GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #4

[ColourPurple]

I was wondering why they decided to sell the flat in gateshead. It's not like they were short of cash in the bank and surely letting a property sit for longer will increase its value.... wonder what the urgency for this was....


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Nothing to back this up but I wonder if he managed to talk her into selling it and got her to make the first visit, possibly whilst under the influence and not thinking straight and if she changed her mind the day she died.

 

[neteditor]

He possibly thought as much (belt, braces and double knicker elastic approach in his eyes). But I think it was just a domain server issue. From the top level records it looks as if he's changed his IP address a good few times over past years but I can't get to the detail of what and when without coughing up $99. I don't mind opening and wasting a paracetamol but $99 is a bit much, especially when it may not help. Am wondering if he thought by changing his IP address he would be covering his tracks from the 'other end' if that makes sense. Again, any forensics person within (say) the police should have access to this information through their work.

If you search for the sykic.com domain in this site: http://whoisrequest.com/history/

I think we can assume the history accurately reflects the history of the .co.uk domain (both were registered and continually renewed at the same times of year).

There were a few changes of hosting provider over the years that he has owned the domain, but the last one, to clook.net, was back in 2009.

In the clip from Milly, it says "Web server change, Apache". Apache is the software that the web server is running on, so I would assume that is a change (perhaps a software update) made at host level and not something that IS actioned. There are very few changes to apache that I can make on my host, I can instruct apache to handle certain things like memory limits, but they are only instructions in files, not an actual change to the operating software.

I'm doing more googling to see if I can clarify that bit some more.

 

[neteditor]

For comparison, I ran some of my own .uk domains through that same site Milly linked, https://www.avidom.uk/

There are lots of changes listed that I definitely did not actively action myself. All my domains list a server change (Apache) on 15 December 2016, so it would seem to me, from that, that my host ran an Apache software update that day (all my sites are hosted on the same shared server).

However on the same date there are other updates listed, such as nameserver changes, IP address change, and I know for a fact those were not changed on that date or any date in recent years. Perhaps the server was reset on that date to trigger what looks like changes to avidom.uk. I can't confirm that though but it seems weird to have a load of changes listed on the same date.

ETA: Good chance that an Apache software update triggered a full server reboot.

I don't think we should take the sykic.co.uk data from avidom.uk as any kind of proof that IS himself was actioning it.

 

[Alyce]

I think his estate will be claimed by the crown to pay the lawyers. But I'm not an expert. I'd also be interested to know what happens to HB's estate. There's the law of forfeiture so clearly IS won't have anything but is payout of assets subject to the trial being concluded and him being found guilty? I wonder how they decide to split the estate.

I think defnately they have to wait for end of trial. Because if he were found not guilty eek:, ) he would get whatever was Willed to him.

With HBs Will
Firstly, any specific gifts or legacies will be given( although she may not have done these, as she said she was still working out who got what )
Then the remainder , as it is now not going to IS, falls into residue of wishes and it should be awarded as per whatever instruction is in the residue section of the Will.
Normally, a Will is written so that the benefactor ( Helen ) will say I want X to get 50%, Y to get 30% Z to get 20%. - or however she chose to split it - I have seen folk do 1% and 2% with a whole catalogue of beneficiaries !

Hopefully she still had JB and the stepchildren in the Will, so they should get it all.

 

[neteditor]

I think defnately they have to wait for end of trial. Because if he were found not guilty eek:, ) he would get whatever was Willed to him.

With HBs Will
Firstly, any specific gifts or legacies will be given( although she may not have done these, as she said she was still working out who got what )
Then the remainder , as it is now not going to IS, falls into residue of wishes and it should be awarded as per whatever instruction is in the residue section of the Will.
Normally, a Will is written so that the benefactor ( Helen ) will say I want X to get 50%, Y to get 30% Z to get 20%. - or however she chose to split it - I have seen folk do 1% and 2% with a whole catalogue of beneficiaries !

Hopefully she still had JB and the stepchildren in the Will, so they should get it all.

If (cough cough) he's found guilty, will her estate be handled under intestacy rules or will they fall back on the previous full will, bearing in mind the current one was an interim will what was yet to be formalised? I think it could throw up a complicated situation.

 

[Alyce]

I was wondering why they decided to sell the flat in gateshead. It's not like they were short of cash in the bank and surely letting a property sit for longer will increase its value.... wonder what the urgency for this was....


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It's interesting timing isn't it - though could have just been co incidence. Tony Hurley ( the F.A. ) didnt mention anything far as I remember, so it doesn't seem to have been advice from him, along the lines of, property prices going to fall, sell up now.
Perhaps Helen had a long term tenant and they asked if she was interested in selling. She had lots of other stuff going on with the wedding, her new website etc, and maybe just thought, a good time to sell up, one less thing to deal with.
Alternatively, maybe it wasnt renting well and likewise, she thought sell up now.

 

[Alyce]

If (cough cough) he's found guilty, will her estate be handled under intestacy rules or will they fall back on the previous full will, bearing in mind the current one was an interim will what was yet to be formalised? I think it could throw up a complicated situation.

The 2014 Will is a valid Will.
Interim is a term used for the type of situation Helen had, whereby she wanted to feel comfortable that she had made provision for IS, while she then had a think about how to refine the details and make changes at a later date.
Often happens after a bereavement, when the widow or widower needs to revise their Will, but it is all too difficult for them to face, so they set up the *interim* Will to secure their assets.

 

[jessie]

A very minor question, but the 'nearly £2000 pm' income IS received? Is the general opinion that part of this was DSS Benefits ? I think DSS benefits stop once the person is in hospital for more than X weeks, so would being held on remand be similar? I suppose all pensions etc continue though. No mortgage, no living expenses, nothing to spend it on while on remand I expect? That must be building up to a tidy sum in one of his accounts.

 

[ConcernedCitizen17]

For comparison, I ran some of my own .uk domains through that same site Milly linked, https://www.avidom.uk/

There are lots of changes listed that I definitely did not actively action myself. All my domains list a server change (Apache) on 15 December 2016, so it would seem to me, from that, that my host ran an Apache software update that day (all my sites are hosted on the same shared server).

However on the same date there are other updates listed, such as nameserver changes, IP address change, and I know for a fact those were not changed on that date or any date in recent years. Perhaps the server was reset on that date to trigger what looks like changes to avidom.uk. I can't confirm that though but it seems weird to have a load of changes listed on the same date.

ETA: Good chance that an Apache software update triggered a full server reboot.

I don't think we should take the sykic.co.uk data from avidom.uk as any kind of proof that IS himself was actioning it.

Agree, based on my experience with host-level changes made to my sites.

 

[Squamous]

The 2014 Will is a valid Will.
Interim is a term used for the type of situation Helen had, whereby she wanted to feel comfortable that she had made provision for IS, while she then had a think about how to refine the details and make changes at a later date.
Often happens after a bereavement, when the widow or widower needs to revise their Will, but it is all too difficult for them to face, so they set up the *interim* Will to secure their assets.

The interim will was one where Tony Hurley entirely had the discretion to divide up the estate as he saw fit though, right?

 

[LozDa]

I've had a very busy morning at work and was worried I was slipping behind on today's proceedings.

��

Bah!

 

[Duchy]

I'd love to be that but reckon it's probably more likely to be a mobile expert. And even if he denies the Tesco man was him if that Tesco man's phone then goes to Cambridge and Broadstairs it's just going to show him up as the liar he is.

Maybe the last witness will be the security man who borrowed the phone.

 

[Tortoise]

The interim will was one where Tony Hurley entirely had the discretion to divide up the estate as he saw fit though, right?

Perhaps we only got to hear about the provisions Helen had made for IS, and they left out reporting of any other beneficiaries Helen created. Dunno.

My quick research on google leads me to believe that once IS is found guilty (look at the confidence there!) he will be treated for the purposes of Helen's will as if he had died before her.

Hopefully Helen's advisers would have told her to make provision for that eventuality.

 

[Moll]

The interim will was one where Tony Hurley entirely had the discretion to divide up the estate as he saw fit though, right?

When all this was discussed in Thread #3, I thought the informed view was that he didn't really have the discretion 'entirely' even though the defence QC pretended he could just have said 'Nothing for you, Mr S, I don't like the cut of your jib' or wtte. Hurley himself said he would have used that will to guide him in distributing her funds.

 

[Moll]

The last witness will be someone from IS's schooldays who will testify that whenever he wanted to get out of a tight spot, he said Joe and Nick had done it.

 

[Tortoise]

:laughing:

Brilliant Moll!

 

[Alyce]

The interim will was one where Tony Hurley entirely had the discretion to divide up the estate as he saw fit though, right?

I am just reading back through Tony Hurley's evidence. It is more messy than I thought ( the situation I mean, not his evidence ).

I think the wording of Helen having produced an Interim Will was misleading.
An Interim Will would have been signed and witnessed and would have been her Final Will. All legal.

What it sounds like now, on a read back, is that she had drafted out a Statement of Wishes, which she drew up * in the interim * while she decided who got what.

A draft is a draft, wishes are wishes. Not legally binding and can be challenged.

The only good thing I can see in all of this ( if the above is correct ) is that
IS cant inherit anything - forfeiture law
take him out of the equation and Helen's draft of wishes is likely to match her 2012 Will, which would stand as her last legal Will.
So in the end, I think brother and step children will inherit, which is what Helen would want.

 

[neteditor]

I am just reading back through Tony Hurley's evidence. It is more messy than I thought ( the situation I mean, not his evidence ).

I think the wording of Helen having produced an Interim Will was misleading.
An Interim Will would have been signed and witnessed and would have been her Final Will. All legal.

What it sounds like now, on a read back, is that she had drafted out a Statement of Wishes, which she drew up * in the interim * while she decided who got what.

A draft is a draft, wishes are wishes. Not legally binding and can be challenged.

The only good thing I can see in all of this ( if the above is correct ) is that
IS cant inherit anything - forfeiture law
take him out of the equation and Helen's draft of wishes is likely to match her 2012 Will, which would stand as her last legal Will.
So in the end, I think brother and step children will inherit, which is what Helen would want.

Yes, this perfectly describes the impression that I came away with on the situation.

 

[Cherwell]

The 2014 Will is a valid Will.
Interim is a term used for the type of situation Helen had, whereby she wanted to feel comfortable that she had made provision for IS, while she then had a think about how to refine the details and make changes at a later date.
Often happens after a bereavement, when the widow or widower needs to revise their Will, but it is all too difficult for them to face, so they set up the *interim* Will to secure their assets.

If the main change from the previous will is the inclusion of IS, and he cannot inherit because he is found guilty, it would be reasonable to assume that the beneficiaries of the previous will should be reinstated. I'm hoping that they still all got something in the interim will, and won't be displaced by his sons. Because I can imagine her including them. But perhaps that was what she was putting off deciding.

(Cross-posted with Alyce)

 

[Alyce]

Yes, this perfectly describes the impression that I came away with on the situation.

Thanks. I was getting confused with them using the term Interim Will. Have seen more than a few of those, over time.

Plus I get hugely irritated ( without reason ) when people do not tie everything down properly.

You know the old saying, Where there's a Will, there's a relative.

Fortunately in Helen's case, I think it will all be alright in the end, to use her phrase, as her family seem lovely decent people
.
I could tell you stories of so many times when, sadly, it is not.