GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #4

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Alyce said:
I am just reading back through Tony Hurley's evidence. It is more messy than I thought ( the situation I mean, not his evidence ).

I think the wording of Helen having produced an Interim Will was misleading.
An Interim Will would have been signed and witnessed and would have been her Final Will. All legal.

What it sounds like now, on a read back, is that she had drafted out a Statement of Wishes, which she drew up * in the interim * while she decided who got what.

A draft is a draft, wishes are wishes. Not legally binding and can be challenged.

The only good thing I can see in all of this ( if the above is correct ) is that
IS cant inherit anything - forfeiture law
take him out of the equation and Helen's draft of wishes is likely to match her 2012 Will, which would stand as her last legal Will.
So in the end, I think brother and step children will inherit, which is what Helen would want.
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I don't have the same impression, I think Helen had a full binding will which left her entire estate as a discretionary trust with the trustee being Tony Hurley - https://www.blakemorgan.co.uk/training-knowledge/guides/client-guide-use-discretionary-trusts/

Hence TH being shocked that she had total faith in his judgement and the defence claiming that TH could have left IS without a penny. Which he wouldn't have done, if Helen had had a natural/accidental death as she had left informal but clear guidance on what she wanted done.

I'm pretty sure the plan later was to go back to a standard will with bequests, which IS wanted to avoid.

I also expect that given the situation the estate will still go into a discretionary trust and TH will be left with the "fun" of deciding who gets what. I think the Stewart sons will pose a dilemma for him - Helen clearly saw them as family and there is no evidence or indication that they had any idea what their father was doing/has done.
 
Being very cynical here (who me?)

Helen made her will in favour of her brother and step-children in 2012. The same year IS says he asked Helen to marry him.

He said that was about a year after her husband died, which would have been Feb 2012, and he also said that was about 3 1/2 years ago, which would have been Nov 2012.
 
Squamous said:
I don't have the same impression, I think Helen had a full binding will which left her entire estate as a discretionary trust with the trustee being Tony Hurley - https://www.blakemorgan.co.uk/training-knowledge/guides/client-guide-use-discretionary-trusts/

Hence TH being shocked that she had total faith in his judgement and the defence claiming that TH could have left IS without a penny. Which he wouldn't have done, if Helen had had a natural/accidental death as she had left informal but clear guidance on what she wanted done.

I'm pretty sure the plan later was to go back to a standard will with bequests, which IS wanted to avoid.

I also expect that given the situation the estate will still go into a discretionary trust and TH will be left with the "fun" of deciding who gets what. I think the Stewart sons will pose a dilemma for him - Helen clearly saw them as family and there is no evidence or indication that they had any idea what their father was doing/has done.
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Oh that's interesting as it has reminded me of something else I read about, a few weeks back.

To do with the Forfeiture Law and how it is applied.

I am not sure if what I read has become law or if it has just been suggested as an amendment to the current law.

The example I read was something like this

A son is the sole beneficiary under his parents Will.
Son murders parents.
Son forfeits any rights to inheritance.
Children of son also forfeit any rights.
But there was a proposal for the grandchildren ( in this case ) to be allowed to benefit, as they were not party to the murders.

Wouldn't apply in Helen's case of course because ISs children were not even legally step sons at the time of her death.
 
Squamous said:
I don't have the same impression, I think Helen had a full binding will which left her entire estate as a discretionary trust with the trustee being Tony Hurley - https://www.blakemorgan.co.uk/training-knowledge/guides/client-guide-use-discretionary-trusts/

Hence TH being shocked that she had total faith in his judgement and the defence claiming that TH could have left IS without a penny. Which he wouldn't have done, if Helen had had a natural/accidental death as she had left informal but clear guidance on what she wanted done.

I'm pretty sure the plan later was to go back to a standard will with bequests, which IS wanted to avoid.

I also expect that given the situation the estate will still go into a discretionary trust and TH will be left with the "fun" of deciding who gets what. I think the Stewart sons will pose a dilemma for him - Helen clearly saw them as family and there is no evidence or indication that they had any idea what their father was doing/has done.
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This is why I used the word "impression", I'm not at all convinced I have the correct impression and it might appear we're all still rather confused! Why is there never a probate lawyer when we need one :D

I think (hope) TH will look to Helen's previous wishes. IS presumably still has a large cash sum in the bank and is entitled to his share of the Royston house, he can look after his own kids with that.
 
jessie said:
A very minor question, but the 'nearly £2000 pm' income IS received? Is the general opinion that part of this was DSS Benefits ? I think DSS benefits stop once the person is in hospital for more than X weeks, so would being held on remand be similar? I suppose all pensions etc continue though. No mortgage, no living expenses, nothing to spend it on while on remand I expect? That must be building up to a tidy sum in one of his accounts.
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Just had a quick read of government benefits in prison and what you have outlined sounds about right.
Including that he keeps his private pension.

snipped this from a quote by Michael Sams ( Stephanie Slater murder and Julie Dart kidnap )


He also advised younger criminals to invest their "gains" in a private pension so that when they retire in prison they will have a steady income.
He wrote: "There may be a moral here for younger inmates who are destined to spend most of their life in and out of prison. Every time they go out, I would recommend they invest a little of their 'gains' in a private pension scheme. Then when they finally retire in prison, they too can look forward to receiving private pensions each month!"

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2007/apr/18/crime.penal
 
Alyce said:
Just had a quick read of government benefits in prison and what you have outlined sounds about right.
Including that he keeps his private pension.

snipped this from a quote by Michael Sams ( Stephanie Slater murder and Julie Dart kidnap )


He also advised younger criminals to invest their "gains" in a private pension so that when they retire in prison they will have a steady income.
He wrote: "There may be a moral here for younger inmates who are destined to spend most of their life in and out of prison. Every time they go out, I would recommend they invest a little of their 'gains' in a private pension scheme. Then when they finally retire in prison, they too can look forward to receiving private pensions each month!"

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2007/apr/18/crime.penal
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Wow there's a name from the past. I worked that story. Two weeks we knew Stephanie was kidnapped and were sworn to press silence by the police. Worked a solid 48 hour shift when he was arrested. AFAIK they never did find most of the ransom he got.
 
Cherwell said:
Do people still use the term 'Continental quilt' for duvet? Just a thought.
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I grew up in Nottinghamshire and no-one would ever talk about a duvet, always a quilt. I think that's pretty common in the midlands at least, and possibly the north.
 
Quilt in my older generation family. But duvet for me.
 
A quilt = to me - is a quilted bedcover that sits on top of a bed. A duvet is much larger, needs a cover and is larger than the mattress, whereas a quilt is mattress sized. FWIW
 
ColourPurple said:
It was on one of the links like the who.is link that somebody posted last week. It said something like last server change April

ETA found it

sykic.co.uk timeline

30 September 2016, WHOIS information updated

17 April 2016, Web server change
Apache

14 March 2016, Page title change
Sykic – Crafts Arts Kinetics Engineering

https://www.avidom.uk/sykic.co.uk
Click to expand...

It was me that posted it. I was querying who had access to update the info last September.
 
I'd be interested to hear the medical evidence- especially about his miraculous powers of rejuvenation after that pair of panto villains hit him in the stomach, knowing he'd just had surgery (I wonder if they twirled their moustaches and giggled at the same time?). It's incredible that IS was such a brave little soldier- nobody even noticed his pain then.
 
Cherwell said:
Wouldn't it! They did retrieve something, as this reference from the prosecution's opening speech shows:

“A standing order from Bailey to Stewart was modified that same afternoon, and changed to the defendant’s advantage - a standing order from £600 to £4000 - to transfer from Helen’s account to Stewart’s. Although an attempt has been made to clear computer history at the house, this small fragment of information was found.”

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/live-day-one-murder-trial-12427078

Does "an attempt to clear history" sound like it wasn't completely successful?
Click to expand...

So the police, or their computer sleuths, had managed to ascertain an 'attempt' had been made then. Which sounds like as Cherwell says, he may have left something still there that incriminates him. Will we find out?
 
@ColourPurple Speedy good health wishes. Avoid lifting any drain covers, playing bowls and visiting tips! :)
 
Moll said:
The last witness will be someone from IS's schooldays who will testify that whenever he wanted to get out of a tight spot, he said Joe and Nick had done it.
Click to expand...

If these two were mentioned in JS's diaries, as we are told, then do we take it they DO exist? That hasn't been defined. Nor has the context in which they were mentioned by JS.
 
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