GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #3

[Lit Up]

will be very interested to hear Matt & Lit's account of today.

We've only heard of two instances of IS tearing up - once when JS was testifing and the next time when Diane's ashes were mentioned.

IS did wipe away tears today, but only once as far as I could notice. The rest of the time he was just totally blank. The time that he wiped away tears was during the testimony of Chris Patrick via video link from Florida, when the defence asked to clarify if Mr Patrick had told police previously that his first impressions of Mr Stewart and Helen was something along the lines of, that whilst IS was very different from JS, he still seemed a decent guy and that he made Helen very happy.

 

[Tortoise]

Anyway question for all posters and lurkers

Who reckons he planned this prior to December, or even much earlier?

Me! I think even as far back as the power of attorney and maybe the will. Hell, why not when he sought her out. Yes that's what I think. I don't think a murderer (with his cold blooded qualities) appears suddenly out of nowhere.

 

[Tortoise]

I am unsure why Oliver didn't tell dad to go to the police or why he didn't go himself in order to protect his dad. Maybe he told Oliver not to do anything. I can't wait for IS to be in the dock. I just hope he takes the stand.

IB, Oliver didn't know before December.

 

[Joely 123]

I'm hunting in her book and there are only veiled references to legal action (not surprisingly). I did find confirmation that there was no mortgage on the London house though (and hence JS had no life insurance).

Helen's Chapter in her book - on Money Matters, where she writes about knowing little of JS's Company dealings apart from knowing sometimes '
Things were tough, and I'd wake up in the night to find JS wide awake sweating with worry, which would then keep me awake sweating with worry' ..This is to explain how Helen was protected by JS from the roller coaster of huge highs and lows in Business.
'The problem was that after JS died, I had absolutely no idea as to what my income or my expenditure was' This makes me think of all the IS gleaned from Helen's writings - he knew everything she shared with him, and that which she wrote 'privately' as an Author.
The final paragraph in this Chapter - and the final lines .. 'JS did make sure I was looked after, but in the short term, the F-off money I had saved should I ever need to walk out of the house was used to help me stay in it.'

I do hope every word has been 'logged' in the case of the Prosecution so that they have the weapons necessary to know all that IS knows about Helen without relying on hearsay.

 

[Interested Bystander]

IS did wipe away tears today, but only once as far as I could notice. The rest of the time he was just totally blank. The time that he wiped away tears was during the testimony of Chris Patrick via video link from Florida, when the defence asked to clarify if Mr Patrick had told police previously that his first impressions of Mr Stewart and Helen was something along the lines of, that whilst IS was very different from JS, he still seemed a decent guy and that he made Helen very happy.

Another one singing IS's praises. Could everybody really get him that wrong. He must be an incredible actor. Not a single dissenter IIRC.

 

[badhorsie]

I don't think it was planned. I do think that he had fallen out of love with Helen though

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[Interested Bystander]

IB, Oliver didn't know before December.

DOH! yes of course. He didn't learn until December. I will go back to sleep now.

 

[Tortoise]

Another one singing IS's praises. Could everybody really get him that wrong. He must be an incredible actor. Not a single dissenter IIRC.

In my opinion it is very likely that everyone would have the wrong measure of him, only because Helen had shared an intimate life with him for 5 years, and she had no clue. Had she an inkling, she would not have been looking at wedding dresses.

 

[BatFace]

It's weird, because everything we've heard of him via the police and his interviews makes him sound sullen and curmudgeonly.

 

[hunkerdown]

It's weird, because everything we've heard of him via the police and his interviews makes him sound sullen and curmudgeonly.

For a long time when I saw photographs of IS on Helen's FB he pretty much always looked miserable...


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[Interested Bystander]

Due to the drugs there must be some planning behind making Helen sick with sleeping pills. However perhaps he only wanted to gain access to her money. I see money, one way or another, as the big driving force behind his actions.

If he had fallen out of love, he could have walked away. I am sure Helen would have given him back his share of the house. She had two others she could sell and it seems plenty of savings besides or simply move to a less expensive house.

 

[Alyce]

Another one singing IS's praises. Could everybody really get him that wrong. He must be an incredible actor. Not a single dissenter IIRC.

Although, so far ( someone correct me if Im wrong, which is quite possible ! ) all of the people singing his praises have either only met IS once, when with Helen........or have never met IS at all, but are going on Helen's word.

 

[Alyce]

Due to the drugs there must be some planning behind making Helen sick with sleeping pills. However perhaps he only wanted to gain access to her money. I see money, one way or another, as the big driving force behind his actions.

If he had fallen out of love, he could have walked away. I am sure Helen would have given him back his share of the house. She had two others she could sell and it seems plenty of savings besides or simply move to a less expensive house.

BIB which a genuine, decent person would have done.
But, it would have meant giving up his luxury lifestyle and local boy done good image and moving , as you say, to a smaller property. I really don't think he was prepared to relinquish all that he had gained from Helen.

 

[Lit Up]

@Matt

Hope you don't mind questions!

Were family members in attendance today, of either side? Stewart, Bailey, Lem etc? ( Appreciate it's very hard to recognise. )

Does IS look a great deal older than his previous photos? Has he lost weight?

Yes, family members were in attendance today. Neither of the Stewart sons were there (Jamie was there on Wednesday, as was JS daughter Jennie Winterbottom) but John Bailey and his partner Fraser Dyer were there. I presume that they have come every day of the trial. Fraser is clearly a wonderful support to John, and it is remarked in Helen's book that he was a massive comfort to her, not to mention somebody who Helen's deceased husband thought very highly of. He's a priest by vocation, and as sceptical as I am about religion, there is often a sage quality to people who involve themselves in the spiritual lives of their community and counsel and philosophise on matters of life and death. I anticipate that he is also something of a mentor to Jamie Stewart given we have established that the sons have been accepted into the Bailey clan and invited to the memorials.

The policeman who discussed the recovery operation was also chatting to John and Fraser and I am amazed how they are able to make the best of the situation, chuckle and laugh with police and other family in this most sad and trying of times. John Bailey stayed in the room whilst the photograph of Helen Bailey's elbow in the cesspit was there, but to be perfectly honest it was not a graphic image and had we not been told that the white "elliptical object" was in fact an elbow, then, like the policeman, we would have needed some convincing!

I personally would have liked to have seen photos of the corpse during and after recovery; I feel somewhat divorced from the evidence and the crime itself in not being able to see this. If I was in the jury I would ask to view the photos because I would want to see what he did to her. But as the public we have no right, and I suspect never will see them unless they are leaked or someone hacks the police computer! The stripey top she was buried in though is most likely the one that she is wearing in promotional photos for the book.

IS has certainly lost a lot of weight. He looks very different to his previous photos, quite unrecognisable. He cuts a pathetic figure, made worse by the fact he has no shame and is putting the family through a trial when he clearly has no credible alibi.

David Jenson was an interesting character. Questions of his propriety have been raised by HB and family as you know; he was said to owe the Sinfields £70,000 according to JS' daughter and £100,000 according to the defence, having made his wife a director of JS's second business "Musicsope" within days of him drowning and possibly removing funds from accounts. He certainly seemed very slimy, at one stage saying that he felt he owed the deceased estate "anything between nothing and nine thousand pounds"; trying to understate the debt and at one point saying that he "didn't care" what he was said to owe. David Jenson gives off the impression of being a white collar criminal; possibly as opportunistic as Ian Stewart about money but far cleverer.

It's remarkable just how stupid IS comes across as a criminal. He is no mastermind. Whereas IS has contrived "Joe and Nick" (think: a pair of Bill Sikes from Oliver Twist), DJ has been able to swindle thousands of pounds and yet still have sufficient confidence to be able to walk into a Crown Court and say that he "doesn't care" about the amount he is said to owe the Sinfield/Bailey estate, presumably because he's played his cards right and nobody can do anything about it.

 

[Interested Bystander]

It's weird, because everything we've heard of him via the police and his interviews makes him sound sullen and curmudgeonly.

I agree, I wasn't thinking of the police but should have done so. How can anyone spend 5 years being the perfect mate to HB and fool their friends then suddenly up and murder Helen. I can only think that he really didn't meet Helen's friends very often and that Helen overlooked any failings and was too loyal to mention any.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Yes, family members were in attendance today. Neither of the Stewart sons were there (Jamie was there on Wednesday, as was JS daughter Jennie Winterbottom) but John Bailey and his partner Fraser Dyer were there. I presume that they have come every day of the trial. Fraser is clearly a wonderful support to John, and it is remarked in Helen's book that he was a massive comfort to her, not to mention somebody who Helen's deceased husband thought very highly of. He's a priest by vocation, and as sceptical as I am about religion, there is often a sage quality to people who involve themselves in the spiritual lives of their community and counsel and philosophise on matters of life and death. I anticipate that he is also something of a mentor to Jamie Stewart given we have established that the sons have been accepted into the Bailey clan and invited to the memorials.

The policeman who discussed the recovery operation was also chatting to John and Fraser and I am amazed how they are able to make the best of the situation, chuckle and laugh with police and other family in this most sad and trying of times. John Bailey stayed in the room whilst the photograph of Helen Bailey's elbow in the cesspit was there, but to be perfectly honest it was not a graphic image and had we not been told that the white "elliptical object" was in fact an elbow, then, like the policeman, we would have needed some convincing!

I personally would have liked to have seen photos of the corpse during and after recovery; I feel somewhat divorced from the evidence and the crime itself in not being able to see this. If I was in the jury I would ask to view the photos because I would want to see what he did to her. But as the public we have no right, and I suspect never will see them unless they are leaked or someone hacks the police computer! The stripey top she was buried in though is most likely the one that she is wearing in promotional photos for the book.

IS has certainly lost a lot of weight. He looks very different to his previous photos, quite unrecognisable. He cuts a pathetic figure, made worse by the fact he has no shame and is putting the family through a trial when he clearly has no credible alibi.

David Jenson was an interesting character. Questions of his propriety have been raised by HB and family as you know; he was said to owe the Sinfields £70,000 according to JS' daughter and £100,000 according to the defence, having made his wife a director of JS's second business "Musicsope" within days of him drowning and possibly removing funds from accounts. He certainly seemed very slimy, at one stage saying that he felt he owed the deceased estate "anything between nothing and nine thousand pounds"; trying to understate the debt and at one point saying that he "didn't care" what he was said to owe. David Jenson gives off the impression of being a white collar criminal; possibly as opportunistic as Ian Stewart about money but far cleverer.

It's remarkable just how pathetic and stupid IS comes across as a criminal. He is no mastermind. In contrast to somebody like DJ who has been able to swindle thousands of pounds and yet still have sufficient confidence to be able to walk into a Crown Court and say that he "doesn't care" about the amount he is said to owe the Sinfield/Bailey estate, presumably because he's played his cards right and nobody can do anything about it.

Brilliant Lit Up. Thank you.

 

[Alyce]

I agree, I wasn't thinking of the police but should have done so. How can anyone spend 5 years being the perfect mate to HB and fool their friends then suddenly up and murder Helen. I can only think that he really didn't meet Helen's friends very often and that Helen overlooked any failings and was too loyal to mention any.

I think that sums it up very well IB. From all I have read, it does not sound as though IS met many of Helen's friends and if he did, it was a one off meeting.
Helen for her part sounds like a very kind, giving person who would give others the benefit of the doubt and overlook what she might perceive as small failings.

 

[cottonweaver]

It's weird, because everything we've heard of him via the police and his interviews makes him sound sullen and curmudgeonly.

and here he is in wooing mode 2012

IAN

Reply May 18, 2012
Reading about ones self is strange !! Helen you put it into words what we have been through, going through so beautifully.

The GGHW should just be GHW, trades description act.

Just want to say OLLIing with you is fantastic.
You are a special lady ( in so many ways ) and you are my special lady.

You are not only making my life complete again but my sons are so much happier with you around (and Boris of course).

There is a place in my heart and mind for the past
and there is a space (a big space) in my heart and mind for the future.

The journeys end is unknown but we are going to have fun getting there.

Love you
xxxxx

Telling people what they want to hear - cliches - this is for public consumption - it doesn't feel from the heart IMO

http://planetgrief.com/2012/05/17/painful-pleasure/

It's from the comments under the blog post.

 

[Alyce]

Thank you so much Lit Up. It is great to get the birds eye view of this case. Much appreciated.

 

[Interested Bystander]

BIB which a genuine, decent person would have done.
But, it would have meant giving up his luxury lifestyle and local boy done good image and moving , as you say, to a smaller property. I really don't think he was prepared to relinquish all that he had gained from Helen.

Yes. I forgot to indicate that I was responding to a post. He is not a decent genuine person. He knew what he was doing the day he started feeding poor Helen Zopiclone.