UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #20

[Shiressleuth]

Thought this was interesting about Whatsapp. In light of the fact the London attacker is known to have sent a Whatsapp message two minutes before he drove into the pedestrians, the Home Secretary is meeting with technology firms to see what can be done about encrypted messaging

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39396578

So even if they found C's phone they wouldn't be able to see what was in any message. They would be able to see the IP address of any recipient though, I understand, though they may already have that data from the phone records alone perhaps. The point here is that maybe some of these secret apps may not be so secret in the future, if they are used a lot for illegal purposes. JMO.

 

[Taskforce88]

[FONT=&amp]Martin said: “We have guys out there in all weathers raking through tonnes of rubbish every day searching for Corrie.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]“We haven’t found him. We don’t know what happened to him and there hasn’t even been a funeral. I’m not in any mood to be thinking about singing or dancing – the thought of it is sickening.”........this man has my utmost respect. Despite his own anguish he goes to great pains to continue expressing his support and concern for those searching for his son. [/FONT]

Yep. The concert idea before he is found is very bizarre. Even if you wanted to take your mind off things you would really not be considering something like that.

Again something I cant quite put my finger on, maybe others feel the same?

 

[suzyjackson]

So even if they found C's phone they wouldn't be able to see what was in any message. They would be able to see the IP address of any recipient though, I understand, though they may already have that data from the phone records alone perhaps. The point here is that maybe some of these secret apps may not be so secret in the future, if they are used a lot for illegal purposes. JMO.

I use whatsapp and if someone had my phone and knew my lockscreen password they could read all my whatsapp messages. I don't know if whatsapp itself has a password (never thought about that before and I'm going to have a look).

I guess the reason they are saying that they might not find the messages is that they've been deleted, afaik they always exist in a readable form on the sender's/receivers device as long as they haven't been deleted.

JMO

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I use whatsapp and if someone had my phone and knew my lockscreen password they could read all my whatsapp messages. I don't know if whatsapp itself has a password (never thought about that before and I'm going to have a look).

I guess the reason they are saying that they might not find the messages is that they've been deleted, afaik they always exist in a readable form on the sender's/receivers device as long as they haven't been deleted.

JMO

You are right, if they can power up and get into his phone they'll be able to see his Whatsapp messages plus any other apps he has on there. They just can't get it directly from Whatsapp as the messages are "encrypted both ends" whatever that means. I don't think Corrie planned to go missing that night so I doubt he deleted anything, his phone is important to find out what might have happened that night IMO, he's likely to have messaged someone.

That said, I'd be surprised if he didn't try to make any phone calls to his mates, and his phone provider would have passed that info on to police by now.

 

[Amonet]

You are right, if they can power up and get into his phone they'll be able to see his Whatsapp messages plus any other apps he has on there. They just can't get it directly from Whatsapp as the messages are "encrypted both ends" whatever that means. I don't think Corrie planned to go missing that night so I doubt he deleted anything, his phone is important to find out what might have happened that night IMO, he's likely to have messaged someone.

That said, I'd be surprised if he didn't try to make any phone calls to his mates, and his phone provider would have passed that info on to police by now.

From what one of the articles said (or it might have been one of UT's updates) the police have interrogated the tower for information on Corrie's phone activity.

Whatsapp should leave some traces that there were communications, they can't wipe those out completely, but they can't see the content, and I'm not sure if they can see who the messages are to/from.

If a lockscreen password is fewer than so many characters, then that can be broken through trying multiple combinations. The Whatsapp encryption is too heavy to break it in that manner or with any existing tools, which would be a bother for security forces.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I don't use what's app but assumed it deleted automatically so that explains it better thanks. What about the dating apps? Do they save too? E.g. tinder pof grindr etc.

 

[Taskforce88]

End to end encryption means the communication cannot be intercepted or spied on in between the two users.

 

[suzyjackson]

I don't use what's app but assumed it deleted automatically so that explains it better thanks. What about the dating apps? Do they save too? E.g. tinder pof grindr etc.

I don't have any knowledge of the dating apps but I believe that snapchats are deleted after a set amount of time (24 hours?), I can't remember if we've discussed if C used snapchat. However I agree with whoever it was that said that if he was able to use his phone he's have likely have had some kind of activity that could easly be traced - texts/calls/SM posts so IMO for whatever reason he didn't use the phone because he couldn't. I still have no definite theory on why this was though

 

[CoverMeCagney]

End to end encryption means the communication cannot be intercepted or spied on in between the two users.

That was the phrase, I got is slightly wrong lol!

Do you know which other apps use this type of encryption? Obviously FB doesn't, and texts are easily recovered, but what about the dating apps and other messaging apps?

 

[suzyjackson]

That was the phrase, I got is slightly wrong lol!

Do you know which other apps use this type of encryption? Obviously FB doesn't, and texts are easily recovered, but what about the dating apps and other messaging apps?

There was a discussion about this on the radio this morning, I don't remember all the ones that were mentioned but pretty sure there is Signal and Telegram

 

[Taskforce88]

That was the phrase, I got is slightly wrong lol!

Do you know which other apps use this type of encryption? Obviously FB doesn't, and texts are easily recovered, but what about the dating apps and other messaging apps?

There is a few email providers that have end to end encryption, and some other messaging services.

I don't know any dating apps that have it, I would imagine that its very possible, privacy would be a big selling point.

Whatapp is in the spotlight because its the most popular.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

There is a few email providers that have end to end encryption, and some other messaging services.

I don't know any dating apps that have it, I would imagine that its very possible, privacy would be a big selling point.

Whatapp is in the spotlight because its the most popular.

I use Whatsapp all the time, mainly as it's free to send photos (I get charged if I attach them to texts) so I have several groups set up with friends and family for picture sharing. Also great for group messages. I think it's pretty popular across the board, I have family members on there age 14 to 72.

I have to say I though Corrie would have been found by now. They seem to be going through tonnes per day which suggests it's not a fingertip search. Just how much was dumped after"his" bin load, seems like it much have been a lot.

 

[Shiressleuth]

So I wonder if SP are able to determine if the 03.08 received text was the last ever communication from C's phone?
Would they know that for sure without physically having the phone?
Ps. I use We transfer to send photos which uses email and a link so I have a record I have sent it and when it has been downloaded. I don't know if that is encrypted though.

 

[suzyjackson]

I use Whatsapp all the time, mainly as it's free to send photos (I get charged if I attach them to texts) so I have several groups set up with friends and family for picture sharing. Also great for group messages. I think it's pretty popular across the board, I have family members on there age 14 to 72.

I have to say I though Corrie would have been found by now. They seem to be going through tonnes per day which suggests it's not a fingertip search. Just how much was dumped after"his" bin load, seems like it much have been a lot.

I remember we discussed this and worked out some estimates on a previous thread. I think that so far they are probably still working through the waste that was tipped between 24 September and the day SP first contacted Biffa which iirc was around 3 weeks later so I'm not too surprised they haven't found anything yet.

IMO because they can't be certain they will need to check it all with the same degree of care even though they can be pretty sure they aren't going to find anything until they get much further down the pile

JMO

 

[suzyjackson]

So I wonder if SP are able to determine if the 03.08 received text was the last ever communication from C's phone?
Would they know that for sure without physically having the phone?
Ps. I use We transfer to send photos which uses email and a link so I have a record I have sent it and when it has been downloaded. I don't know if that is encrypted though.

I'd be certain that SP know all tne details about traceable communications but as they don't know (afawk) what time the message received at 3.08am was sent I can't see that they can draw any conclusions about what time the very last message was sent or received. In fact there may well be messages received by the phone after C was capable of reading them, actually there must be from when the friends started to try and track him down. Not sure if that gets us anywhere, just thinking oiut loud

 

[Taskforce88]

On a side note the former head of the UK cyber defence has hit out at the government by saying that they are using the over-hyped terror threat as an excuse to spy on people.

 

[Taskforce88]

I use Whatsapp all the time, mainly as it's free to send photos (I get charged if I attach them to texts) so I have several groups set up with friends and family for picture sharing. Also great for group messages. I think it's pretty popular across the board, I have family members on there age 14 to 72.

I have to say I though Corrie would have been found by now. They seem to be going through tonnes per day which suggests it's not a fingertip search. Just how much was dumped after"his" bin load, seems like it much have been a lot.

Its a great service for messaging and calls, and its free

 

[MelmothTheLost]

So even if they found C's phone they wouldn't be able to see what was in any message. They would be able to see the IP address of any recipient though, I understand, though they may already have that data from the phone records alone perhaps. The point here is that maybe some of these secret apps may not be so secret in the future, if they are used a lot for illegal purposes. JMO.

If the messages haven't been deleted from the phone they will still be on it. I use Whatsapp for a group I joined last summer. I still have the entire group discussion for the past 8 months on the phone.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I use whatsapp and if someone had my phone and knew my lockscreen password they could read all my whatsapp messages. I don't know if whatsapp itself has a password (never thought about that before and I'm going to have a look).

AFAIK it doesn't. If you have the phone you can access the messages.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Whatsapp should leave some traces that there were communications, they can't wipe those out completely, but they can't see the content, and I'm not sure if they can see who the messages are to/from.

Each person's mobile number is attached to each message sent by whatsapp. Unless the other party is using an unregistered burner phone, he or she should be identifable from their phone number.