GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #2

[Gigi-G]

BBC 6.00pm news interesting just cause it had the school head on , he explained they were NOT allowed to contact SS, as they normally would have done in every other suspicious case. They could only treat it as an attendance issue!

It's all falling into place.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcnews

As he said "their hands were tied. The only way they could flag down something was wrong and worthy of investigation was unattendance."

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[Gigi-G]

I'm very pleased this monster was jailed I just wish it was for a whole life term this individual is very dangerous and very violent. What he and his wife did to try and cover up poor Ellie's murder is disgusting it is a great pity evil individuals are able to become parents.

Very very true.

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[Gigi-G]

I'm reading the Serious Case review now. Poor dog hasn't even been for a walk, have done very little this afternoon - chained to a laptop - how bad is that!!:facepalm:

Anyway as well as Hannah Hillman( exGF) being unwilling to testify at one point to his assaults, I'm wondering if underlined might include that family member rumour ( newspaper comment, trying to be vague, sorry)



https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5ILmebheQx3YmhvbjVYOHlpN2M/view?pref=2&pli=1

How on earth was he not already banged up for serious time..

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[Gigi-G]

about young daughter ( Gigi I know you can't do links on your phone , that's why I am pasting snippets from the pdf) everyone else reading the PDF just ignore me



BIBs we didn't know any of this stuff.

Holy moses :facepalm:

The case was bad enough before all this was brought to light.

And ty Cottonweaver for bearing with me lol

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[Gigi-G]

I'm reading the Serious Case review now. Poor dog hasn't even been for a walk, have done very little this afternoon - chained to a laptop - how bad is that!!:facepalm:

Anyway as well as Hannah Hillman( exGF) being unwilling to testify at one point to his assaults, I'm wondering if underlined might include that family member rumour ( newspaper comment, trying to be vague, sorry)



https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5ILmebheQx3YmhvbjVYOHlpN2M/view?pref=2&pli=1

Someone was asking re ex gf being pregnant... in this post . Sorry can't copy just one lil bit

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[Gigi-G]

Well I don't know about anyone else but my head is swimming. When you look over all of those RED FLAGS soooo many of them. Months and months ago!
Why the heck did SS no go and get a Legal Order to get the girls back into safety.
For such an extraordinary case. You would of thought it was one at least on the top of their cases subject to immediate effect due to child endangerment? Shhhesh!!!

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[cottonweaver]

Maybe I'm misreading it, but your post 1130.

No, you're right IDK which ex girlfriend they mean there, could be even before Hannah Hillman.

BTW that document says he has a history of 18 convictions!
Plus a history of engagement with MH services in the past BUT it doesn't give dates, it could be from 2007+ when he is "fighting for his rights". I'd have been more interested in what the Mental Health records were for prior to 2007, as he is so calculating.

 

[cottonweaver]

Holy moses :facepalm:

The case was bad enough before all this was brought to light.

And ty Cottonweaver for bearing with me lol

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Is it helping you, me pasting it up? If not I'll stop ! x

 

[cottonweaver]

I know I'm awful but I have just contacted Services For Children on their contact box form! "Every Child Matters" my azz.

GiGi is Justice Hogg in your Tw*tterverse? .........

http://www.servicesforchildren.co.uk/contact-us.html

 

[cottonweaver]

Poor poor Ellie, as late as Nov 2012 she didn't really want to leave Gramps yet

page 23 of the report

During Child D’s introductions to the parents there was a stage in early November 2012 when both Child D( Ellie) and the parents were said not to be prepared for the move, it is surprising that there was not a pause for reflection.

Arguably in any introductory programme (e.g. to adopters, birth parents or kinship carers) there might have to be a slowing of the pace in order to be sure that everyone is comfortable and committed to the placement and there can be an exploration of what might be learned from the hiatus.

S4C, however, took the view that the tensions between the parents and grandparents and the uncertainty were becoming intolerable for Child D and that delay would be harmful to the child. Even without using the benefit of hindsight this decision has to have some question marks attached to it.

 

[cottonweaver]

"What we do know is that Mr F was convicted of a serious assault on a pregnant ex-girlfriend and r[/B]eceived a prison sentence. "

page 24 of the SSRC, doesn't say whom, when, how long incarcerated.

No wonder JG lied about his abuse on herself, to protect him, he had form for it, why didn't Justice Hogg care about that particular conviction when deciding he could parent again ?

 

[flutterby]

[video=youtube;1ziSIbBPktQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ziSIbBPktQ[/video]

This Morning, from well, This Morning

 

[cottonweaver]

JG reported having been a DV victim in her first marriage to the Brazilian ( got married at age 17 as per posts upthread)

 

[jog]

No, you're right IDK which ex girlfriend they mean there, could be even before Hannah Hillman.

BTW that document says he has a history of 18 convictions!
Plus a history of engagement with MH services in the past BUT it doesn't give dates, it could be from 2007+ when he is "fighting for his rights". I'd have been more interested in what the Mental Health records were for prior to 2007, as he is so calculating.

A huge well done to the jury on what must have been an awful case to sit on. I find it hard enough hearing the facts and haven't heard them live. The jury will know see all the news and social media regarding this and will certainly be able to sleep soundly at night havin reached a verdict without being aware of some of these hideous facts! Can the same be said of justice Hogg ? It was clear most of the facts were before her which she chose to ignore. It is such a pity Ellie was not allowed to speak to her to give her view although of course I am aware she wild have been deemed as to young ! The way she was removed expeditiously from the grandparents is heartbreaking and I feel so sorry for the grandparents. When you look at the pictures of grandad in 2013 to now you can see how he has aged poor man! He has lost his granddaughter , wife and by choice now his daughter but he has continued to act with such dignity !

Having seen in part the this morning interview and other interviews JG and BB conducted and yhe subsequent revelations you realise the depth of deception . The fact that JG had the second child was revealed due to her shoplifting rather than just being stopped on the motorway as she alleged. Also they denied he was father of the second child rather than social services getting it wrong with the dna and also hearing about the state of the second child when JG was arrested for shoplifting clearly shows her neglect then! Thank goodness the neighbours spoke out and those diaries were found as without them the jury would could have been fooled by his and her lies ! the judges hand were tied to an extent with regard to her sentence, he did all he could by making it consecutive but when you see her history and how deceitful she is she deserved longer! She has time when she had the second child to escape she didn't and indeed it seems was as bad as him and she has had nearly three years since Ellie's death to reflect and be away from him and think my god what a life we were leading at that time and I can now see it was so wrong but she still didn't and was holding hands with him and mouthing out I love you and high fivong him! She will have a wake up call tonight when she enters Holloway! It would appear he is used to prison in any event so will be fine !

I have some sympathy for Sutton social services who clearly had their hands tied even more so by the ruling of justice Hogg re he exoneration of BB, he could clearly fool one person but luckily not the 12 on the jury!

All of this is now immaterial, many people have to now rebuke their lives in particular grandad and his family and the younger child. Let's hope they can do and that younger child now gets the live she deserves and that Ellie and her nanny can now rest in peace!

I would still be interested to see the post of Sally la which was removed , if I am allowed to!

Thank you to everyone who has posted on this thread and been at court you have been brilliant

 

[Tillymint]

What was Sally's post and why was it deleted? The more I read about this case,the more appalled I am that Ellie was sent back to her parents. That judge should be so mortified by her decision, she will have to live with sending Ellie to her death for the rest of her life.

 

[flutterby]

http://www.itv.com/news/2016-06-21/ben-butler-neighbour-describes-violent-and-volatile-relationship/

Interview here with a neighbour who gave evidence

 

[ColourPurple]

Poor poor Ellie, as late as Nov 2012 she didn't really want to leave Gramps yet

page 23 of the report

During Child D’s introductions to the parents there was a stage in early November 2012 when both Child D( Ellie) and the parents were said not to be prepared for the move, it is surprising that there was not a pause for reflection.

Arguably in any introductory programme (e.g. to adopters, birth parents or kinship carers) there might have to be a slowing of the pace in order to be sure that everyone is comfortable and committed to the placement and there can be an exploration of what might be learned from the hiatus.

S4C, however, took the view that the tensions between the parents and grandparents and the uncertainty were becoming intolerable for Child D and that delay would be harmful to the child. Even without using the benefit of hindsight this decision has to have some question marks attached to it.

It's madness isn't it... Ellie and her parents weren't prepared for the move, mediation between her parents and the grandparents that she'd lived with from 8 weeks old had broken down, so they decided to speed the process of Ellie going to her parents up instead of slowing it down??? That's a massive error.

 

[Lyra500]

Thankyou for this esp latter. Was thinking about her after reading Neal Gray's comments and considering what a "coincidence".

I hope Hogg is reading this, I'm sorry but we know just how fatuous her comments were previously.

WTF are they crying for - they never cried before, at any point during the days of harrowing injuries testimony.

Further evidence that the only thing they have ever cared about is themselves.

 

[Leviathan]

Can anyone post or summarise Sally's post it was interesting but I only got to read half of it. This case has been so traumatic and harrowing to read. I feel for the jury they made the right decision. Nothing can bring that beautiful sweet girl back but justice has been done.

 

[cottonweaver]

Lots on DV and often hospitals never suspecting this as a cause of her injuries and as she was going to different hospitals with these injuries, the overview & extent was not analysed.

It is recorded that Ms M had at least two terminations, possibly more, between 2010 - 2013

and suffered complications of pregnancy and other gynaecological concerns. She was also

adamant that she did not want Mr F or her family to know that she was pregnant.These

behaviours may be indicative of domestic violence as it is well researched that domestic

No-one at the time had an overview of the very high number of hospital attendances by Ms

M for injuries, and there may be others of which we are unaware. Those known included

lacerations to the legs, arms, head, bruising to the back and face, suspected broken nose,

broken ankle etc. A range of explanations was given, two being assaults by unknown

assailants, and Botox injections were said to be the cause of bruising close to her eyes.

This was one of a number of explanations for events that were accepted by the Judge.