GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #2

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

I feel the same Looroll.

Part of of what I feel is sadness for Mr Grey. Losing Ellie, his wife, and what transpired in the way his daughter let BB treat her children. I really want an enquiry or inquiry for him.

Can I ask a question of all people who have posted on this thread; is it this case that brought you here or websleuths something that you take an interest in?

I came here here just because I was so upset about this case. I first noticed it because I used to live on Westover Close. Then when I starting following the reports of the court case in the paper I just got more and more involved and sad. I had my child a few days before Elle was killed and on the day Ellie died my child had a very small procedure at St Georges. I
just cannot get past how Jennie Grey let this happen to her children.

I did noticed that in the last Daily Mail report - linked above- that Ellie used to like going to Beddington Park. It's quite close to me so I am going to take my own DC and some flowers and find somewhere suitable to put them.
 
And if there is a way of supporting Mr Grey that someone knows please can you share?

The other sad thing about this case is Ellie's sibling. What will happen as she gets older and asks questions. Are her grandad, aunt and uncle in touch with her? Will JG be allowed to see her upon her release? Although I'm still hoping that more charges will be brought against her...
 
Melanie Regan said:
And if there is a way of supporting Mr Grey that someone knows please can you share?

The other sad thing about this case is Ellie's sibling. What will happen as she gets older and asks questions. Are her grandad, aunt and uncle in touch with her? Will JG be allowed to see her upon her release? Although I'm still hoping that more charges will be brought against her...
Click to expand...

He seems to be in contact frequently with daily mail he could be contacted that way or via the officer in the case that he mentions in an interview and states was very supportive. You could also contact the family liaison police team at Sutton and ask to speak his family liaison officer to see if they would pass on messages. This is in response to the last 2 posts
 
UKgirl said:
I tried so hard to keep away from this thread, as I have just completed months of therapy due to my daughter being shaken and thrown again the wall at 6 weeks of age. But, i am feeling much better and if I can, try and help with some of the court proceedings and crimnal trial that i encountered. I may be able to fathom some of the CPS proceedings. This case is so close to my heart, my daughter is a survivor and in my care. But, it took me a very long terrible year to get her back. It seems to me that this judges huge error cost this little girl her life. Why? I do not know. She should never have been returned to her parents. The only problem is with the UK is SBS is such a taboo subject and one that alot of the country does not understand. There is alot of if, buts and maybes. Mine is slightly different as her perp admitted the truth even though he pled non guilty at his trial. But, I have some friends who have had no justice and the time served is a joke. My daughters attacker got 6 months in prison for destroying the life she had. Anyway, I hope finally he stays behind bars, where he should have been in the first place.
Click to expand...
Oh my gosh. *soft hugs*
Welcome to WS. It is great you joined.. is always nice to welcome new members it brings a fresh mind to the Thread.
I cant imagine to understand how you felt/feel. I just hope that by opening up on here you can unburden yourself being able to talk about your experience or just add general input on the posts. We are a great bunch of people here im sure you will find yourself a very warm welcome. 😊

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
 
Tortoise said:
Not finished reading the judgement yet but I am surprised to read that the experts agreed - after Ellie's death and examination of her brain - that her head injury at 7 weeks old was an impact injury and not a shaking injury.

I'm feeling so massively angry and sad for those children. What did they suffer.
Click to expand...
Im totally shocked and doubly annoyed at the fact that these two spineless individuals brought children into this world for their own gain. As in monetary. As there doesnt seem an awful amount of genuine love. Apart from Nan and grampy Gray.
The fact that those two vile people done the worst to those babies. And lead almost a double life. Gosh. Something youd see on a hollywood screen.
The thousands spent from the public purse. At HIS say so. O M G. Makes my blood boil.

Heres hoping to No appeals approved. I think JG needs a stay after her sentence. In a residential mental health unit. After all she will be alone once her times served.

And thankyou All. Everyone of you here for such fabulous support. You done an amazing job. 🤗👍

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
 
Tortoise said:
I'm trying to understand the psychology of BB.

Why fight these convictions?

He's always been violent with adults, doesn't seem to be an issue for him whether it's a man, or a woman, and it's obvious now that he can't seem to resist beating the *advertiser censored* out of a pregnant woman.

As an aside, I would dearly love to know why pregnancy, a time of extra vulnerability for a woman, and something that usually evokes a need in others to extend or afford additional care and protection, seems to evoke a greater amount of violence in abusive men.

But anyway, he doesn't seem unduly perturbed by, or have a need to deny these other frequent violent assaults on adults, even if he does want to offer excuses for it, such as the person deserved it. He denied his abuse of JG but I think that was more to support JG's position and (absurd) claims in the trial, because they needed to work as a team rather than against each other. Still then, he couldn't resist saying she provoked him.

So why, when it comes to his children, does he see a need to fight the accusations and convictions?

I don't believe it's conscience.
He clearly did not want to be a father or have a family life - so it wasn't to have them with him.

Is it because everyone accepts that adults can be viewed as equals - we can blame other adults to an extent for not protecting themselves (JG could have left him for instance, other people could have refused to engage in fights with him) but children can not be blamed ever for violence against them. He can't justify to anyone deliberately hurting a child. The child has no choice.

So is the concept even too heinous for him to admit to himself? Is that why he went to those lengths for 6 years, and will try again, to clear his name? His last sentence for shaking Ellie when she was a baby was hardly a long one, so I don't think it's the punishment he can't handle. He even spent 3 years inside for the robbery.

He knows he did it, so there is no inner delusion going on. So why does he not care about being violent to adults but does care about being violent to children? Has he shattered his own self-image? Maybe there is a clue in the way he spoke about the perverts he was incarcerated with before.

So somewhere in his mind he has exceeded his own boundaries of evil. He just can't reconcile himself to attacking small defenceless and blameless children. The fact that he has and started probably on a few weeks old baby, and did nothing to walk away from the home where he was meting out such terror, I feel is more to do with external expectations and image, than to do with castigating himself.
Click to expand...
Umm. Where do you start.
He does have. Several 'ologies' as in psychotic, etcetcetc. But its layered.
And in the most obvious part. He IS the controller. Any time any where. If you looked at him n he thought you were staring to provoke. He'd launch at you.
He's Metrosexual. Narcissistic,
I would throw a flag out here and say he is also on the Autistic spectrum. Which would lay the way for the adhock ramblings his brain would work.
As it seems to override when a situation presents itself. ADHDers are similar also. And.......they can switch on and off. Like nothing had happened.. worryingly.
Very much like living in a parallel world.
Mix ALL that together. Becuz he's never been given the mental tools to help him find to control it.
A living time bomb.
He had a hard time sleeping... most ADHDers do. Its hard to switch off your brain. Deprivation of sleep can also trigger rage.
Now im not giving him excuses. Im just breaking down his personality traits. Imo

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
 
Gigi-G said:
Umm. Where do you start.
He does have. Several 'ologies' as in psychotic, etcetcetc. But its layered.
And in the most obvious part. He IS the controller. Any time any where. If you looked at him n he thought you were staring to provoke. He'd launch at you.
He's Metrosexual. Narcissistic,
I would throw a flag out here and say he is also on the Autistic spectrum. Which would lay the way for the adhock ramblings his brain would work.
As it seems to override when a situation presents itself. ADHDers are similar also. And.......they can switch on and off. Like nothing had happened.. worryingly.
Very much like living in a parallel world.
Mix ALL that together. Becuz he's never been given the mental tools to help him find to control it.
A living time bomb.
He had a hard time sleeping... most ADHDers do. Its hard to switch off your brain. Deprivation of sleep can also trigger rage.
Now im not giving him excuses. Im just breaking down his personality traits. Imo

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Well we may all say this but if you look at his and her evidence and indeed the comments they made to the school etc , they both knew how a child should be brought up and what they should say to satisfy people they were being brought up the right way but chose not to do that . This makes the situation worse because they did know what was right and wrong and chose the wrong way. So we could have said well Bb and JG had been brought up the same bad way themselves so knew no different way of life but that is not the case at all. It would seem that JG as a child had a lovely childhood as her parents them tried to continue with Ellie . She for sure knew what was happening was not right. He I understand grew up with some violence between his parents but not to that extent and by his comments knew that nobody would condone violence to children he also made the comment about how he was cross with JG for rejecting Ellie in Jan when she showed JG a picture she had drawn and JG dismissed it and he knew how difficult it was for the girls who were still crying for their foster parents. So again knows he should have empathy bit clearly by the tests we have seen. He had hospitalised JG and already not sent eliiebto school So whatever their issues they both knew clearly how children should be brought up but chose for their own selfish reasons not to do so . JG is still I'm complete denial of her role and still protesting she should not be in prison. She can't appeal really as she pleaded guilty to perverting which is what gave her the prison sentence so I do t think we will hear further from her as her sentence wasn't one which the court of appeal would alter. So it all depends on him. He has thing to lose by fighting the case and has 25 years or life to do Just as an aside I do t know where JG was living after they got charged and he was remanded maybe someone who attended the court may know , but she clearly has some friends that haven't been mentioned because they are sending her own clothes into the prison . Still on watch by the prison wardens and no prisoner is allowed near her. Apparently on prison they get newspapers but all cases that could result in somebody being brought into that prison are cut out of the newspaper so the inmates don't recognise them. Unfortunately for her they all knew who she was as her face had been all over tv . Many women want to get to her and she at the moment being kept very safely out of the way
 
jog said:
Well we may all say this but if you look at his and her evidence and indeed the comments they made to the school etc , they both knew how a child should be brought up and what they should say to satisfy people they were being brought up the right way but chose not to do that . This makes the situation worse because they did know what was right and wrong and chose the wrong way. So we could have said well Bb and JG had been brought up the same bad way themselves so knew no different way of life but that is not the case at all. It would seem that JG as a child had a lovely childhood as her parents them tried to continue with Ellie . She for sure knew what was happening was not right. He I understand grew up with some violence between his parents but not to that extent and by his comments knew that nobody would condone violence to children he also made the comment about how he was cross with JG for rejecting Ellie in Jan when she showed JG a picture she had drawn and JG dismissed it and he knew how difficult it was for the girls who were still crying for their foster parents. So again knows he should have empathy bit clearly by the tests we have seen. He had hospitalised JG and already not sent eliiebto school So whatever their issues they both knew clearly how children should be brought up but chose for their own selfish reasons not to do so . JG is still I'm complete denial of her role and still protesting she should not be in prison. She can't appeal really as she pleaded guilty to perverting which is what gave her the prison sentence so I do t think we will hear further from her as her sentence wasn't one which the court of appeal would alter. So it all depends on him. He has thing to lose by fighting the case and has 25 years or life to do Just as an aside I do t know where JG was living after they got charged and he was remanded maybe someone who attended the court may know , but she clearly has some friends that haven't been mentioned because they are sending her own clothes into the prison . Still on watch by the prison wardens and no prisoner is allowed near her. Apparently on prison they get newspapers but all cases that could result in somebody being brought into that prison are cut out of the newspaper so the inmates don't recognise them. Unfortunately for her they all knew who she was as her face had been all over tv . Many women want to get to her and she at the moment being kept very safely out of the way
Click to expand...
Thankyou Jog. Made me think and delve even deeper. I really want to know now. What why and how does the human psych gravitate so low for them to know right from wrong in a case like this. As their backgrounds especially JGs are all we all expect from childhood. Whereas I'm not 100% sure but didnt BBs have a bit of a diverse childhood with alcohol and some?
Also, its not always ones childhood thats the sticking point. If you have had children you will of noticed that, on entering Nursery/playgroup, then Primary school, then Secondary school. At each point you will notice a difference in your child. Because they have 'widened thier social circle'.
So they 'learn' different traits/reactions/ actions. And not always positive ones.
So while JG will have a homelife of positive affirmation BB may of not been so positive. And he always got a reaction from a negative. So .... the seed was sown.
Dont get me wrong. He was quite the intelligent one. JG too. Altho we learnt from an old acquaintance of JGs in her teens who put up a post in here long enough for us to read. And removed for her privacy to remain so. Let us just say. JG would go out of her way to get a partner. Even if that someone was with somebody.
And when that someone realised how suffocating her demands could be and how poisoning her words were. Left that somebody to move to a different place to live. As far away as he could.
Gives you an inside to why JG didnt leave him.
I supposed in an adhock way. In this relationship they truly did deserve each other. I just so wished JG hadnt tried to keep him tied to her, using the most precious to bribe him with her giving him children.
That really does say it all. The children meant no more to them than that Jack Russell puppy did. And that is an awful thing to say i know. But thats the impression I get.
As for JG having some friends. Its more likely a Social worker. She was probably in a 'halfway house' where her items were taken too. And larger stuff were stored afer the cleansing team had been in to do a deep clean. It could also be a family member. JG had sisters I believe. I doubt it is but you never know. More than likely is a SW. Or a Probation Officer. As she will be alotted one in Prison. To liase between her and the outside world.

Also Jog. Just a thought. She would have to sign the Sexual Offender's Register?

All this is moo btw

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
 
Gigi-G said:
Thankyou Jog. Made me think and delve even deeper. I really want to know now. What why and how does the human psych gravitate so low for them to know right from wrong in a case like this. As their backgrounds especially JGs are all we all expect from childhood. Whereas I'm not 100% sure but didnt BBs have a bit of a diverse childhood with alcohol and some?
Also, its not always ones childhood thats the sticking point. If you have had children you will of noticed that, on entering Nursery/playgroup, then Primary school, then Secondary school. At each point you will notice a difference in your child. Because they have 'widened thier social circle'.
So they 'learn' different traits/reactions/ actions. And not always positive ones.
So while JG will have a homelife of positive affirmation BB may of not been so positive. And he always got a reaction from a negative. So .... the seed was sown.
Dont get me wrong. He was quite the intelligent one. JG too. Altho we learnt from an old acquaintance of JGs in her teens who put up a post in here long enough for us to read. And removed for her privacy to remain so. Let us just say. JG would go out of her way to get a partner. Even if that someone was with somebody.
And when that someone realised how suffocating her demands could be and how poisoning her words were. Left that somebody to move to a different place to live. As far away as he could.
Gives you an inside to why JG didnt leave him.
I supposed in an adhock way. In this relationship they truly did deserve each other. I just so wished JG hadnt tried to keep him tied to her, using the most precious to bribe him with her giving him children.
That really does say it all. The children meant no more to them than that Jack Russell puppy did. And that is an awful thing to say i know. But thats the impression I get.
As for JG having some friends. Its more likely a Social worker. She was probably in a 'halfway house' where her items were taken too. And larger stuff were stored afer the cleansing team had been in to do a deep clean. It could also be a family member. JG had sisters I believe. I doubt it is but you never know. More than likely is a SW. Or a Probation Officer. As she will be alotted one in Prison. To liase between her and the outside world.

Also Jog. Just a thought. She would have to sign the Sexual Offender's Register?

All this is moo btw

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

JG does have a sister who hAs disowned her according to grandfather so don't think she has helped and social services don't cover this so not sure who is helping her !. No he or she won't have to sign on the Sex offenders resister as their convictions don't relate to this. Let's hope she doesn't come out and have more children although from the evidence given she can't have anymore due to something he did to her?
 
jog said:
JG does have a sister who hAs disowned her according to grandfather so don't think she has helped and social services don't cover this so not sure who is helping her !. No he or she won't have to sign on the Sex offenders resister as their convictions don't relate to this. Let's hope she doesn't come out and have more children although from the evidence given she can't have anymore due to something he did to her?
Click to expand...
Ahh right yes I remember now about her sister.
She will of had someone appointed from Legal Services. Or someone from the Council Health Team. Will sort out everything. As in Sanitising the appartment. Boxing up personal belongings and putting those into a long lease storage facility.
From what I'm led to believe. She will be segregated from the main stay of inmates. And on suicide watch. As per any detainee with MH issues.
And will no doubt be on prescriptive medication as soon as she has been adequately assesed by the NMH Team
she's actually in the same Prison as Shauna Hoare. Im led to believe. As some of us covering this case. Did also cover Becky Watts. Altho SH's case was a well different scenario and I dont think they two would mix.
Anyhow Ms Gray might think she
is too upper class to mix with the likes of many of her co habitees. Lol.
Thanks for yr help Jog ive not been around too much. Sorry if you think how rude ive been.. running tests after tests. X rays crt mri sonographs pints of blood.. taken not given. I feel like a tea bag.. and more again tomorrow im quite exhausted. .need to get to the bottom of the lumps and pains in my hands. Find it hard you see to grip. I rest my fone on a pillow on my tummy at the moment to use it for a while. N ive just managed to catch up with emails etc etc blah blah. I trust you and everyone else here is good... sending you all soft hugs. (((Hug)))

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
 
I followed the Poppi Worthington case too, it was terribly tragic that mistake after mistake happened and now another similar story.

I assume this new case with Craig Beattie was held in relation to other children now in care ?

This then reported today , another mum & dad arrested on suspicion of killing their 8 month old.

What is wrong with the world we live in that these things keep happening again and again?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...picion-murder-death-eight-month-old-baby.html
 
Hello all,

Hope you are all well.

Did anyone else think of Ellie this week?

Three years since her death. Not long at all really.
 
The original trial thread was one of the most difficult reads i have experienced. Inflicting injury upon injury on this child is incomprehensible and i feel no shame in admitting that being male and in my mid forties was no barrier to many tears flowing forthwith.

If there is a heaven Ellie will definitely be there. With Gods arm resting on her shoulder.
 
Melanie Regan said:
Hello all,

Hope you are all well.

Did anyone else think of Ellie this week?

Three years since her death. Not long at all really.
Click to expand...

I have to say I have very much thought about it! It was a very disturbing case for me and I still look at the pictures occasionally of Ellie when she had maybe just gone to the parents and so still looked so happy and cared for due to her grandparents. My thoughts are still with her family especially her grandfather and I hope as far as it can be , life is a little easier for him. I also hope the sister who I will not name, is receiving all the care and help that she needs to get over the terrible experience ! Time can never change the past but it can help to heal the wounds and I sincerely hope that for all involved bar the parents that it does! RIP young Ellie and have a happy life little sister !
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 160 more.
Total: 1,881 (members: 161, guests: 1,720)

Online statistics

Members online
161
Guests online
1,720
Total visitors
1,881
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
600,591
Messages
18,110,921
Members
230,992
Latest member
Clue Keeper
Back
Top