GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #2

[snoopydog]

I do wonder if Helen would have reacted to IS differently had she not been seeing the grief counsellor at the time. When Helen raised the issue of IS and starting a reltionship, the counsellor seemed to be the one encouraging her to go for it by saying something like "What if you dont go for it and wait 6 months and 6 months down the line IS has met somebody else and is happy with them). Maybe the words of her counsellor encouraged her to go against her natural instincts on this occasion.

Did the counsellor do this? I find this incredibly irresponsible of them. Cruse the bereavement counsellors wont even see you until 6 months after the death of a partner so I find it mad her own one was recommending her to get into a relationship at only 6 months after her husband died.


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[Alyce]

Thanks for the insider view Lit Up. Hugely appreciated.

Jamie and Oliver Stewart have both already given evidence so they were called as part of the Prosecution case.

I agree re JB and remaining amicable. He will need to deal with Helen's estate at some point in the near future and it will ease the way somewhat if there is no friction.

The poor drainage man, I do feel for him. I am sure he already has nightmares about that day and this will have reinforced his memories.

 

[maud]

As the thread has once again touched upon the death of IS's first wife, I wondered if anyone else has spotted the exchange between Helen and Noreen Lem (IS's mother in law) on the Planet Grief blog. The exchange is dated July 28th 2015.


NOREEN LEM

Reply July 28, 2015
hi Helen. Have just been reading some of your feelings on the grief experienced by the loss of a partner and whilst I have experienced and come through that loss I can never come to get over the loss of my daughter only seven months after my husband. One should never loose a child before oneself.


PLANET GRIEF

Reply August 16, 2015

Noreen, thank you for your input. Obviously this blog is only written from the perspective of someone who has lost a partner, although over the years, many others with different experiences of bereavement or other loss have contributed. I think that most of these contributors would agree that the death of a child is particularly cruel, and that however great our loss feels, it is not comparable to losing your child. x

It seems such a very poignant conversation.

 

[LozDa]

NOT an "opinion" but FACT: fb memorial page to Diane Stewart (IS's wife) set up by

her sister states:

"13.9.10 - The coroner deemed the cause of death to be "unexpected Epileptic fit". The collection made in Dianes memory has been closed, the final total was £1610. This is to be split between MAGPAS (air ambulance who attended Diane) and MND the disease from which our Dad and a close friend of Diane's sadly died.
How cruel is life?
We miss you so much, love always W xxxxxxxxxxxx . . . "

Link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/125906664118992/


I believe IS's late wife worked full time as a school secretary and do not think she had any previous symptoms of epilepsy

TOTALLY TRAGIC

I may be speaking out of turn on behalf of Interested Bystander, but I don't think the word 'opinion' was used to be rude [emoji5]

I'm totally with you down this track. I read that and thought it was ever so odd to have a fit that kills you out of nowhere....

Totally tragic for the family and knowing what we know now, I'm sure eyebrows have been raised with hindsight. Although I think proving either way could be almost impossible now, sadly.

 

[Squamous]

I was hoping someone had been there today. Poor Mr Beavis, horrific for him.

Interesting about IS's son JS. He was called as a prosecution witness, can the defence call him too? And if so, can he be in court to listen? I do hope he is continuing to have a good relationship with his brother.

 

[Alyce]

Did the counsellor do this? I find this incredibly irresponsible of them. Cruse the bereavement counsellors wont even see you until 6 months after the death of a partner so I find it mad her own one was recommending her to get into a relationship at only 6 months after her husband died.


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Yep, all true.
As I was reading CPs post, the words all came back to me.

And I agree. There's a world of difference between ;
a counsellor saying that it might be ok for Helen to go out with a fellow widower, as a friend, to try and bring some slight semblance of normality into her otherwise totally chaotic and grief driven world

and
saying something along the lines of you'd best snap him up now or you'll regret it if someone else does.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I was in court today, and it's a fascinating case.

One of the things which surprised me most was observing the interaction *outside* the courtroom between one of the Stewart sons (only one was there) and Helen Bailey's brother, John, and his partner, Fraser Dyer.

During the frequent breaks, Jamie and John/Fraser were amiably talking to each other. There was no avoidance whatsoever. Not merely acknowledgements either, actually chit-chatting and hanging around together.

This makes sense in a way. Jamie is probably still living in the Baldock Road house which is in his father's name. It is in John Bailey's interests to be on amiable terms with the Stewart sons, given that all of Helen's belongings are in the house, and John Bailey would clearly have no right of entry or right to her possessions, given I assume that probate has not yet been granted on HB's estate pending the outcome of the trial.

One wonders whether the Stewart sons were witnesses for the defence or prosecution; perhaps they are not united on this matter. But from observing Jamie today, I anticipate that perhaps he's not on his father's side. I know that both sons didn't recall "Joe and Nick". Perhaps it might be a stretch to think that Jamie might retain a friendship with the Baileys (it would be easy to sympathise with him; having lost his mum to cancer and then his dad jailed for murder, all before the age of 25). But who knows.

John Beavis, the drain cleaner man who unearthed Helen's body was shaking in the dock as he recounted what he had seen. The police have a photo of Helen's arm sticking out of the cesspit; the corpse was wearing a "stripey top" which could well be the one she is wearing in her Facebook profile pic.

Roll on Friday.

Thank you very much for the update. Can you say how IS seemed?

Didn't Jamie's mum die of an unexpected epileptic fit? I didn't know she had cancer too. I also read something earlier in the court reporting that IS spoke of his EX wife. I hadn't seen that before or since. Any ideas?

 

[SiSi]

I was in court today, and it's a fascinating case.

One of the things which surprised me most was observing the interaction *outside* the courtroom between one of the Stewart sons (only one was there) and Helen Bailey's brother, John, and his partner, Fraser Dyer.

During the frequent breaks, Jamie and John/Fraser were amiably talking to each other. There was no avoidance whatsoever. Not merely acknowledgements either, actually chit-chatting and hanging around together.

This makes sense in a way. Jamie is probably still living in the Baldock Road house which is in his father's name. It is in John Bailey's interests to be on amiable terms with the Stewart sons, given that all of Helen's belongings are in the house, and John Bailey would clearly have no right of entry or right to her possessions, given I assume that probate has not yet been granted on HB's estate pending the outcome of the trial.

One wonders whether the Stewart sons were witnesses for the defence or prosecution; perhaps they are not united on this matter. But from observing Jamie today, I anticipate that perhaps he's not on his father's side. I know that both sons didn't recall "Joe and Nick". Perhaps it might be a stretch to think that Jamie might retain a friendship with the Baileys (it would be easy to sympathise with him; having lost his mum to cancer and then his dad jailed for murder, all before the age of 25). But who knows.

John Beavis, the drain cleaner man who unearthed Helen's body was shaking in the dock as he recounted what he had seen. The police have a photo of Helen's arm sticking out of the cesspit; the corpse was wearing a "stripey top" which could well be the one she is wearing in her Facebook profile pic.

Roll on Friday.

I did wonder whether the Baldock Road property is still being treated as a "crime scene" and whether IS's sons are indeed able to remain living there?

 

[snoopydog]

Yep, all true.
As I was reading CPs post, the words all came back to me.

And I agree. There's a world of difference between a counsellor saying that it might be ok for Helen to go out with a fellow widower, as a friend, to try and do something relatively normal in her life and say words along the lines of best snap him up now or you'll regret it if someone else does.

Personally I waited a year before dating but before that had an infatuation with an unsuitable guy I'd met online but not in real life luckily, the kind I'd never have entertained before....You'll do anything to try and take the pain you are suffering away. I think this is what Helen has done....


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[SiSi]

I was in court today, and it's a fascinating case.

One of the things which surprised me most was observing the interaction *outside* the courtroom between one of the Stewart sons (only one was there) and Helen Bailey's brother, John, and his partner, Fraser Dyer.

During the frequent breaks, Jamie and John/Fraser were amiably talking to each other. There was no avoidance whatsoever. Not merely acknowledgements either, actually chit-chatting and hanging around together.

This makes sense in a way. Jamie is probably still living in the Baldock Road house which is in his father's name. It is in John Bailey's interests to be on amiable terms with the Stewart sons, given that all of Helen's belongings are in the house, and John Bailey would clearly have no right of entry or right to her possessions, given I assume that probate has not yet been granted on HB's estate pending the outcome of the trial.

One wonders whether the Stewart sons were witnesses for the defence or prosecution; perhaps they are not united on this matter. But from observing Jamie today, I anticipate that perhaps he's not on his father's side. I know that both sons didn't recall "Joe and Nick". Perhaps it might be a stretch to think that Jamie might retain a friendship with the Baileys (it would be easy to sympathise with him; having lost his mum to cancer and then his dad jailed for murder, all before the age of 25). But who knows.

John Beavis, the drain cleaner man who unearthed Helen's body was shaking in the dock as he recounted what he had seen. The police have a photo of Helen's arm sticking out of the cesspit; the corpse was wearing a "stripey top" which could well be the one she is wearing in her Facebook profile pic.

Roll on Friday.

I did wonder whether the Baldock Road property is still being treated as a "crime scene" and whether IS's sons are indeed able to remain living there?

And also, how would anyone feel, living in that house now?

(Coroner stated that IS's late wife and the sons' mother died of "unexpected epileptic fit" -- no cancer involved?)

 

[Squamous]

Yep, all true.
As I was reading CPs post, the words all came back to me.

And I agree. There's a world of difference between ;
a counsellor saying that it might be ok for Helen to go out with a fellow widower, as a friend, to try and bring some slight semblance of normality into her otherwise totally chaotic and grief driven world

and
saying something along the lines of you'd best snap him up now or you'll regret it if someone else does.

Yes, it's all here. It concerned me reading it too.

http://planetgrief.com/2012/05/17/painful-pleasure/

 

[Interested Bystander]

I may be speaking out of turn on behalf of Interested Bystander, but I don't think the word 'opinion' was used to be rude [emoji5]

I'm totally with you down this track. I read that and thought it was ever so odd to have a fit that kills you out of nowhere....

Totally tragic for the family and knowing what we know now, I'm sure eyebrows have been raised with hindsight. Although I think proving either way could be almost impossible now, sadly.

You are quite right. It was only a question for more information on a subject that interests me.

 

[Cherwell]

I'm totally with you down this track. I read that and thought it was ever so odd to have a fit that kills you out of nowhere....

Totally tragic for the family and knowing what we know now, I'm sure eyebrows have been raised with hindsight. Although I think proving either way could be almost impossible now, sadly.

I had been under the impression that she suffered from epilepsy, but it seems this is not the case.
Three years later her sister was saying "We still are numb and completely shocked today as to why it happened with so many unanswered questions".

 

[Duchy]

We don't have arguments on Websleuth, we debate and discuss which is healthy as too much of one persons opinion is dull.

What proof can you provide that Helen paid for everything (including the house) and was 'taken for granted'? Or that she was unhappy?

IMO Dolly is debating and discussing healthily and I am finding her contributions informative and interesting. We have heard of Helen's £600 standing order going into the joint account each month but we haven't heard of similar coming from IS.

 

[Alyce]

Thank you very much for the update. Can you say how IS seemed?

Didn't Jamie's mum die of an unexpected epileptic fit? I didn't know she had cancer too. I also read something earlier in the court reporting that IS spoke of his EX wife. I hadn't seen that before or since. Any ideas?

I think it was just bad wording the bit re ex wife. I mean, she is ex in the sense that she is deceased, but they were married when she died.
It is the same way that many journos report DS as being ISs first wife. Yes technically she was his first wife, but actually she was his only wife.
It really grates with me because it makes it sound as though Helen was also his wife.

 

[ColourPurple]

I do wonder if Helen would have reacted to IS differently had she not been seeing the grief counsellor at the time. When Helen raised the issue of IS and starting a reltionship, the counsellor seemed to be the one encouraging her to go for it by saying something like "What if you dont go for it and wait 6 months and 6 months down the line IS has met somebody else and is happy with them). Maybe the words of her counsellor encouraged her to go against her natural instincts on this occasion.

Did the counsellor do this? I find this incredibly irresponsible of them. Cruse the bereavement counsellors wont even see you until 6 months after the death of a partner so I find it mad her own one was recommending her to get into a relationship at only 6 months after her husband died.




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Yep, all true.
As I was reading CPs post, the words all came back to me.


And I agree. There's a world of difference between ;
a counsellor saying that it might be ok for Helen to go out with a fellow widower, as a friend, to try and bring some slight semblance of normality into her otherwise totally chaotic and grief driven world


and
saying something along the lines of you'd best snap him up now or you'll regret it if someone else does.

I've been trying to find the link I read. I think it might have been the post on helen's blog where she was discussing some people's reactions to people discussing dating again on a forum/group set up for grieving. can't find it now though. If anyone else can please post

ETA Thank you Sqarmous http://planetgrief.com/2012/05/17/painful-pleasure/

Was I telling The Widower that I didn’t want a relationship or telling myself? I know that at the time I meant everything I said. I talked again to my bereavement coach. She asked what I liked about The Widower. I reeled off a long list of his qualities. She asked me what I didn’t like. There was nothing about him I didn’t like. What I didn’t like was that he had come into my life now. It was too soon, not part of my plan. She said, “OK, don’t see him for another eighteen months or two years or whatever time scale you think is appropriate. Then look him up and when you find he is happy with someone else, we’ll deal with your tears of regret then.”
If he finds someone else before I’m ready, then that’s fate, I told myself, trying to ignore the fact that I would be devastated if in one of my “You should date lots of women!” conversations The Widower had confessed, “Actually, I’ve found someone I really like…”

 

[Alyce]

I did wonder whether the Baldock Road property is still being treated as a "crime scene" and whether IS's sons are indeed able to remain living there?

Ah, yes. I had thought about this one too.

The police will have taken everything they need, crime scene wise, before the trial began. The only on site activity has been the Jury visit and - as far as we know - they only viewed the outside of the property - the garage.

So technically, and because IS has a share in the property ( we dont know how much but he has some ownership ) then they may be allowed to live there, pending the outcome of the trial.

I have to say, that does not sit well with me and I would have hoped, out of respect, that the property would remain empty.
but that is just my personal feeling on the matter and the law is a different thing altogether.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Anyone know:-

Re Helen's estate. As IS is not allowed to profit from crime (assuming he is found guilty) will Jamie and Oliver inherit or will Helen's estate revert back to Helen's family?

 

[SiSi]

Anyone know:-

Re Helen's estate. As IS is not allowed to profit from crime (assuming he is found guilty) will Jamie and Oliver inherit or will Helen's estate revert back to Helen's family?

Probably depends on HB's will . . . but really SHOULD revert to HB's family shouldn't it?

 

[Joely 123]

You can always rely on the Daily Mail to make it sound more dramatic !

He could be seen wearing only his dressing gown as he was cautioned by officers moments after being pulled from his bed.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-police-wouldn-t-anything.html#ixzz4WnuLe8rI
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

So classic of the Daily Mail. Always true to sensationalism and yet missed the climax where 'he was talked down by his Father'. My comments are about the DM and certainly not Mr Stewart (senior) who is doing everything, naturally, to help his Son .. and is in a heartbreaking place beyond what any parent could ever wish to face.