GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #11

[ColourPurple]

“It was a way of continuing the love from Diane on to Helen. Helen never told anyone that I don’t think, because most people wouldn’t understand that

Re the recycled ring

I'm gonna correct IS's words there...

Helen never told anyone that I don’t think, because ... it was complete BS that I just made up

 

[ColourPurple]

It's been suggested before, but if she DID have epilepsy and was taking medication for it, he could have tampered with it so that she wasn't actually getting the drug she needed.

Yes, wouldn't put it past him. also wouldn't put it past him to stand passively and just do nothing if she was having a genuine fit. Then call the ambulance once he thought it was too late.

 

[Squamous]

It would never occur to me to put something in the local paper if my hubby died. I'm 20+ years younger than IS but I doubt very much my mum would do it if my dad died either. Seems unnecessary and old fashioned to me.

 

[Squamous]

Re the recycled ring

I'm gonna correct IS's words there...

Helen never told anyone that I don’t think, because ... it was complete BS that I just made up

Or indeed, "Helen never told anyone that I don't think, because giving my new fiancée my dead wife's ring was creepy and wrong and she knew it".

 

[ColourPurple]

It would never occur to me to put something in the local paper if my hubby died. I'm 20+ years younger than IS but I doubt very much my mum would do it if my dad died either. Seems unnecessary and old fashioned to me.

It's always just been the done thing amongst my family and friends. Maybe it varies from family to family.

 

[JudgeMental]

Yes, wouldn't put it past him. also wouldn't put it past him to stand passively and just do nothing if she was having a genuine fit. Then call the ambulance once he thought it was too late.

Well, yes. Except she doesn't seem to have died of an epileptic fit, and I imagine that if she had done, that would have been on the death certificate. Instead it records this mysterious "sudden unexplained death in epilepsy".

All we know is that she died very suddenly - not in her sleep but presumably while she was going about her normal business. Is there any account, anywhere, of what actually happened to her (e.g. whether she had a fit, whether she collapsed, whether she simply stopped breathing or whatever)?

 

[Squamous]

It's always just been the done thing amongst my family and friends. Maybe it varies from family to family.

Perhaps so. I would ask my mum but I think she's still recovering from me demanding via Facebook message to know what she and dad want done with their ashes once they've died (inspired by a chapter in Helen's book).

 

[Rayemonde]

Yes, wouldn't put it past him. also wouldn't put it past him to stand passively and just do nothing if she was having a genuine fit. Then call the ambulance once he thought it was too late.

You don't normally need to call an ambulance if someone with epilepsy has a seizure. However, you are supposed to clear their airways and put them in the recovery position... If Diane was unconscious after a seizure, it would have been simple for IS to move her head so she suffocated against something, or even put her in a chokehold and kill her without leaving any marks



https://www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/firstaid

 

[ColourPurple]

Well, yes. Except she doesn't seem to have died of an epileptic fit, and I imagine that if she had done, that would have been on the death certificate. Instead it records this mysterious "sudden unexplained death in epilepsy".

All we know is that she died very suddenly - not in her sleep but presumably while she was going about her normal business. Is there any account, anywhere, of what actually happened to her (e.g. whether she had a fit, whether she collapsed, whether she simply stopped breathing or whatever)?

I agree it doesn't look as if there even was a fit, and with IS as the only witness all reports of what happened are going to stem from his version.

 

[Tiny]

just cause I passed by this evidence a minute ago...

think it was icemaiden ( not sure , sorry) pointed out the diff between the BBourn house sale 530 K and figures given by IS during testimony and another member then replied re legal expenses. ( too many pages back to go hunting now , sorry)

I posted about the different amounts 😋

 

[Tiny]

Someone else has picked it up, though.


Nice one!



Is that hack Boris Johnson's sister?

yep they are brother and sister - together you can see a strong family resemblance.

 

[jessie]

It would never occur to me to put something in the local paper if my hubby died. I'm 20+ years younger than IS but I doubt very much my mum would do it if my dad died either. Seems unnecessary and old fashioned to me.

Seems in my area certainly that the undertakers suggest and help with this. It informs people of the death and lets them know when and where the funeral is. jmo.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Sorry about personal details, didn't want anyone to think I'm 'doing
An Ian Stewart'!


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I am sure nobody thinks that. Sometimes it is useful to have first hand information about a disease if it crops up during a case we are sleuthing. I am sorry you have health problems and I am sure everyone here wishes you well.

I have Myasthenia Gravis so it was useful, I hope, to explain what a sufferer experiences. Ian Stewart has MG and I personally think he has quite a severe form BUT he milks his disease for all it is worth by saying how disabled he is. I know that if he takes his medication as he should he could cope reasonably well but that is not what he wants us to believe.

 

[Cherwell]

It would never occur to me to put something in the local paper if my hubby died. I'm 20+ years younger than IS but I doubt very much my mum would do it if my dad died either. Seems unnecessary and old fashioned to me.

The funeral director will normally ask if you want any announcements. They will help you with the wording if need be, and will do the donkey work of booking it into the paper(s).

I don't think it's unnecessary at all - it's a way to spread the word and include old friends and acquaintances that the surviving family may not know or remember. And if the deceased once lived somewhere else, people often put a notice in the local paper there, as there are often old schoolfriends and former workmates. It's not as though you can ask the deceased if you've forgotten anyone!

 

[Alyce]

Well, yes. Except she doesn't seem to have died of an epileptic fit, and I imagine that if she had done, that would have been on the death certificate. Instead it records this mysterious "sudden unexplained death in epilepsy".

All we know is that she died very suddenly - not in her sleep but presumably while she was going about her normal business. Is there any account, anywhere, of what actually happened to her (e.g. whether she had a fit, whether she collapsed, whether she simply stopped breathing or whatever)?

BIB, in short, no. And we have searched extensively.

Until very recently, the only info we had was that she had collapsed in the garden of the family home and that she had died in hospital.

More recently ( during the trial ) some reports changed to say that Diane had collapsed on the patio.

And now, today we have the neighbour quote re going round to the garden and seeing the paramedics and knowing that she died in the garden.

 

[michelle230]

Apart from his conviction, I'd say the biggest pointer that Diane's death is suspicious, is the time it happened.

It's a bit like Helen's murder on a day when no one was expected at the house and not a weekend.



I don't know if there is someone here with a maths brain who could work out the chances of Diane dying from natural causes on the day she did.

It was a Friday.
We don't know her working hours/days but presumably this was a day off/she worked part-time.
The sons were out, so presumably it happened during school/college hours which narrows it down considerably - to exclude evenings, 6am-8-9am breakfast time, nights and weekends.
I think Alyce posted ages ago that SUDEP is so incredibly rare and almost all cases recorded occur during sleep at night.

Excellent pinpointing Tortoise. Like a zoom lens...

 

[Joely 123]

If it's of any interest I was once (for many years) wrongly diagnosed with epilepsy despite protesting the diagnosis. I was given drug treatment that didn't work and it wasn't until I had a bad collapse while visiting my Mum on the Coronary Care Unit that it was realised that I DIDN'T have epilepsy but a heart disorder for which I now get the correct medication and regular checks. Diagnosis of epilepsy depends on the doctor AND family who witness seizures (my children were small) and cannot be 'proved' either way. With IS 'witnessing' I wouldn't be surprised if any blackouts Diane had were embroidered by IS. As I said it's often an ephemeral and subjective diagnosis. I also have Type 1 diabetes and blood cancer to complicate everything. I'm a scientist.


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I am glad you finally had the correct diagnosis, SweetCinnamon but sorry you have a heart disorder, and Type 1 diabetes and the awful blood cancer. I hope you manage to feel well despite all of this.

I agree Epilepsy is difficult to diagnose. When I was being investigated for MS symptoms, which eventually proved not, my case was passed on to question cause of symptoms and Epilepsy was suggested as possible. I was given drug management (more like Zombie drugs) and invited to have a 'sleep over' analysis of Epilepsy. I declined this but during the process of discussions it was suggested I may wish to contact DVLA with possible condition. I didn't feel they had they right diagnosis and didn't follow through with their suggestion or explorations but was afraid to stop taking the tabs until a wonderful friend said he would look after me - and make sure of no adverse symptoms as a result of this. With courage and support, tabs were stopped and no symptoms or suggestion of Epilepsy ever recurred.
This makes me think of Diane and her not driving for three years. Was this truly necessary?
Why didn't Diane talk to people, as Alyce pointed out with her friends who needed reassurance of possible fits It is the first thing on one's mind to advise friends - knowing they are alert gives confidence.

What was IS up to? I wouldn't trust him in his medalling with authority - be it Doctors, Paramedics and proven to be the case with the Police. He is, as we know, BEYOND LAWS.

 

[cottonweaver]

The funeral director will normally ask if you want any announcements. They will help you with the wording if need be, and will do the donkey work of booking it into the paper(s).

I don't think it's unnecessary at all - it's a way to spread the word and include old friends and acquaintances that the surviving family may not know or remember. And if the deceased once lived somewhere else, people often put a notice in the local paper there, as there are often old schoolfriends and former workmates. It's not as though you can ask the deceased if you've forgotten anyone!

Interesting you mention BIB but I do recall having a convo with the director of a well- established funeral company , he was telling me ( not the names) but how easy it was to get a picture of the bereaved's reln and true feelings about the deceased from the conversations about arrangements.

Agree about the classifieds notices

 

[cottonweaver]

Sorry about personal details, didn't want anyone to think I'm 'doing
An Ian Stewart'!


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very sorry to hear about your personal health issues SC. No-one would ever think that ^. I notice in your original post you are also a scientist - we definitely need your scientific and personal input on here.

 

[Tortoise]

It's just occurred to me that IS made a couple of posts on a private fb group or page referencing Diane's death (one in June 2016 I believe, in which he said he failed at CPR, and another on her birthday in 2011, 10 months after she'd died, saying he wasn't bothered).

I'm not sure if police would be able to find these seeing as his computer was cleared and as it's a closed group or whatever the terminology is - not being on fb myself - but if anyone here has got them, they might want to inform the police what they have, during this enquiry.