GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #2

[jog]

A huge well done to the jury on what must have been an awful case to sit on. I find it hard enough hearing the facts and haven't heard them live. The jury will know see all the news and social media regarding this and will certainly be able to sleep soundly at night havin reached a verdict without being aware of some of these hideous facts! Can the same be said of justice Hogg ? It was clear most of the facts were before her which she chose to ignore. It is such a pity Ellie was not allowed to speak to her to give her view although of course I am aware she wild have been deemed as to young ! The way she was removed expeditiously from the grandparents is heartbreaking and I feel so sorry for the grandparents. When you look at the pictures of grandad in 2013 to now you can see how he has aged poor man! He has lost his granddaughter , wife and by choice now his daughter but he has continued to act with such dignity !

Having seen in part the this morning interview and other interviews JG and BB conducted and yhe subsequent revelations you realise the depth of deception . The fact that JG had the second child was revealed due to her shoplifting rather than just being stopped on the motorway as she alleged. Also they denied he was father of the second child rather than social services getting it wrong with the dna and also hearing about the state of the second child when JG was arrested for shoplifting clearly shows her neglect then! Thank goodness the neighbours spoke out and those diaries were found as without them the jury would could have been fooled by his and her lies ! the judges hand were tied to an extent with regard to her sentence, he did all he could by making it consecutive but when you see her history and how deceitful she is she deserved longer! She has time when she had the second child to escape she didn't and indeed it seems was as bad as him and she has had nearly three years since Ellie's death to reflect and be away from him and think my god what a life we were leading at that time and I can now see it was so wrong but she still didn't and was holding hands with him and mouthing out I love you and high fivong him! She will have a wake up call tonight when she enters Holloway! It would appear he is used to prison in any event so will be fine !

I have some sympathy for Sutton social services who clearly had their hands tied even more so by the ruling of justice Hogg re he exoneration of BB, he could clearly fool one person but luckily not the 12 on the jury!

All of this is now immaterial, many people have to now rebuildtheir lives in particular grandad and his family and the younger child. Let's hope they can do and that younger child now gets the live she deserves and that Ellie and her nanny can now rest in peace!

I would still be interested to see the post of Sally la which was removed , if I am allowed to!

Thank you to everyone who has posted on this thread and been at court you have been brilliant

Sorry that should have said rebuild their lives not rebuke!

 

[cottonweaver]

On BB's violence etc in prison in the past ...and general threatening behaviour by both to professionals as a scare -off tactic

There are numerous incidents reported in the IMRs such as this one from Probation

describing Mr F as “uncooperative during this order and ..... he has been aggressive on at

least three occasions with three different members of staff. [Mr F] has stated clearly that he

will not talk about his private life as we are not trained psychologists. He has been a difficult

man who manipulated and directed the supervision sessions”. Throughout his years of

involvement with Probation, he was breached on many occasions for non-compliance with

court orders and returned to court, faced with alternative disposals but rarely maintained

any commitment to measures such as “Thinking Skills” or “Anger Management” that might

have helped him.
These characteristics of non-cooperation, manipulation and attempting to control others run

through the descriptions of many agencies. A number of hospital staff felt threatened and

unsafe, one to the extent of needing to be escorted to her car through fear of meeting Mr F.

Ms M and Mr F, sometimes together and sometimes separately, would be verbally

aggressive to professionals, refusing to cooperate and threatening them with complaints,

legal action, referral to their professional body and exposure in the media if their demands

were not met.

 

[cottonweaver]

Can anyone post or summarise Sally's post it was interesting but I only got to read half of it. This case has been so traumatic and harrowing to read. I feel for the jury they made the right decision. Nothing can bring that beautiful sweet girl back but justice has been done.

will pm you Leviathan, as obviously not postable.

 

[ColourPurple]

Can anyone post or summarise Sally's post it was interesting but I only got to read half of it. This case has been so traumatic and harrowing to read. I feel for the jury they made the right decision. Nothing can bring that beautiful sweet girl back but justice has been done.

I missed Sally's post . Is Sally the same person who posted while the trial was on to say she thought she might know JG from years ago but would wait till the trial ended beforre posting anything?

 

[cottonweaver]

I missed Sally's post . Is Sally the same person who posted while the trial was on to say she thought she might know JG from years ago but would wait till the trial ended beforre posting anything?

Yes CP see, doubt we can discuss it

 

[Tillymint]

Could someone PM me as well please?

 

[cottonweaver]

wow guys, the pair of them were serial complainers as well as bulliers, using their last legal team to bully also .

Several social workers experienced this behaviour, for example when a worker in the MASH sent a standard letter to Ms M and Mr F regarding Child D’s ophthalmology appointments being missed and offering help. The response was a very aggressive phone call from Mr F,followed up by an e-mail from his solicitor to Sutton Legal Services demanding an apology.

Interestingly it is noted in the Legal IMR that Mr F’s legal team could also be very demanding and their e-mails and phone calls were perceived by the Local Authority lawyers as bullying and harassing in nature. Witnesses in court have also reported on the adverse tone of questioning and were left feeling dealt with in an unprofessional manner.

Ms M and Mr F were difficult to manage as patients of the NHS, submitting multiple complaints to PALS (including 8 times by Ms M in the course of one hospital admission when she did not like being challenged about her demands for opiates and her wish not to be discharged), telling lies and giving false information.

 

[cottonweaver]

Could someone PM me as well please?

your mailbox is full Tilly- we can only give a vague impression, it was a long post , long while back.
She might come back on, IDK

I'm glad you've come back to post

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5ILmebheQx3YmhvbjVYOHlpN2M/view?pref=2&pli=1

 

[cottonweaver]

devious, both of them as individuals , playing the system, every agency

On some occasions the parents used “disguised compliance”, appearing, for example, to welcome offers of help and support from the Health Visitor who made a home visit after the children had returned home, but they then never took it up.

On other occasions such as dealing with their rent arrears and the concerns that Child D’s school had regarding the level of attendance, Mr F and Ms M would do just enough to keep professionals from escalating concerns to a higher level.

However, more often the parents’ modus operandi was openly resistant and non-compliant and they achieved some success in keeping agencies at bay. A notable example is the concealment of Child S’s existence, which but for Ms M’s criminal activity in being arrested for shoplifting, might have succeeded for much longer, and on another occasion Ms M was successful in taking legal steps to prevent the Local Authority having access to her medical information – hence some of the information in this report is likely not to have been known to the Court.

 

[Tillymint]

I only had three messages! I've deleted them. Thanks for letting me know x

 

[jog]

your mailbox is full Tilly

Could you pm me as well.

It is interesting and ironic that BB and JG weren't applying to hav e Ellie back but only the younger child who also sadly had bruising when examined! If kinky that hadn't got her back but then again maybe the younger child would have received all of BB 's rage when JG was lot around!

 

[ColourPurple]

wow guys, the pair of them were serial complainers as well as bulliers, using their last legal team to bully also .


"Ms M and Mr F were difficult to manage as patients of the NHS, submitting multiple complaints to PALS (including 8 times by Ms M in the course of one hospital admission when she did not like being challenged about her demands for opiates and her wish not to be discharged), telling lies and giving false information."

Interesting. Demanding opiates eh! Wonder if she's ever been drug tested and whether some of the admissions were for the purpose of getting opiates

 

[ColourPurple]

Could you pm me as well.

the younger child who also sadly had bruising when examined!

And JG refused permission for her to be examined. protecting wheover caused the bruises rather than protecting her own child.

 

[cottonweaver]

Heartbreaker

Grandpa tells the author of the SSRC that Ellie did not want to leave and they made it clear to the Independent SW s Ellie asked to see the Judge - ie Justice Hogg.

This is just devastating

page 29

Grandpa says that s4c ( ISWs) told him E should not have discussion on leaving for new "parents". So he thinks E thought she was going for a sleepover on the day she left them forever.

 

[cottonweaver]

And JG refused permission for her to be examined. protecting wheover caused the bruises rather than protecting her own child.

It's just appalling.
JG must have applied that face paint too.

Grandad has worse words for JG than he does for BB!!!? ( In report)

 

[ColourPurple]

Heartbreaker

Grandpa tells the author of the SSRC that Ellie did not want to leave and they made it clear to the Independent SW s Ellie asked to see the Judge - ie Justice Hogg.

This is just devastating

page 29

Oh bless her. Having watched the video of her grandad I'd just like to give him a big hug. He and his wife showed Ellie what love was and it's a travesty that they had to use up their life savings trying to keep her safe and loved, while her own parents have drained the legal aid system dry.

 

[looroll]

Hi all what was sally's post? i can't seem to see it? Lou x

 

[cottonweaver]

Hi all what was sally's post? i can't seem to see it? Lou x

aww and you were here ready and waiting from first thing.


I could only give a gist of it TBH, she might come back on Lou x

 

[Gigi-G]

Is it helping you, me pasting it up? If not I'll stop ! x

Yes it's brilliant ty x sorry fone gave up. *died* :/

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[Gigi-G]

I know I'm awful but I have just contacted Services For Children on their contact box form! "Every Child Matters" my azz.

GiGi is Justice Hogg in your Tw*tterverse? .........

http://www.servicesforchildren.co.uk/contact-us.html

I shall go a searching now I've a fresh charge

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