UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #20

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Well you are right that it seems to be the popular way, everyone can now voice their opinion publicly via social media. The police may be operating behind the scenes on info that is not in the public domain.

With N ,a police officer herself, criticising the police, a large number the social media followers will also get into that mindset.
 
What's with the over unobjective attitude towards SP ?

If you read my post correctly it said N being a officer is in much more a professional mind set than MM - a ex bin man who has no professional police experience or compass. Has his wife Trisha served either ? N knows procedure and has question many things she should have. That is no slant on MM or his wife, if you don't know differently or have the knowledge how can you question.

Again your unobjective view of SP comes into play, dismissing a mother & serving officer by re-quoting a father with no professional police experience.


One thing that perplexes me is "the lies have to stop" ? What lies ?

If that relates to public opinion on SP then the substance to shut that down as such should have came from N herself as a serving experienced officer (who has questioned SP and pushed continually SP) but N did not do that statement, neither is there any comment N in part or full that she supports her ex partners statement.

The tension this must be putting on a ex partnership probably already strained before C going missing cannot be easy for either party, but MM is almost dismissing N and her experience of police matters with praise of SP when all along N has questioned things, perhaps confusing his personal experience of N with professional police experience N.

It will be interesting if N publically supports fully or part of MM statement, dismisses or says nothing, because her past interviews/statements do not point to anywhere near the same opinion as MM. So are SP leading MM down the garden path ? N (through work) would know if they even tried, MM would not so much so, SP even reinforcing MM personal experience/opinion of N to show SP in better light than N has done previously. Manipulation.

I look forward to any future statement from N herself and its content, or lack of.

BBM - I believe MM is referring to the implication that MIS and the money raised by crowd funding have in some way helped the police.

This is totally JMO but it's the way I understood him
 
I follow you now TF. I think lack of criticism from N and visiting landfill privately is her way of drawing back from the media now. I don't know the reason for this but it looks like she is winding the media aspect down IMO, understandably.
 
I'm not really sure what you mean TF. Everyone loves to have a pop at public service these days. In this case it is too soon to judge especially, when we don't have all the facts, whereas MM and NU do.

Although I think it's fair to say that NU hasn't always had the full facts (3.08am message/not running to the HS for example)

I haven't seen any coments by MM on what he's been told
 
Martin McKeague has made considered and informative (also emotional of course) statements on his own public facebook page over these months. These are not copied here in accordance with TOS. Fortunately this last communication has been printed in MSM.
Not in it's entirety I believe but, nonetheless, an informative and emotional article.
 
BBM - I believe MM is referring to the implication that MIS and the money raised by crowd funding have in some way helped the police.

This is totally JMO but it's the way I understood him

"And for those who have sought to mislead the public to make people think otherwise [i.e. that the landfill should have been searched earlier], and openly criticised the efforts of the Suffolk police, I can tell you as Corrie's father that they should not have done this. The lies have to stop."

Seems like a direct reference to people who are trying to discredit the police.

In another crucial quote, he says they

" have been privy to a great deal of information during the course of this investigation that has not been made public since Corrie disappeared, and there were several important leads the police had to follow before this one as priorities."
 
I follow you now TF. I think lack of criticism from N and visiting landfill privately is her way of drawing back from the media now. I don't know the reason for this but it looks like she is winding the media aspect down IMO, understandably.

Everything has changed with the discovery that the bin weight was wrong. From late October three things were established that made third party involvment and hence foul play extremely likely.
1. Corrie couldn't have left on foot
2. He wasn't in the bin
3. His phone did leave, probably in the bin
It appears from the outside that the investigation didn't accelerate at that point. N, given her career, was probably aware how damaging "not knowing" could be to her well being, and evidently felt that a media campaign was needed to prompt the police into action. This seems to have worked as we saw activity stepping up in January.

Now, of course, we know that no 2. was false. And that in all probability we are looking at a tragic accident, it's no wonder that as you put it, she's "understandably" winding down the media campaign.

As for NU criticizing the police - we have to distinguish between bemoaning the lack of resources made available and critiquing the efforts that were made. I don't think it's too early for the former. It's pretty clear to me that things were being done since January that should have been done in late October (such as forensically searching the buildings Corrie could have accessed). Suggesting police resource shortages as the cause is hardly reaching:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ngerous-practices-austerity-cuts-diane-abbott
I'm not sure what MM is getting at, it strikes me as a bit of needle between exes who really don't get on.

One other thing. I've gone back to lurking here recently, and I've seen a few posts expressing disbelief that Corrie would have got in the bin. Aside from the fact that a cardboard bin could be quite clean, sleeping in bins is not just for the homeless. I'm sure these will have been mentioned here before but you have the horrific case of Garrett Elsey, a 22 year old Canadian student in Bristol:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Elsey-went-sleep-bin-crushed-death-truck.html
But the one that reminded me of this case was that of Chris Ogden in Huddersfield:
The inquest in Bradford heard Mr Ogden, who had a son, two, had fallen asleep in a club during the night out and rowed with door staff. He was caught on CCTV “staggering” in the town center and had fallen asleep while leaning on a door. Just before 5am CCTV captured him climbing on top of the skip.
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/young-man-crushed-to-death-in-bin-wagon-1-6357646
As I said, Occams razor suggests a tragic accident, but I can't help but think how ironic it would be if there was foul play, and it was only uncovered because of an investigation stepped up because a young member of staff at Biffa made a mistake.

A last thought - there's been a little outrage at recycling going to landfill, a suggestion that Biffa may have cut corners. It's really not in their interest - it costs them to dump waste in a landfill, where as they get revenue from recycling (I recently read an interesting article on how Chinese recycling firms pay better than ours, with waste being shipped there on what would otherwise be empty container ships). Also, recycling capacity is finite and requires capital investment - it won't be sized around peak supply from waste firms, but demand for the recycled product. It's inevitable that some will go to landfill.
 
Having reminded myself of the two cases above, I thought I'd have a read of reports of the inquests.

Chris Ogden
Pathologist Dr Richard Shepherd, who carried out the post mortem, said there were extensive signs typical of asphyxia on his face and body.

There were also 29 minor injuries on his upper body, mainly grazes and bruises.

He gave the cause of death as traumatic asphyxia due to the lorry's mechanical waste compression crushing his chest.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/d...death-in-bin-lorry-inquest-hears-9044758.html

Garrett Elsey
He had injuries consistent with chest compression and she gave the cause of death as “traumatic asphyxia”. She said there was no evidence to suggest he had died before the bin was tipped.

She said small ulcers in his stomach lining may have been a sign of hypothermia and that when people are hypothermic it can affect their judgment and behaviour, even causing them to take items of clothing off.
http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/inques...0048721-detail/story.html#aqrWSQwrqHwg4jxa.99

Well this would have been an undoubtedly horrific way to meet your end, I had imagined something more ... grisly. It seems that it would be quite possible for such an event to involve no bloodshed. Just a thought in relation to the van having been examined - my assumption was that there would be a substantial amount of physical evidence.
 
@carbuncle

I disagree that MIT stepped up the investigation in January. I have already cited all the early searches and the early BM and November BSE Pods . Not to mention the phone data obtained early on. To complain about lack of resources one has to have info and tbh I have seen no evidence of such a lack. Perhaps Norfolk and Suffolk ratepayers could legitimately complain as they would see the whole picture and know if their force are no longer performing in other areas. Until the search is complete I think criticism is wrong.

Regarding recycling, I have a fear that C may be in a cardboard bale for export and mentioned this when the NZ case was discussed on here. I hope that he was not in the bin, although, given the 'new' weight, that looks doubtful.
 
"And for those who have sought to mislead the public to make people think otherwise [i.e. that the landfill should have been searched earlier], and openly criticised the efforts of the Suffolk police, I can tell you as Corrie's father that they should not have done this. The lies have to stop."

Seems like a direct reference to people who are trying to discredit the police.

In another crucial quote, he says they

" have been privy to a great deal of information during the course of this investigation that has not been made public since Corrie disappeared, and there were several important leads the police had to follow before this one as priorities."

Well I wonder what that information could be that GP don't know about? Intriguing.
 
@carbuncle

I disagree that MIT stepped up the investigation in January. I have already cited all the early searches and the early BM and November BSE Pods . Not to mention the phone data obtained early on. To complain about lack of resources one has to have info and tbh I have seen no evidence of such a lack. Perhaps Norfolk and Suffolk ratepayers could legitimately complain as they would see the whole picture and know if their force are no longer performing in other areas. Until the search is complete I think criticism is wrong.

I'm well aware of the initial activity, thanks. But it doesn't alter the fact that by as early as October 10th (see the media thread) all 3 key "facts" that strongly indicated criminal action were known*. At least one activity that should have unequivocally followed shortly after didn't happen for 3 months**. If it wasn't a result of under-resourcing then it was incompetence. However, I don't like your inference that I'm not allowed a "legitimate" complaint because I'm not a ratepayer in the relevant counties, much like @Aye isn't allowed to voice his thoughts on mobile transmissions because he hasn't visited East Anglia. In any case, 62% of police funding comes from central government.

* Obviously we now know that one of the three things was incorrect
** Forensically searching the properties he could have reached in the HS and SB street - I would add other activities to this, though
 
What criminal activity are you referring to carbuncle? And since when has Aye not voiced his/her opinion or said s/he has not visited E.Anglia? For months it was said C couldn't leave H/s on foot despite SP continually saying cctv was not 100%. Suddenly it is realised you can leave the H/s and only then the request to search the other buildings and bins was made AFAIK.
 
What criminal activity are you referring to carbuncle? And since when has Axe not voiced his/her opinion or said s/he has not visited E.Anglia? For months it was said C couldn't leave H/s on foot despite SP continually saying cctv was not 100%. Suddenly it is realised you can leave the H/s and only then the request to search the other buildings and bins was made AFAIK.


BBM

I think this was just poor communication and explanation of the area. The cameras (and what they saw) never changed. If I could see the rear CSC camera view and it showed the full width of SB I would conclude nobody could leave the area on foot.

On another subject I'm a bit shocked reading what MM has had to say the last 24 hours. I hope this isn't has bad as it comes across...
 
If you look at the police updates in the media thread, SP stated several times cctv is not 100% effective in the area.
 
Are you privy to the inner workings of the police investigation? If you are not, you're just pontificating from a position of ignorance.


Yes, I've had to lead Seniors in fraud investigations who were clueless. Ignorance ? Yes 2/3 of a LLB makes someone ignorant ?? Or is that educated.
 
If you look at the police updates in the media thread, SP stated several times cctv is not 100% effective in the area.

Nothing is 100% but we don't know what context SP are talking about when they say 'area'. Could just mean no CCTV in the horseshoe itself for example. We do know that all the people and vehicles in the time frame in the area were caught on CCTV with all but two traced/coming forward. That's pretty effective.

Of course a lot of the information I base this on has come from the family/Find Corrie website so it's really interesting/worrying when MM talks about lies.....

I really do think there are more twists to come in this case.
 
Have skipped alot lol? Just a few loop holes ? But I remember having too pick my daughter up she was lost in a forest somewhere ffs I was like where are you ? Thank you Google cos I had to battle a forest. Anyway I decided there
 
Nothing is 100% but we don't know what context SP are talking about when they say 'area'. Could just mean no CCTV in the horseshoe itself for example. We do know that all the people and vehicles in the time frame in the area were caught on CCTV with all but two traced/coming forward. That's pretty effective.

Of course a lot of the information I base this on has come from the family/Find Corrie website so it's really interesting/worrying when MM talks about lies.....

I really do think there are more twists to come in this case.

He is not aiming the lies at SP IMO. It's interesting that his family reward is still open. I agree with you, more twists to come.
 
He is not aiming the lies at SP IMO. It's interesting that his family reward is still open. I agree with you, more twists to come.

Definitely not. I'm trying to be sensitive but it seems very obvious who the lie comment is aimed at. What I can't get my head around right now is why the 'who' would have to lie about anything?
 
Definitely not. I'm trying to be sensitive but it seems very obvious who the lie comment is aimed at. What I can't get my head around right now is why the 'who' would have to lie about anything?

Imo the lie comment is amed at people that have been saying that SP are incompident, and also about the landfill being searched , IMO I would think that Martin would have more information on things as he has been working with the police, N is not working so close with SP so would unlikely know all the facts, IMOIMO
 
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