.04 and av speed would be 29 mph. As the bin lorry did not leave bin area till 04.24 the phone (and C?) had therefore already left 20 mins at least beforehand. That is all I can understand at the moment. This means C could have walked out and been well on his way to Hollow road sighting at 04.20. It would be interesting to find out what the times of the possible A14 sightings were to see how they could tie in to these times.

Good points Midsummer, especially the Hollow Road possible tie in.

 

[Northern Light]

I have previously posted my awol theory which was shot down in flames, but it hasnt changed my opinion that much. The additional possible sightings and discounting the bin and pongs have made some difference to my thoughts. I do have a theory regarding the homeless guy but am still trying to work out how best to word it.

Agree with your post. I too had the homeless guy in mind, because he was the guy Corrie told he was going to walk home and we don't know what the homeless guy told Corrie, but AWOL still for me but I am still open to a couple of other theories.

 

[MidsummersDay]

Nokia Lumia 435
.......The launch date of January 2015 is an important date as the contract came with a 24 month deal. If the phone was bought new, approximately six months BEFORE the end of the contract (July 2016) a new phone upgrade would have been offered. Again, presuming it had been given to him by his mother after her upgrade offer, it would suggest a UK model as a dual sim phone wouldn't necessarily be required in the UK. Additional interesting point to make is that a usual upgrade from a Nokia Lumia 435 is either a Nokia Lumia 550 or a Samsung Galaxy J5. What's N's new phone?

Brought forward from my previous post. Just had another thought which is linked to the bin lorry/phone timings.

Note the upgrade date of July 2016 onwards. September is only eight weeks from then. Could he have intentionally binned the phone with a thought of an upgrade or new phone OR it an intentional 'phone dump' to evade life in general? Seems like the phone/lorry timing are exceptionally close to me?!
JMO





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[Shiressleuth]

Agree with your post. I too had the homeless guy in mind, because he was the guy Corrie told he was going to walk home and we don't know what the homeless guy told Corrie.

Exactly. He told homeless guy he was walking home and gave him some food. This info came from the guy himself presumably.

 

[PilgrimsPrayer]

I would think he would reverse down it, it is only one way from the NCP car park onwards but have seen council wagons reverse down.
The driver then has a choice, quick left turn into HS area past McDonald's or right down Looms Lane and left on to Northgate etc.

I'm guessing that Higher Baxter Street is a one way street? Looks like the bin lorry would have to have set off a little earlier to do a collection there and then skirt all the way around town to get back into Shortbrackland and the 'Horseshoe' for the 0422 collection? I need to number crunch that one. Thoughts?


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[MidsummersDay]

The point I'm trying to make overall is that the phone in bin theory is predicated by the phone movement timings in that it said "hello" to BM at 0450 and we have an assumed speed and work back to BSE.

What we do not have is confirmation of the goodbye ping from BSE or in fact that apps were updating between 0308 and 0450 (they cannot have been or he would be easily traced).

Therefore there is a possibility that the phone arrived in Barton Mills mast area before 0450 and it was only at this point that it was turned on and began communicating with the BM mast.

Now why would it be turned off between 0308 and 0450?
Maybe to save battery, or maybe because somebody wanted to look at it before disposing of it.... That's why I would be looking at anybody transversing the Fiveways roundabout from 0340-0450.

Yep, I get what your saying....but what about the 28 minute statement? Not about 25 minutes or half an hour....but exactly 28 minutes. It's not a figure that can be concocted unless there's some semi-intelligent input afforded to its thesis. Work back from 0450 twenty eight minutes and you get a departure time of.....? (Rhetorical).
JMO


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[Shiressleuth]

They are not going to have any satellite footage of BSE from the night Corrie went missing to study. They might be able to look at still images taken of the area by a satellite and check for disturbed ground etc.

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How do you know this ironside?

 

[cottonweaver]

I have previously posted my awol theory which was shot down in flames, but it hasnt changed my opinion that much. The additional possible sightings and discounting the bin and pongs have made some difference to my thoughts. I do have a theory regarding the homeless guy but am still trying to work out how best to word it.

It was before my time on here SSleuth but whilst I have been on here you've been amenable to every other option - I mean ur still here aren't you.
AWOL has to be worth a proper "going over" - you may have all already done that on here in ur 12 threads in which case very few will want a re-hash, that I can appreciate.
I discounted it from the start but what if! It wouldn't be unusual after all it would it.
Didn't even his mum say today, wtte, that she would have preferred him alive and AWOL rather than a dire outcome.

 

[MidsummersDay]

Completely agree. There is NO Waitrose in Mildenhall (check their store locater here - I just have). There is, however, a Sainsbury's in Mildenhall.

Jeez, is it too damn much to wish the "facts" we're given are actually accurate? :gaah:

Map has now been updated, including the location of an ANPR camera which, intriguingly to me, is close to a traveller's site. :thinking:

I know the feeling. If it weren't for the fact that I've bag loads of tenacity, understanding and humility for this forum as well as it being semi anonymous, I'd be wind milling fellow sleuthers and (complete as applicable) skywards in rapid succession.
Egg on face regular+thick skin=pass the hanky and crack on regardless.


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[Northern Light]

Exactly. He told homeless guy he was walking home and gave him some food. This info came from the guy himself presumably.

Yes it was from the guy himself. Very early on in the investigation. Tony Wringe had also said a roof had been searched because it was used sometimes by homeless people, again this was very early on in the investigation.

 

[Clevercat]

- i cant think of any other way to wor d this - if a deceased person was left in the open, or even a ditch or some well in the ground, would the skeleton remains show up? that is a bit cringeworthy but there was no other way to say it. not sure what all this technology can do.

When MH370 went missing I got involved with a public satellite imagery search for wreckage through Tomnod. They run all kinds of search or mapping campaigns, sometimes looking for lone hikers lost in remote regions so I believe the technology is available to see quite small items. I don't know much about satellite technology or whether some have better capabilities than others, but when I messaged TW re this as a potential area to explore he seemed to think that the RAF had access to even better technology. Whether this can be obtained by outside agencies I have no idea.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I would think he would reverse down it, it is only one way from the NCP car park onwards but have seen council wagons reverse down.
The driver then has a choice, quick left turn into HS area past McDonald's or right down Looms Lane and left on to Northgate etc.

Why is this important if he went anywhere before the Hshoe? I'm not following this at all I'm afraid. Also I thought lorry could only access in and out via SB but I may have that wrong.

 

[lusijay]

Exactly. He told homeless guy he was walking home and gave him some food. This info came from the guy himself presumably.

Can anyone link the source for this? x

 

[PilgrimsPrayer]

The past few hours from me have been feeding two possible theories:

1- That the HS and all parties in and around could be irrelevant because there is a perfectly logical reason as to how the phone ends up in the wagon but not via HS bin. This reason is that he met somebody between 0324 and say 0415 who disposed of the phone in another Biffa bin. A prime example being the bin for the other Greggs, on a route he could have walked to a very common meeting point. The bin is then collected by the same wagon etc.

2- Secondary I will try and simplify. 450AM BM ping is not as a result of the lorry carrying the phone, it is the phone arriving earlier in BM in an "power off" state and then being turned on, at 0450. If we go with this then realistically we have a period of 0308-0450 when the phone could go to BM.
Now why do I believe this to be potential? Well simply 28 minutes is too long to get from the last possible BSE ping (Flempton area) to the first BM (Icklingham). Remember, a ping does not identify you as being in anything other than a 5 mile radius. In reality the goodbye and hello pings should only be 5 minutes apart, therefore 28 minutes is just not relevant to anything at all unless it took 28 minutes to.drive the distance from Flempton to Icklingham, but even then the departure time from HS is massively wrong The phone clearly goes to inside the BM mast but the time and method are not at all concrete and this is why the landfill was not searched.
JMO

Yep, I get what your saying....but what about the 28 minute statement? Not about 25 minutes or half an hour....but exactly 28 minutes. It's not a figure that can be concocted unless there's some semi-intelligent input afforded to its thesis. Work back from 0450 twenty eight minutes and you get a departure time of.....? (Rhetorical).
JMO


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