GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #2

[snoopydog]

Just listened to the second part of the 101 call. The way he talks about the dog and the exasperation in his voice expecting her to know what kind of dog it is is a disgrace. His whole tone isn't one of concern for Helen it's of concern for what hassle he might have to go through... what a horrible man


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Lit Up]

Many thanks. I have come across the Slayer's Rule in the US (where children of a murderer cannot benefit/inherit) but couldn't find the equivalent for us in the UK.

Its called the forfeiture rule, in this country.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I completely agree. Helen's family wouldnt want to go within a million miles !

The thing that grates with me is that because IS has a part ownership he will do very nicely out of the sale as the property has increased in value by about £750,000 since the purchase in 2013.

Do we know for sure that IS part owned the house? I am recalling what the Prosecution said about IS standing to inherit the house, etc. Would he not have said HB's share of the house? Only a thought!

 

[Alyce]

Do we know for sure that IS part owned the house? I am recalling what the Prosecution said about IS standing to inherit the house, etc. Would he not have said HB's share of the house? Only a thought!

Somewhere at the beginning of the trial , I remember a bit of evidence that said he owned some of the house. .... I think the wording said, a small share...I will have a look back to find it

 

[Legally Bland]

This is more about the size of the tank than about a body.

Here is an example of dissolving lye in water:

https://youtu.be/u9rf3qZpO7g

Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lye




Soapmakers indicate that a lye : water ratio between 25% and 40% is optimal ~ for dissolving fat if you want to make soap
http://www.japudo.com.br/en/2013/05/14/the-importance-of-lye-concentration/

A little math in metric for a cauldron that measures 2000 gallons like the cesspit:

2000 gallons = 9092.18 litres
1 litre water = 1 kg
lye : water ratio 25% = (.25 x 9092.18) = 2273.045 kg

= 5011lb

Yeah, that's a LOT of lye. Thank you for the info, and sorry for being too chicken to google it.

 

[Tortoise]

Over the past few evenings I've typed up IS' call to 101 on 15th April 2016.



Hertfordshire Police how can I help?

Hello there. My partner has been missing since Monday and not contacted anyone, said she was going away, hasn’t gone…ended up where she said she was going, so I’m…we’ve just decided we should report it.

Has this been reported already?

No, it hasn’t, no.

Ok, she’s been missing since Monday?

Yeah.

Ok, bear with me, so, right bear with me, I’ll just take some details down

Sorry, I can’t hear you

Bear with me, just popping these details down, so she’d been missing since Monday?

Mm hum

What’s the address that she’s missing from?

45 Baldock Road

Baldock Road, and what’s the town?

Royston, sorry.

Royston, no problem. What’s your partner’s name?

Helen Bailey

Is that Bayley?

No Bailey.

And what’s her date of birth?

Oh crikey, God, you’ve thrown me there, 22[SUP]nd[/SUP], right just let me double check one second, oh God, sorry….can you still hear me?

I can still hear you.

I’m sorry, I’m just double checking, glad you asked that, it just went straight out my head.

No problem.

22[SUP]nd[/SUP] August 1964

54 yeah, 1954?

64!

64, my apologies.

No my fault, sorry, my just, my brain just went, sorry.

So, she’s gone away, was that for work, business, sorry?

No, no, she’s, she’s self-employed so she works from home, so she, no she left a note, she said, she said in the note something like ‘I need space and time alone, I’m going to Broadstairs, please don’t contact me in any way’ but in Broadstairs she’s got, we’ve got a, a cottage down there but we, people have been down there with neighbours and she hasn’t, she’s not there, hasn’t been there either.

So Broadstairs, where is Broadstairs?

On the clea…near Margate.

Markyate?

Ooh can I just take a call, someone’s just phoned me.

No problem.

Hello…bleep..no, no I’m actually on the phone to the police..bleep..can I come back to you? Yeah, ok, sorry..bleep..bye. Sorry, that’s a friend and she was just asking, sorry.

No problem. So Broadstairs, this property’s in Markyate was that?

No, sorry, no its, no it’s a little cottage we’ve got down there, it’s near Margate.

Margate. And she said ‘please don’t contact me’ yeah?

I’m sorry, you’re very quiet, what did you say?

Apologies. It says ‘please do not contact me’ as well in the note?

Oh yes, ‘please don’t contact me in any way’.

Ok, and nothing like a deadline when she’d be back or when you could contact her, nothing like that at all?

No, this has never happened before no. And her phone is just dead, it’s not, when I say dead it just, it just doesn’t ring. Just goes straight to answer machine.

And someone’s been to the cottage and…

Someone’s been to the cottage yeah. Her brother went there.

Does it look like anyone had been in there?

No, no. No. Someone went in and it doesn’t look like anyone’s been in there.

Ok. Did Helen go in a vehicle?

No, she didn’t. She’s left her car here. She did take her dog with her. She’s got a little Dachshund. But she could get there by train…or she, she could possibly take a taxi. She does do that sort of thing.

Ok. And the dog was a Dachshund?

Yeah.

Ok. I just need to go through some questions with you. Can I take your name please?

Ian Stewart.

Bear with me while I fill out the details that we know at this time.

Sorry did you ask me a question there?

Oh no, sorry. I just said I’ll go through these details we’ve already got, like her name and birth date, we’ve got that. So I’ll just pop these in quickly. So, when was the last time you saw her?

Monday afternoon before about, ‘bout quarter to, quarter to 3, twenty to 3.

And did she say anything to you unusual…or?

No. Nothing before I went out. No she just asked me to run an errand for her after I had been to the doctors.

And she said nothing to you then, was she leaving the premises at that time?

No, no, she was…I left her here.

Oh you left her, ok. So you left about quarter to 3 or so and then what time did you return?

Aghh, must have been, probably just before 5. I didn’t actually really notice.

That’s no problem. And that’s when you saw the note?

I didn’t see it straight away, she’d put it on the desk. I didn’t see it straight away no.

What sort of time did you realise the note had been left?

Oh, I don’t, ‘bout quarter past 5, something like that.

So a few minutes later yeah?

Yeah, not very long, no not very long, sorry yeah.

And was the note a bit of a shock, were you expecting it at all?

No I wasn’t. We…ell, yes it was a shock. She has talked about it but it was still a shock. She has talked about wanting space ‘cause things just haven’t been going well for her recently, or for us.

Ok, so she’d mentioned wanting space but she’d never actually acted on it, she’s not left before?

She’s never done anything like this before, no.

And so at this time we have no idea where Helen is, no…

No-one. No, and there’s, I’ve contacted, there’s 4 people who basically, who she would contact. Her brother and 2 best friends, and they’ve not heard from her. They’ve assured me they’ve not heard from her and they said they promised that they would say.

So you’ve spoken to 2 of her brothers and 2 of her friends?

No. I’ve spoken to, I’m sorry I didn’t say that very well. I’ve spoken to her brother John and 2 of her friends, 3 of her friends effectively, I’ve got one who’s indirect, I haven’t spoken to her directly but someone else has, so there’s 3 girlfriends, or 3 women, and her brother. And they’re the only people who know at the moment because we, oh and the neighbour, and the neighbours down at Broadstairs sort of have an inkling that we’re all concerned but we haven’t said it, we haven’t told her parents or my parents, or my sons.

Ok, so your parents and Helen’s parents aren’t aware of this at the moment?

Not at the moment no, although her brother has spoken to her parents and he’s sure, he’s, he’s sure she’s not there.

This may sound silly but she’s definitely not at home, no?

No. Her brother asked that. I, I’ve literally checked everywhere. We have got quite a large house but I have literally checked everywhere.

And she’s never been missing before, no?

Not, not since, I’ve, I’ve only, I’ve known her 5 years, but no and her brother says no.

Does she have anything um any sort of medical or psychological issues at all?

Well, she’s got, she’s um...well she’s menopausal, that’s the only medical issue that she’s got, but she did have a, I don’t like to use the word breakdown ‘cause her brother said it wasn’t a breakdown, but she did see a psych…she was in…well she did see a psychologist and she was in group therapy, I’ve, her friend thinks this is probably about 10 years ago maybe longer. She hasn’t said much about that to me, but she did go through that, yeah, so yes the answer is to that. Yes.

That was about 10 years ago?

Well I think so yeah, what I’ve just told you is all I knew. All I really know, that’s all her friend really knows as well.

No problem, thank you. Does she take any sort of medication that she critically needs do you know?

No. She’s, she’s not, she actually I’ve been want...been wanting her to go to the doctor because [?] but she won’t go to the doctor. The only medicine she takes is what she buys over the internet, things like herbal stuff, vitamins, that sort of stuff.

Ok, no problem.

Yeah, nothing, no medical condition, nothing like diabetes or anything.

Ok. And sorry to repeat this, but she’s not attempted suicide or self-harm ever before, no?

No. Unless, no. No everyone’s sure she hasn’t. No.

Ok, and can she interact safely with other people? Will she be happy going up to someone asking for directions?

Oh yes. Oh yes, she’s a very l…she’s an author. She’s a children’s author and she’s written books yeah. No she’s very, she’s very good, talking to people.

And is she ever likely to be a victim of any sort of abuse that you know of?

No. I’ve, no, she’s a very strong person, be very hard to abuse Helen. She’d come back to you very strongly. She did, this is prob…she lost her husband well ‘bout just over 5 years ago and that’s how I met her, because I lost my partner and we met through a berea…bereavement group.

Oh I see, ok, um and

Just…

Sorry

…I don’t know if that’s relevant but I just thought you…should better tell you.

Oh yeah, I can pop that down, it all helps. Um it may seem a bit random, but is she likely to be involved or subjected to crime at all?

Did you say...I’m sorry I heard the word crime but I didn’t hear…?

Sorry. Repeats question.

No.

No, and could you describe her dog for me, if that’s alright?

It’s a miniature Dachshund. I mean it’s brown, it’s, the, it’s not, it’s not a wire hair it’s a smooth coat miniature Dachshund. So it’s pretty self-explanatory eh.

Is it male, female?

It’s male.

Does it wear a collar or anything?

Yes it does. It wears a yellow collar, well it does when she, when we’re out wal…well it doesn’t in the house but it does when we’re out yeah.

Yes ok. I’m popping some more details down so bear with me if I go quiet.

Ok (sniffs)

Ok, so, just need to go through her sort of physical appearance if that’s alright, so what sort of, what’s her height initially?

Ooh, I’m gonna guess here, she has told me but she’s probably 5’10”, just, something like that. Quite tall.

And what sort of build, is she slim?

Slim. That’s easy (relief)

And her hair colour and style?

It, it’s on the shoulder, long, it’s, she won’t like me saying this it’s black going grey. Grey strea…grey streaky. Not grey streaky it’s going grey. So it’s black, it’s black but she’s left, just left it natural, so it’s got grey highlights in if you like. Probably the best way to describe it. (faint chuckle)

And her eye colour?

Her eye colour. Oh my God. How do you forget these things? I don’t know at the moment. Sorry it’s just gone out my head.

Fine that’s no problem.

Sorry, God, that’s terrible.

And her sort of skin colour?

Uuh, pale I guess I would say, pale.

Is that sort of white pale?

Yeah, white pale, yeah. God, how can I not remember her eye colour? That’s terrible.

And what sort of clothes would she typically wear?

What sort of clothes? Typically, oh, jeans, jeans and a shirt. Jeans, just typically, day to day.

Does she usually have a handbag with her?

Well. I don’t, I have, she’s got quite a few han…I, I don’t know, I don’t, I’ve, I would normally, yes, but I don’t particularly know which one she’s taken, if, if she’s taken one.

No problem at all. And can I just take down her contact number if that’s ok?

‘Course it is, I’m gonna have to look it up because it’s something I can never remember. It’s just in my phone if you know what I mean. (bleeps while number is read out)

And it’s currently been turned off all this time?

Well, that’s what, that’s what we think, or out of service you know, out of range, or…

I’ve got all that information, leave that with us, what I will do now is I will send this across to our officers and what we’ll do is make certain enquiries about her …police…hospitals..etc. We’ll cover all those bases, um if you have any further information please do give us a call and what we’ll do is give you a call if we have any further or we need any further information alright?

Ok, so what do I do, do I, is there anything else to be done now I mean?

No, not at this time. If I give you a reference number for this call, it’s 475.

475.

And that’s of today’s date which is 15[SUP]th[/SUP] of the 4[SUP]th[/SUP].

So, if I want to ring you what do, do I ring 101? That’s what I got through to you, is that the right way to come…?

Yeah, if you call us on 101 and just say reference number 475 of 15/4 and we can find this log and we’ll know exactly what’s going on.

Ok.

Would you mind if I take the whole address of the cottage?

The whole address of the cottage? Wow. Crikey. I’m not sure if I can give you that. I just go there. Er, I’m gonna have to look that up, I really don’t know, I know it’s Raglan Place, I can’t, I don’t know what the number is. I just, the number, I’m sorry, I’ll have to look that up. I’m, I really will. I just go there, no I don’t know. I don’t know without looking that up somewhere. It’s somewhere we just go and I’m not, I don’t think I’ve ever, I must have the address, I’ve got the address somewhere, but I just don’t know what it is. Sorry, no.

That’s ok. I’ll let our officers know at this time we don’t have the cottage address but if you do find out just give us a call.

Yeah, no, I can, I’ve got it obviously but it’s just not something, I never have to write there or anything so, yeah, ok.

Alright Ian just leave that with us for the time being and we’ll be in contact with you shortly, ok?

But when you say, because I’m gonna be, because our [gardener’s away?] and her 2 friends, when you say shortly what we talking about, a day, 2 days?

It’s all dependent, I couldn’t say, it depends if we know where Helen is, if we have any further leads etc. It just all depends on whatever information we have.

Ok.

Alright. And what’s your best contact number?

Did I give you my mobile number?

Um I don’t believe you have, I’ve got Helen’s.

No, as I say my mobile is the best contact number. (bleeps while number is read out)

Again, we’ll be in contact as soon as we can be, alright?

So I’ve just, it’s just a question of waiting, there’s nothing, nothing else you do at…this..stage? (hesitation over last 2 words)

As I say, we’ll just do our initial enquiries and yeah it’s just a case of waiting unfortunately.

Ok. Ok, just because I, I’ve gotta talk to her brother and her 2, her friends. So yeah.

…..

 

[Joely 123]

IS - if found guilty - can only keep his share of the property - and his personal possessions.
He cannot inherit anything under the Will ( thank goodness )

He could pass his share of the property on to J and O, but they will then have to deal with whomever has inherited from Helen's Will.

As I said earlier, if there are other beneficiaries in Helen's Will, apart from IS, then they get it all.
If there are none, then it goes, via intestacy, to Helen's parents.

If JSs children are not in the Will then they do not come into the picture.

Thank you, Alyce - you are a wizard of info. I am just wondering now if IS ever wrote a Will or was so concentrated on Helen's wealth, that he may have overlooked protection of his Sons.

 

[Annad]

I completely agree. Helen's family wouldnt want to go within a million miles !

The thing that grates with me is that because IS has a part ownership he will do very nicely out of the sale as the property has increased in value by about £750,000 since the purchase in 2013.

Most of that profit will be wasted on solicitors fees for the trial all the appeals that will follow. Also someone mentioned that J and O might inherit IS portion. But that will not occur until IS is dead himself.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Somewhere at the beginning of the trial , I remember a bit of evidence that said he owned some of the house. .... I think the wording said, a small share...I will have a look back to find it

This is what I remember but the wording is a little odd about the Royston house. Why would he have said “the value of the main Royston house” and not just the Royston House. Maybe this indicates it was her share. However, I need to remember these are the words of a reporter and not necessarily the Prosecutor.

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/live-day-one-murder-trial-12427078

12:58
Author made a will in 2014, naming Stewart as the beneficiary
The prosecution state that on the event of her death, Stewart would benefit from £1.8million in addition to the value of the main Royston house and the second home in Broadstairs. Helen Bailey made a will in 2014 - she was apparently concerned that Stewart might be financially vulnerable if she died.

 

[SiSi]

Perhaps it means "main residence" . . . .?

 

[Joely 123]

Tortoise- thank you. Your transcript of IS call to report Helen missing - is more illuminating than hearing it. It sends shivers - and the stress and lack of authenticity is more clear.

 

[Squamous]

Perhaps it means "main residence" . . . .?

I'd agree with this, with the Broadstairs and Gateshead properties being the minor ones.

Thanks for transcribing the phone call Tortoise, epic work!

And thanks too for all the copying across done today, really appreciate it.

 

[Evendor]

New here and been following the case on Cambridge news.

For a long time I thought guilty but starting to some doubts. For me:

The cesspit lid possibly too much for him to lift on his own being injured.

The bank account accessed while he was not at home. I know there are ways but why go to that length unless to cause suspicions to somebody else.

HB's mother said Helen was tired even while IS was in hospital. I was on Zopiclone myself 15 years ago and after 8 hours it's out of your system, so if she was drugged how does that happen when he wasn't there to administer it?

Not sure what to think but those have been bugging me.

 

[cottonweaver]

Over the past few evenings I've typed up IS' call to 101 on 15th April 2016.


......

Thanks Tortoise, I love to see things in black & white. This makes a very interesting script. Going to have a good read of it.

:cheers:

 

[Tortoise]

Tortoise- thank you. Your transcript of IS call to report Helen missing - is more illuminating than hearing it. It sends shivers - and the stress and lack of authenticity is more clear.

Thanks Joely. I'm going to see (when I get time) if I can practice some Statement Analysis on it. It's a skill I'd like to learn.

 

[Cherwell]

The thing that grates with me is that because IS has a part ownership he will do very nicely out of the sale as the property has increased in value by about £750,000 since the purchase in 2013.

It's not going to do him much good though as he is unlikely to be at liberty to enjoy it.

 

[Alyce]

Thank you, Alyce - you are a wizard of info. I am just wondering now if IS ever wrote a Will or was so concentrated on Helen's wealth, that he may have overlooked protection of his Sons.

If he has not done a Will, he can do one now, in prison. But anyway, if he died without a Will, it would all go to his sons as next of kin, so they would be ok

 

[Alyce]

This is what I remember but the wording is a little odd about the Royston house. Why would he have said “the value of the main Royston house” and not just the Royston House. Maybe this indicates it was her share. However, I need to remember these are the words of a reporter and not necessarily the Prosecutor.

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/live-day-one-murder-trial-12427078

12:58
Author made a will in 2014, naming Stewart as the beneficiary
The prosecution state that on the event of her death, Stewart would benefit from £1.8million in addition to the value of the main Royston house and the second home in Broadstairs. Helen Bailey made a will in 2014 - she was apparently concerned that Stewart might be financially vulnerable if she died.

Great find. I am scrolling through the evidence but have not found the remark so far. The only reason it stuck in my mind was that someone ( a RL friend ) said something to me about how much IS owned of the house and I remember thinking oh that's not the same as I read in the evidence.. will keep looking

 

[Alyce]

It's not going to do him much good though as he is unlikely to be at liberty to enjoy it.

very true, I just hate the thought of him gaining anything... to me, he is still making money out of Helen. I know that might sound odd, but if he had not had a share in a large property he could not have made so much profit.

I suppose though, being logical, he will sell up and give the money to his sons, which I dont have a problem with.

 

[Cherwell]

I am just wondering now if IS ever wrote a Will or was so concentrated on Helen's wealth, that he may have overlooked protection of his Sons.

If he had made a will, it would have been invalidated on his marriage to Helen if that had taken place. Unless he had made provision as she did. If he has not or does not make a will now, his sons as next of kin would inherit whatever he leaves. But none of this would take effect until he dies.

Snap again Alyce - just catching up after the long read of the phone call!