Identified! UK - David Lytton, South Pennines, 'Neil Dovestone', 65-75, Dec'15

[wfgodot]

I'm convinced that it wasn't coincidence that our UID ended up there. The Moors meant something to him in some way.

snip

Yes, me too. In some ineffable way.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

snip

Yes, me too. In some ineffable way.

I agree with you both that he went there on purpose. He spent a long time going out of his way to die there, there would be much more "convenient" spots nearer London. Maybe there's a link to one of the events up there, the plane crash or the moors murders perhaps, or maybe it was just an old haunt of his.

We don't tend to work on UK unidentified cases much, maybe we should resurrect some old ones.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I just wiki'd Dovestones reservoir and started looking at the Platt family who were local and once owned property up near the reservoir, following the lineage down (via Wiki pages) I got to the Sykes family and the mention of 6 children who would have been born around the time "Neil" was. There were a few mentions of travels in India and the middle east which made me wonder if there's a connection, could our man have been born abroad? Bit of a rabbit hole but there could be a connection somehow.

The other thing of note is Memorial Tree part, there are trees planted around the area Neil died, could there be a link to that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dovestone_Reservoir

 

[meanmaryjean]

I'm going to have to vote 'no' as well. At least not by Christmas. I find it incredibly sad that this man has no one looking for him.

 

[Elainera]

I also think no id by Christmas.

Cagney that's interesting stuff you unearthed there (wiki), Why don't you send it in, maybe LE can find out more than what is publicly available about these families.

What happened to the isotope testing supposedly done in Holland? Any news from there? Does this test take long?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Similar case in the news today http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...anage-fake-suicide-attempt-inquest-hears.html

 

[dalsglen]

Do you think our faithful friend will be ID'd by Christmas? Y/N

I'll vote no. (But maybe!)

He's teaching both police and medical science a lesson by defeating their methods thus far.

Haha you do love a vote eh

At this point, id have to say no! Really thought he would have been identified months ago

Someone, somewhere should be missing this man!

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Haha you do love a vote eh

At this point, id have to say no! Really thought he would have been identified months ago

Someone, somewhere should be missing this man!

Voting for Godot?

 

[wfgodot]

Voting for Godot?

Beckett's less-successful follow-up; little-remembered.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

We don't tend to work on UK unidentified cases much, maybe we should resurrect some old ones.

Yes, we really should. We do have some interesting cases such as the headless woman found at Cockley Cley in Norfolk, and the woman known as the Nude in the Nettles found at Sutton Bank in North Yorkshire in 1981. I'm not sure how far we could realistically go with them considering the police have tended to be pretty thorough with them and revisit them fromm time to time.

 

[dotr]

Yes, we really should. We do have some interesting cases such as the headless woman found at Cockley Cley in Norfolk, and the woman known as the Nude in the Nettles found at Sutton Bank in North Yorkshire in 1981. I'm not sure how far we could realistically go with them considering the police have tended to be pretty thorough with them and revisit them fromm time to time.

Very intriguing, especially since that murder case is getting looked at again.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?299162-UK-Norfolk-Headless-woman-23-35-pink-nightdress-Aug-74&p=12468903&highlight=Cockley+Cley+%2CNorfolk#post12468903
UK - Norfolk, Headless woman, 23-35, pink nightdress, Aug'74

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?249745-UK-North-Yorks-Sutton-Bank-Jane-Doe-WhtFem-Skeletal-35-40-Aug-81&highlight=Sutton+Bank+North+Yorkshire+1981
[h=2]UK - North Yorks, 'Sutton Bank Jane Doe' WhtFem Skeletal, 35-40, Aug'81[/h]

 

[Legally Bland]

If we're thinking the location is significant, I thought I'd throw in another rabbit hole. I'm sure this article has been linked, but don't think this has been mentioned. BBM.

Close by, in Greenfield, lies the Clarence pub, built from the burnt-looking millstone grit that is used in most of Saddleworth’s older buildings. The closest pub to Dovestone reservoir, it’s popular with daytrippers, but when I drop in one spring afternoon the place is deserted save for a table of four men in their 60s, walkers sitting around their emptied lunch plates. Once the pub has cleared out, Mel Robinson, the landlord, comes and sits with me while I finish my pint.

[...]

Robinson thought about the highest accessible place nearby, and gave the man directions to Chew reservoir. Then he walked him to the door. “Past those gates,” he told him, indicating the footpath that leads to Dovestone reservoir, “that’s the easier walk.”

[...]

He [Neil Dovestone] was lying on his back, 700 metres down from Chew reservoir, at a place where the track widens to allow vehicles to pass.

[...]

More recently, in 1963, two ice-climbers were killed by an avalanche in Chew valley itself.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/may/14/mystery-saddleworth-moor-who-was-neil-dovestone

A SADDLEWORTH mountaineering legend paid tribute 50 years ago to the day that two brave climbers died in a place they call Wilderness Gully.

The bodies of Graham West, 29, of Stalybridge, and Michael Roberts, 27, from Dukinfield, were found under 20-feet of snow at the foot of the gully at Chew Brook, four miles from Greenfield in 1963.

[...]

The two were in a party of four climbing the gully. The others were John Smith and Alan Wheeler, both from Greenfield.


One of Mr West’s brothers, Tom, carried Graham’s ice axe, recovered after the avalanche, to the memorial … a silent testament to two brave men lost that fateful day at Wilderness Gully.

http://saddind.co.uk/dead-climbers-remembered/

I'm not sure I have the exact spot of the climbing tragedy, but I think it may have been close to where Neil was found. Greenfield, where he set out from, is to the West.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/W...e11dcc4ef46!2m2!1d-1.9584042!2d53.5109818!1m0

Not saying there's anything in this, though.

A couple more links on the avalanche.

http://www.doveheritage.com/avalanche/

http://smhccg.org/rock-climbing/h-graham-west/

 

[dalsglen]

Voting for Godot?

Renowned!! :laughing:

 

[CoverMeCagney]

If we can pinpoint where these events happened it might become clearer. So - plane crash, avalanche, Platt shooting, Moors Murders. Anything else?

 

[dotr]

If we can pinpoint where these events happened it might become clearer. So - plane crash, avalanche, Platt shooting, Moors Murders. Anything else?

Early on, there was speculation about a possible connection with a boxing club in the area.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

If we're thinking the location is significant, I thought I'd throw in another rabbit hole. I'm sure this article has been linked, but don't think this has been mentioned. BBM.

Not saying there's anything in this, though.

A couple more links on the avalanche.

The avalanche sounds promising. I think earlier on in this thread I guesstimated Neil's date of birth being somewhere between 1940 and 1950 based on estimates of his age. If he was born at the earlier end of that range he would have fallen between the ages of the older two who were killed and the younger ones who were not. Since there were around 100 volunteers involved in the search he might have been one of them, but I'm guessing that he would probably have had to feel very closely involved to choose to die just across the valley 50 years later.

The winter of 1962-63 is legendary for its severity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_of_1962–63_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

[dotr]

Wonder if N. Dovestone read the guide books, or even had an interest in limestone?
http://smhccg.org/rock-climbing/h-graham-west/

West was from the east side of the Pennines in Lancashire. His reputation was already established having been the leading light of this Lancastrian group pioneering numerous new routes in particular in Water-*advertiser censored*-Jolly (aka Millers Dale) and Chee Dale, where West was known for the relatively new art of artificial climbing with such routes as Mecca on Raven Tor and Big Plum in Chee Dale. Indeed, this group were pre-eminent in the exploration of limestone in Britain running against the long standing attitudes towards its unfriendly loose nature. Derbyshire limestone was indeed loose, dirty and unfriendly but all it needed was some tender loving care which the Manchester Grit boys gave it. Their activities and the publication of the West guidebook are not to be underestimated in the development of climbing throughout the UK. Tragically, Graham West was killed in an avalanche in the Pennines. It was reported in a newspaper that: ‘The bodies of Graham West, 29, of Stalybridge, and Michael Roberts, 27, from Dukinfield, were found under 20-feet of snow at the foot of the gully at Chew Brook, four miles from Greenfield on Sunday January 20th1963.’ Mike Roberts is not to be confused with Barry Roberts who made first ascents with West.

 

[Al Ka]

on another note

Plane crash survivor returns to scene after 67 years

The last living survivor of a plane crash which killed 24 people when it struck a mist-covered hill on Saddleworth Moor in 1949 has decided to return to the scene for the first time since the tragedy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36843577 (recommending to see the video too, some interesting footage)

 

[Al Ka]

Example that you do find people who use strychnine as stimulant even nowadays

A cup of strychnine can be nice

Caffeine is a molecularly similar to strychnine and acts upon the same neural receptors, which cause the latter's lethality. Oddly this makes them both in low doses stimulates.

Strychnine was taken to revise for exams, aid endurance in Olympic Marathons and prescribed by doctor as a tonic. It was the Victorian caffeine and high-energy tonic.

That is not odd: strychnine and caffeine are similar molecules.

http://www.human-existence.com/blog/?p=332

And an experiment by biochem student (skip over some tech talk there and Don't Try at home)

My field of vision expanded noticeably. Every object seemed more sharply defined, with deeper shadow variations and color vividness. I also felt like I could zoom in on far off objects. This was like going from 360p to 720p.

I began to feel jumpy, and really needed to move. So I started my run. Flying through the streets and woods was a different experience. I moved easily and everything felt bright and alive.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/3g061a/strychnine_my_experiences/

It really could be that Neil Dovestone took small dosage of strychnine to get through possible leg pain and to have enough energy for all the travel and walk up the hill. Lets remember he was an elderly man.

 

[Al Ka]

and the latest and lengthy article November 11, 2016

It was the position of the body which somehow seemed strange. The cyclist who found the man thought he looked like he was having a rest, although it was bitterly cold and the rain was torrential. The Chew Track, which runs between two reservoirs, is steep. The dead man was positioned on his back perfectly in line with the slope.

But when Detective Sergeant John Coleman saw the body, he immediately thought there was something more deliberate.
It appeared to me that the male had sat down and had taken the conscious decision to lie backwards.”

There is only a description – height 6ft 1in, white, slim build, receding grey hair, blue eyes, large nose which might have been broken.

The medicine container the man had with him was made out of clear plastic, with a white lid and in a small blue cardboard box.

There was writing in both English and Urdu.

Before the strychnine, it had originally contained thyroxine sodium – a drug used by people with an underactive thyroid.

All this time on from his death, the man on the moor is still in the mortuary at the Royal Oldham Hospita

Three post-mortems have now been carried out on the body.

The injury was a serious one – caused by “quite a significant impact fall – either from a running or standing position or a collision with an obstacle”, says Coleman. It happened in or before 2013.

These particular plates have been used by just 12 hospitals, all in Pakistan. Treu-Dynamic supplied about 500 of them each year

Analysis of the injury shows that the fracture was at the top of the man’s leg and Coleman has now been told that the particular procedure and the way the plate was attached to the bone was “very unusual – outside of the norm”.

A dental examination showed his teeth to be in poor condition, but the forensic odontologist’s view is that the work that had been carried out is likely to have been done in the UK

http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2016/11/photo-of-the-day-861/#more-281030