UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #19

[Rah]

Yes I read in an sp update that there where further pick ups at Tesco in BAarton mills I will look for the link

 

[DaveShu]

The info in the post I'm compiling suggests the phone wasn't (or wasn't just) pinging the BM mast hence my reluctance to post it has it could show SP in a bad light and they are getting a lot of grief (possibly rightly) already...

ETA: Something interesting I've just thought of linked to what I think I've worked out is the 08:00 Corrie's phone went dead. Additional to this I'm now thinking as soon as they find Corrie/Phone (or only one) there may be arrest(s).



Is that fact he made multiple pickups in/around Mildenhall? I thought it was said there was just one pickup at Sainsbury's and then to the recycling centre/WTS?

I agree re arrests - this is not an accident I think - oh God there I go again, doing that "thinking" thing - will I never learn?

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Yes I read in an sp update that there where further pick ups at Tesco in BAarton mills I will look for the link

Not heard that....Is there a Tesco in BM?

 

[Coach]

I agree re arrests - this is not an accident I think - oh God there I go again, doing that "thinking" thing - will I never learn?

I agree. With the Police about to find what they are going to find at the landfill, surely it is a really big coincidence that they have just been informed that an error was made with the weight. They have confirmed that the dispatcher will not face any charge but they have not confirmed (I don't think but please correct me if I am wrong) that the other person they questioned will not face any charge. There is the possibility that C was put in the bin, possibly the result of panic and an accident with the lorry reversing.

 

[Coach]

Why should they apologise when CM has not even been found? The appropriate time to apologise would be after an inquest and only then if failings are found.

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Do you not think that they could have found out much sooner than they did that there was an error with the weight? The fact that has taken so long as it has deserves an apology to Corrie's family..

 

[CoverMeCagney]

QUICK POLL

Corrie got in the bin himself, for a nap or to keep warm

 

[CoverMeCagney]

QUICK POLL

Corrie was put in the bin, injured or dead, by someone else

 

[Miss_French]

Part of transcript from a Q&A by Nicola: The police looked back at the previous 7 months history for that specific bin and it was always between 10 and 15 kg.

If the police are shown records, are they then supposed to assume they are false? The family may have wanted the landfill searched, but there was other/onflicting information from them; they agreed the waste procedures were correct, they said Corrie walked home to base, he would get in a car with a stranger, they organised an unofficial search for C saying he could have been hit by a car walking home from BM. I'm not knocking the family for organising this, but much of the research done by WS members has been based on what N and UT have said and presumption ono what could have happened given the environment from which C disappeared. We know very little of what the police investigation and rightly so.

 

[Ironside]

Do you not think that they could have found out much sooner than they did that there was an error with the weight? The fact that has taken so long as it has deserves an apology to Corrie's family..

I think he needs to be found first and after that it can be looked at how the investigation was carried out. Only then should an apology be made if appropriate.

 

[Ironside]

Part of transcript from a Q&A by Nicola: The police looked back at the previous 7 months history for that specific bin and it was always between 10 and 15 kg.

If the police are shown records, are they then supposed to assume they are false? The family may have wanted the landfill searched, but there was other/onflicting information from them; they agreed the waste procedures were correct, they said Corrie walked home to base, he would get in a car with a stranger, they organised an unofficial search for C saying he could have been hit by a car walking home from BM. I'm not knocking the family for organising this, but much of the research done by WS members has been based on what N and UT have said and presumption ono what could have happened given the environment from which C disappeared. We know very little of what the police investigation and rightly so.

Really good points here. The massive coverage this case got meant police received so many well meaning calls and crank calls from people all over the UK saying they think they saw CM. Any information they got had to be looked into which all takes up time.

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[Coach]

I think he needs to be found first and after that it can be looked at how the investigation was carried out. Only then should an apology be made if appropriate.

I agree that the first priority is finding Corrie but I also think that there could have been a conclusion far sooner if the error with the bin had been discovered before now.

 

[Rah]

Sorry I have searched so updates for the lorry route and can't find it I will look in to newspaper reports

 

[YachtClassic007]

Who else here thinks that SP have totally mishandled this from the beginning, and are probably still mishandling it now?

I actually spoke via electronic communication to Corries mother in December (and I have the records of the conversations), and I contacted her to tell her I didn't believe the weights that had been presented to the Police and why I didn't believe them.

Obviously her reply, undoubtedly influenced by SP was that the weights were right.

My issue now is this:

If you are asked by the Police to provide weights of bins in an investigation into a person who went missing, and whose phone travelled the same route as your bin truck...

You KNOW that some people pay by the weight of the collected trash, and you KNOW that some people pay a fixed fee based on average weights or per collection...

Presumably the data was downloaded in some form of spreadsheet, and presumably if the customer is paying on an average weight basis / per collection basis, you know that the system will present a nominal figure as the recorded weight for bill calculation purposes, then...

Would you not at that point as a company, knowing there are different payment methods and billing options, actually CHECK what deal the people who owned that bin have, check that the weight you give the Police IS in fact the actual weighed bin and not the average, and MAKE SURE that the information you have provided is accurate?

I can't believe an entire company of people who ALL know it was their truck and their bin and that the weight measurement is critical - could possibly mess that up.

And clearly, since the Police DO now have the actual weight - it WAS recorded and that information was there all along.

I don't think the Police should write it off as "accidental" that they were given the wrong data, it simply can't have been missed, surely?

The salesperson who deals with that account would know what deal they have, and it would be on the system as well, and undoubtedly numerous other people would know as well.

SP are perhaps covering their own arses by covering other peoples - this is too big a mess to be purely accidental?

I don't think the weight given to the police was an average. I also don't think it was as complicated as which payment/account method the customer was on. I think as a matter of procedure the bins were weighed. It was then up to someone in the 'office' to use the info. An account where a fixed price per bin was the contract, it wouldn't matter NORMALLY if the figure stated was 1000kgs !! but on this occasion, as you have stated, the correct figure was recorded .. I just think someone thought '110kgs for Greggs recyclable stuff' ??????? always around 10kg ... must be a mistake ...so i'll change it.

BUT what i do find very suspicious,is that the incorrect weight of the bin has been in all the press for months. Surely the person who recorded the original correct figure and the person who corrected the correct figure, would have come forward .........
that is just not right ...

 

[DaveShu]

Part of transcript from a Q&A by Nicola: The police looked back at the previous 7 months history for that specific bin and it was always between 10 and 15 kg.

If the police are shown records, are they then supposed to assume they are false? The family may have wanted the landfill searched, but there was other/onflicting information from them; they agreed the waste procedures were correct, they said Corrie walked home to base, he would get in a car with a stranger, they organised an unofficial search for C saying he could have been hit by a car walking home from BM. I'm not knocking the family for organising this, but much of the research done by WS members has been based on what N and UT have said and presumption ono what could have happened given the environment from which C disappeared. We know very little of what the police investigation and rightly so.

If the Police are shown records for a bin that is normally 11Kg, and nothing has changed, nothing has happened, there is nothing going on, then seeing 11Kg again would raise no eyebrows.

But this isn't what has happened - a person went missing, must have left in a vehicle, a bin truck was the only real option, and the phone tracked the bin truck movement - in this case the reading should NOT have been taken as correct, it was obvious it wasn't correct - like I said, I spoke to NU and told her this 3 months ago.

If I can work that out - as did many other people - without any access to the data, the people behind the data, etc, etc, etc - then why can't the bloody Police work it out until 3 months later?

 

[Ironside]

I agree that the first priority is finding Corrie but I also think that there could have been a conclusion far sooner if the error with the bin had been discovered before now.

The thing people need to remember is there are many, many families of long term missing people in the UK that never even get a conclusion.

 

[DaveShu]

Why should they apologise when CM has not even been found? The appropriate time to apologise would be after an inquest and only then if failings are found.

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These people hold a lot of responsibility and are paid a lot of money, and their mistakes are not like you in your job making a mistake - they cost the tax payer £millions of pounds, and the absorbtion of resources - unnecessarily - leads to toher crimes not being dealt with, which means those criminals can continue to cause even more havoc.

It is not unfair nor unreasonable to ask that these people who have performed so poorly in their respective jobs should be held to account.

I have no sympathy for them, if they aren't up to the task they shouldn't be in the job.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Does anyone know exactly how did they discover that a mistake had been made with the weight of the bin?

The recent BBC article states that it was human error. The article also states that SP and family discussed the landfill but at the time the main line of enquiry was that C had tried to walk back. Search will cost £500,000. SP and family are certain he will be found there. The article states £50k was collected to fund Forbes but that bit wasn't correct. The UT financial update said £13k actually IIRC. They really are convinced now that he is there, seemingly more so due to the corrected bin weight. The search itself is horrendous- they have to wear gas masks and protective clothing. No dogs as there are too many conflicting smells. They do have more hours of natural light ever day now which is a bonus and to do this in hotter or colder weather would have been pretty impossible IMO.

 

[Reallyodd]

Yes I read in an sp update that there where further pick ups at Tesco in BAarton mills I will look for the link

Interesting that you should say that because I was looking through the SP updates recently and noticed that some details seem to have been changed. Their term "loosely correlates" (with the bin lorry) doesn't seem to be there now.

 

[DaveShu]

I don't think the weight given to the police was an average. I also don't think it was as complicated as which payment/account method the customer was on. I think as a matter of procedure the bins were weighed. It was then up to someone in the 'office' to use the info. An account where a fixed price per bin was the contract, it wouldn't matter NORMALLY if the figure stated was 1000kgs !! but on this occasion, as you have stated, the correct figure was recorded .. I just think someone thought '110kgs for Greggs recyclable stuff' ??????? always around 10kg ... must be a mistake ...so i'll change it.

BUT what i do find very suspicious,is that the incorrect weight of the bin has been in all the press for months. Surely the person who recorded the original correct figure and the person who corrected the correct figure, would have come forward .........
that is just not right ...

The reason I am coming to the conclusion it was an average, or a nominal figure, is that this company did not pay by weight collected, they were on a different contract - one where they either paid by average weight, or by each collection (probably acceptable to Biffa since the business they did, and therefore weight of refuse would be pretty stable - you aren't going to see a sudden upsurge of people eating their sandwiches overnight).

Therefore, since the billing system needs to apportion charges to each client in some manner, they probably either assign an arbitrary figure of "11Kg" to these customers, or it is an average taken over a period of time - so no matter what the weight collected it will always show, at every colelction 11Kg.

As a fixed period contract they will pay a fixed price for a fixed number of collections.

But undoubtedly the actual weight will be recorded so that when the 6 month or whatever contract ends, they can calculate a new price on the average of the actual waste collected.

How else can a waste company operate when they have to pay per tonne of rubbish processed?

 

[Miss_French]

If the Police are shown records for a bin that is normally 11Kg, and nothing has changed, nothing has happened, there is nothing going on, then seeing 11Kg again would raise no eyebrows.

But this isn't what has happened - a person went missing, must have left in a vehicle, a bin truck was the only real option, and the phone tracked the bin truck movement - in this case the reading should NOT have been taken as correct, it was obvious it wasn't correct - like I said, I spoke to NU and told her this 3 months ago.

If I can work that out - as did many other people - without any access to the data, the people behind the data, etc, etc, etc - then why can't the bloody Police work it out until 3 months later?

The bin lorry wasn't the only real option. There were 4 vehicles of interest, 1 of which was the bin lorry, and 2 of the others were forensically searched.