GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #11

[Tortoise]

Hopefully will be on catch up soon

Here's the link for anyone ( like me ) who missed it


http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08f4j5j#play

It's this one I think Alyce from 1 hr 34 mins in

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08f4mb1

 

[Alyce]

Searching for something and came across this news report.

I realise they become repetitive, but I found this one a decent read if anyone interested.

. http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/helen-bailey-murder-how-killer-12640741

That line about - he paid for flyers -

I am fairly sure ( can't prove it now as the FB page was taken down ) that a local print company offered to do the flyers for free.
In any case, even if they did not, the flyers would have cost him max £40

 

[jessie]

Cos he's a tightwad through and through

But don't forget "He paid for flyers"

As this was brought up at his trial he must have thought the jury would be overawed by his generosity there. :gaah:


eta oops Alyce xx

 

[Tortoise]

Mm, thought provoking as Michelle said.

Maybe to prevent the circus of the convict who acts up during sentencing they could impose a loss of privileges.

They were talking about the instance where because the sentence was so long anyway, there was nothing the judge could do about it.

Loss of visiting rights is one idea.

 

[Tortoise]

In the trial where I served on the jury the defendant went berserk in the dock when the verdict was read out. He had to be bundled to the floor and physically restrained by a whole troop of prison guards. It was a shocking experience, and he was carried out horizontally with his head pushed down. The mother of the victim became hysterical herself at witnessing this, and couldn't stop herself from shouting and screaming what she thought of him, so she had to be removed from the court too.

But he did turn up for sentencing and remained quiet throughout.

 

[cheeseman]

Mm, thought provoking as Michelle said.

Maybe to prevent the circus of the convict who acts up during sentencing they could impose a loss of privileges.

They were talking about the instance where because the sentence was so long anyway, there was nothing the judge could do about it.

Loss of visiting rights is one idea.

A damp afternoon in the village stocks would be another...

 

[DollyDiamond]

But correct me if I'm wrong - didn't Helen's friends and family have very little opportunity to get to know him? He made sure of that.

'If only's' aren't always logical but they are a natural response by loved ones to a tragedy like this. If Helen put her stamp of approval on IS and intended to marry him, it was very difficult for anyone to rain on her parade and express reservations about him and his motives. Hindsight's a wonderful thing and no one could have known even a fraction of his true nature and - if he had killed Diane - his history. But certainly the speed with which they got together may have rung alarm bells with some of her nearest and dearest and if they were aware of her changing her will in his favour before they were even married, it may have provided a clue that he was manipulating her behind the scenes.

One of the big themes of Planet Grief was personal safety for widows/widowers embarking on the dating scene and Helen specifically mentioned keeping details of your finances guarded. Yet within only a year of meeting IS, she asked him to witness her will which revealed she was worth well over £3 million! Her defences were entirely down with this man. Then he set about persuading her to change the will to favour him, with manipulative pleas about how worried he was about the future security of himself and his 'boys', and his murder plans proceeded apace.

The fact that so many of her friendships lapsed after he came on the scene (including it seems with her dear brother John, who stated he only visited her twice at the Royston house) is one of the biggest red flags of all.

 

[cheeseman]

In the trial where I served on the jury the defendant went berserk in the dock when the verdict was read out. He had to be bundled to the floor and physically restrained by a whole troop of prison guards. It was a shocking experience, and he was carried out horizontally with his head pushed down. The mother of the victim became hysterical herself at witnessing this, and couldn't stop herself from shouting and screaming what she thought of him, so she had to be removed from the court too.

But he did turn up for sentencing and remained quiet throughout.

Bloody hell, they'll be arguing that they shouldn't turn up for the verdict next. It's ridiculous. If they can't behave, put them in Robert Maudsley's enclosure, maybe with Robert still in it (if he's still alive).

 

[cheeseman]

'If only's' aren't always logical but they are a natural response by loved ones to a tragedy like this. If Helen put her stamp of approval on IS and intended to marry him, it was very difficult for anyone to rain on her parade and express reservations about him and his motives. Hindsight's a wonderful thing and no one could have known even a fraction of his true nature and - if he had killed Diane - his history. But certainly the speed with which they got together may have rung alarm bells with some of her nearest and dearest and if they were aware of her changing her will in his favour before they were even married, it may have provided a clue that he was manipulating her behind the scenes.

One of the big themes of Planet Grief was personal safety for widows/widowers embarking on the dating scene and Helen specifically mentioned keeping details of your finances guarded. Yet within only a year of meeting IS, she asked him to witness her will which revealed she was worth well over £3 million! Her defences were entirely down with this man. Then he set about persuading her to change the will to favour him, with manipulative pleas about how worried he was about the future security of himself and his 'boys', and his murder plans proceeded apace.

The fact that so many of her friendships lapsed after he came on the scene (including it seems with her dear brother John, who stated he only visited her twice at the Royston house) is one of the biggest red flags of all.

I think you've hit the nail on the head here - rather than people like that horrible JSP condemning Helen for being dumb/ naive, this whole case should serve as a warning that even the sharpest, best informed people, are able to be taken in by dangerous psychos like IS.

The surprising thing about IS is how bad an actor he appeared to be during the police arrest and interviews. I can only assume that he was completely out of his depth at this stage and overdoing the acting.

 

[Alyce]

Mm, thought provoking as Michelle said.

Maybe to prevent the circus of the convict who acts up during sentencing they could impose a loss of privileges.

They were talking about the instance where because the sentence was so long anyway, there was nothing the judge could do about it.

Loss of visiting rights is one idea.

Yep, am sure there is plenty they could do with loss of privileges.

And, although I understand what they were saying about having to physically bring the convicted person to court - long journey, might cause havoc on the way, as well as in the dock - I don't see the same level of disruption for a video link.

Within the prison there should be enough staff to escort IS to the relevant room and ensure he sits and listens to the Judge.
Plus, if he did scream and shout, they could quickly turn off the link and he is instantly removed from view of the court.

 

[LozDa]

One of the big themes of Planet Grief was personal safety for widows/widowers embarking on the dating scene and Helen specifically mentioned keeping details of your finances guarded. Yet within only a year of meeting IS, she asked him to witness her will which revealed she was worth well over £3 million! Her defences were entirely down with this man.

RSBM - You've just hit the nail on the head regarding manipulation and fraud. We've all read the stories of the women who are groomed by Turkish men and think 'How stupid!', but it happens again and again. Some of these women aren't stupid by a long shot and yet, even knowing the other stories, they still think they are different. When you're on the inside and you feel like you know someone, you can't imagine you need to take the same precautions. I look at my family and partner and trust them entirely. My partner knows my passwords, what's in my bank, everything. Luckily, the fact that there's nothing in my account stops me worrying too much But I don't even really think to question it. When we look from the outside we wonder how she could've been so open to this. But from the inside, I'm absolutely positive it wasn't predictable.

I have a personal story (relating to my partner) that is so similar to Helen's that it is one of the reasons I feel so close to this case. If anyone wants to know about it, I'm happy to divulge in private message, but I don't feel comfortable putting it on a public forum (especially as it's not entirely my story to tell). But it's an interesting inside look at how situations like this happen, even when you're pretty wise to it.

 

[SweetCinnamon]

Once read that prisoners with long sentences/lifers were admitted to the prison hospital first to sort out medication issues and probably to prescribe some kind of psychotropic drug/sedative. To ensure a quiet prison! He will also be able to sanction who on the outside can telephone or email him. Calls are booked and taken on a public phone which is listened into. All mail is censored and must never contain mention of the case or the victim. Sick and disabled prisoners are paid a small weekly sum which is less than that for working prisoners, most work or take educational classes to escape tedium. It's best to not mention the offence committed. But he may be a 'rule 43' prisoner which possibly means his only society will be amongst sex offenders/mentally ill. Which he deserves. It's a monotonous regimented boring life with the constant threat of violence. There is medical care but it's not top notch! Officers are usually good at spotting attention seekers but sometimes there are mistakes and prisoners die. Few commit crimes as terrible as his so that's sad. As to 'always a danger to women' that puts him as a Cat A for sure.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Joely 123]

That's a great interview but I think the CPS chap is wrong about why he murdered Helen before the wedding - I think it was just to save money on the ring + wedding.

And possibly being under the scrutiny of all the people in Helen's life who loved HER so much when he prefers to hide inside his devious shell.

 

[Joely 123]

Has anyone else got a Jeremy Vine allergy, or is it just me?

:laughing:

On a different note, I thought I would sum up the documentary for our friends abroad:

Thanks! Lozda - but NO THANKS ​whilst I choke on my Chocolate Digestive x

 

[Joely 123]

Everyone who loves you misses you. Whatever has gone wrong, everything can be sorted. Please get in touch, to let us know you are safe.


Nope, not IS, this is a quote from one of Helen's Electra Brown books

The b ..steward wants to steal everything of Helen's - plagiaristic murder.

 

[Joely 123]

Silently places this here...

That's the best laugh of the day .. (maybe the only one) .. what a baffoon he looks. (You're under Arrest - oh let me fix my hair and look casual).

 

[Joely 123]

Good thinking Dolly. Do you think they would have got to them that quickly though? I can't remember, was the footage from verdict day or sentencing day?

Verdict day when we last saw Jamie and Oliver. I have a feeling it was only John B on Sentencing day.

 

[icemaiden65]

Searching for something and came across this news report.

I realise they become repetitive, but I found this one a decent read if anyone interested.

. http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/helen-bailey-murder-how-killer-12640741

That's the local evening paper for Newcastle and surrounding areas - including Ponteland where Helen lived as a child/teenager.

I still shudder when seeing IS unshaven - what an evil look he has about him.

Was thinking about Helen whilst driving around this afternoon catching up on errands etc. and for some reason my mind keeps going back to the actual moment he pounced to smother her. I pray she was totally unaware of what was happening and can't imagine the horror she would have felt if she knew, even for a short time, that he was hell bent on murdering her.

 

[faybradshaw]

Want to say thank you to everyone for your posts since the verdict. Have been indisposed since then with an allergic reaction to something with a rash over most of my body which I still have!
But wanting you all to know, am getting great satisfaction imagining IS in prison now!

 

[jessie]

That's the best laugh of the day .. (maybe the only one) .. what a baffoon he looks. (You're under Arrest - oh let me fix my hair and look casual).

One of his nervous tics I suppose. Doesn't he also do this in one of the vids when he is interviewed in the house slouching in the armchair ?