GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #4

[Lit Up]

Does anybody know what's happening at court tomorrow? I left early today. Have the prosecution finished? Is it the defence? Is it IS himself?

 

[Squamous]

I've gone back to Helen's book to find out what she did with her rings. She had her wedding and engagement rings combined into a ring for her right hand and, as JS had promised her a yellow diamond for fiftieth, she had a stacking ring made for each side of it, one set with nine tiny yellow diamonds and the other with five to symbolise their wedding anniversary of 9th May.

I really hope Helen was wearing these rings when she was found and that they are now safe with her brother or mum.

 

[Lit Up]

I have had a search on Mumsnet using a variety of words and phrases around that date and I can't find anything that relates to it.
She could have posted there as the stepmother of adult sons...people post there for all kind of reasons. But nothing in the search around those dates jumps out at me.


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We know that IS was "skykic" or whatever. Do we know any of HB's online accounts? (other than the planet grief blog). As you know a lot of people recycle usernames across accounts. So if we knew one username, then it would be easier to find her out in other places online. We all know that she was an avid social media user. She WILL have accounts on various websites. There was the Merry Widows forum which annoyingly was re-vamped in July 2016 (and I can't find the archive); there was the WAY forum (which is now fee-based). There was a MW Facebook group which is apparently "Closed". And she may have posted on mumsnet. It would be nice to find out what username she posted under. Maybe between all the sleuths on this website, we can find out!

 

[Alyce]

Does anybody know what's happening at court tomorrow? I left early today. Have the prosecution finished? Is it the defence? Is it IS himself?

Tara didnt say, but there was a line in msm said Pros had finished today...will find the link for you

So it should be IS - but I would not be surprised to find he sends in a sick note again !

 

[Alyce]

Just bringing this back for Lit Up

The prosecution is expected to conclude its case today before the defence begins tomorrow.
Last updated Mon 6 Feb 2017


http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/upda...ins-in-trial-of-author-found-dead-in-cesspit/

 

[neteditor]

I often wondered what "something special" he must have had to capture the heart of an intelligent, funny, popular, classy lady like Helen. Everyone says what a wonderful, gentle, kind man he is. He can't be that AND a cold blooded premeditated murderer, can he? I keep hoping it was some awful spur of the moment accident, so that it can't be true that Helen was conned by a sociopath, but that doesn't account for months, possibly years, of drugging, and the truly shocking means of Helen's disposal... and that's before we even think about what must have happened to Boris!

I've said before, I've attended a heck of a lot of court cases, including quite a few murder trials. One thing that always struck me is that usually, at the end of the prosecution evidence, you're left thinking the defendant is banged to rights and there's no doubt about it. Then as the defence case progresses the doubts do creep in.

Most often, by the time the jury is sent out, you're completely lost and just thankful it's not your decision to make. There's no way of knowing which way a jury will go, most of the time. We must expect to have our opinions on IS altered by the defence, or at least have an open mind that they might be. That is the defence's job after all... reasonable doubt!

I'm very interested for the defence case to start and see where they will lead us.

 

[pinklilies]

Sophia Hersh is a jeweller, who knew Helen Bailey because in June 2014 Helen wanted an engagement ring model she had previously created. Julia tells jurors: “We created the original ring from her marriage to John Sinfield and we remodelled this in 2016. “On March 8, 2016 she came to my premises with a man she introduced me to as Ian Stewart. “She said she had met someone new, explained they were engaged, and that she was looking for an engagement ring. “We discussed design ideas for just over an hour. Stewart was there as well but Helen was the one interested in discussing specifics. “Ian Stewart was a little bit detached from the process, not particularly engaged, so I very much discussed things with Helen throughout the visit. “We settled on a design and spoke about prices. Helen loved pink diamonds, which are the rarest of the three colour options we were discussing. “The price for the ring was likely to vary from £11,000 to £14,000.

Bet he was detached, all that money 'wasted' on a ring! I've not caught up (7 hours behind [emoji30]) I can imagine the more I read, the more this ring never materialises....


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[snoopydog]

We know that IS was "skykic" or whatever. Do we know any of HB's online accounts? (other than the planet grief blog). As you know a lot of people recycle usernames across accounts. So if we knew one username, then it would be easier to find her out in other places online. We all know that she was an avid social media user. She WILL have accounts on various websites. There was the Merry Widows forum which annoyingly was re-vamped in July 2016 (and I can't find the archive); there was the WAY forum (which is now fee-based). There was a MW Facebook group which is apparently "Closed". And she may have posted on mumsnet. It would be nice to find out what username she posted under. Maybe between all the sleuths on this website, we can find out!

The Facebook page is posted under your own name because it's linked to your profile

I'd make a guess any alter ego name would be dog related....

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[Cherwell]

Let's not forget, it's not all over for the prosecution yet. Not only will they have the opportunity to cross-examine IS and any other defence witnesses, but they get to sum up their case in a closing speech after the defence case is concluded.

Defence of course gets the last word with their closing speech.
Then it's the judge's turn

 

[pinklilies]

“In March Helen told me Stewart had been poorly but he was finally out of hospital. “Our email moved on to more exciting things and we moved on to the engagement. “Helen said Stewart was concerned the price for the ring was too much, and I offered her a £500 discount. The final cost was going to be £13,550. “At the beginning of April Helen thanked me for the discount, she said had Stewart been well enough he would have come down to see me. “I sent her details of the wedding bands and pricing, I didn’t hear back. “I sent a follow up email on April 21, but never got a response. “The wedding band was going to be £920 - so the total cost would be about £14,500.”

Smh, the very next post...helen at least thought she loved him but he didn't love her. Grumbling that it was too much when he had plenty enough in his accounts. And, I bet she even offered to contribute.


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[BatFace]

The posing was probably nothing to do with him so I wouldn't read into it too much tbh....The photographer would have placed him there to balance the image.


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There's a fair bit of balancing needed there, to be fair. Like, he takes up the same space as the other three people.

 

[Squamous]

I think a big part of what he had that was special was time. He had no dependent children and no job, he could be there night and day for someone who needed someone to be there for her.

I can't see how much doubt the defence can insert given the tight timelines and all the circumstantial stuff. Still, by all accounts his barrister is a feisty one and I'm sure will do his best.

 

[Joely 123]

Helen writes about rings.

http://planetgrief.com/2012/02/13/the-ring-thing/

Dear Helen - such an honest and beautifully written piece. Maybe - just maybe - she did want to marry 'in style' to celebrate such a most momentous change in her life to those darkest days of grief.
Makes us all even more outraged by his disrespect of her - and everything she may have wished for.
Before the final treachery of where he chose to hide her, to save his skin, access himself to all she and JS had worked for together - before her murder - before drugging her, keeping her away from family and friends - he had undermined all she was in her very being - he had attacked the spirit of the woman he proposed to in his view (according to his statements) of her writing (too personal) being a 'hobby'.
And he took away her most beloved love in Boris - Boris was THE most precious - far beyond diamond rings.

 

[pinklilies]

http://www.hirshlondon.com


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She had fine taste did helen. Don't know how she fell for him! I bet he was thinking what the hell when she took him there. I'm sure a few years down the line (had she still been here) when it was all over she would laugh and say, what the heck was going on in my head?? And she'd be quickly on her blog saying don't rush in to anything!! It's simply shocking.


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[sar2them1984]

Yes, wasn't it Becky Watts case - where they tried to get info from the Demetrius brothers phones ( I know there's an apostrophe missing somewhere but it's late ! )
They got a few messages, knew there were more , but could not see the message detail.

Bit behind but yes you are right they were able to retrieve some but not all of the messages despite detailed forensic analysis and full co operation from service provider

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[DollyDiamond]

Dear Helen - such an honest and beautifully written piece. Maybe - just maybe - she did want to marry 'in style' to celebrate such a most momentous change in her life to those darkest days of grief.
Makes us all even more outraged by his disrespect of her - and everything she may have wished for.
Before the final treachery of where he chose to hide her, to save his skin, access himself to all she and JS had worked for together - before her murder - before drugging her, keeping her away from family and friends - he had undermined all she was in her very being - he had attacked the spirit of the woman he proposed to in his view (according to his statements) of her writing (too personal) being a 'hobby'.
And he took away her most beloved love in Boris - Boris was THE most precious - far beyond diamond rings.

Beautifully worded Joely.

That Helen was literally on the verge of commissioning that £14,000 engagement ring in April, (and the jeweller must have been expecting at least a deposit imminently), it does sadly seem to me it was probably a fairly important additional impetus to the murder.

 

[Lit Up]

Just bringing this back for Lit Up

Thanks. If they didn't make their closing remarks (do they?) then I'm guessing they haven't quite finished. The court was packed today but I think a lot of people were disappointed. They were expecting something more significant in proceedings but they were faced with, well the first two witnesses - utter incompetents. That psychiatric nurse. My god. She was in her mid forties and came in like she was dressed for a nightclub, was probably the prosecution's worst ever witness. Clearly had no recollection of events, hadn't read her own statement, I honestly think she made up the whole "past tense" thing because it seemed to "fit". She actually didn't convince me at all that Ian had said he saw HB walking down the lane with her dog. She didn't properly account for the change in account from "I just found a note". I don't even think Ian is so stupid as to change that key detail. As I say, an utter shame if genuinely sick people need to rely on this utter excuse of a public sector worker.

 

[Joely 123]

Bet he was detached, all that money 'wasted' on a ring! I've not caught up (7 hours behind [emoji30]) I can imagine the more I read, the more this ring never materialises....

You're absolutely right pinklillies - IS was 'unwell' on the day that he was to visit Sophia Hersh - Jeweller - and, according to her statement, he didn't respond to her email to Helen of 21st April - or have the decency, nor the confidence to be in touch with Sophia H. IF he thought Helen was missing - wouldn't he have wished to have the ring SHE chose waiting for her on her return. (Piglets flying across the sky).

 

[Alyce]

Thanks. If they didn't make their closing remarks (do they?) then I'm guessing they haven't quite finished. The court was packed today but I think a lot of people were disappointed. They were expecting something more significant in proceedings but they were faced with, well the first two witnesses - utter incompetents. That psychiatric nurse. My god. She was in her mid forties and came in like she was dressed for a nightclub, was probably the prosecution's worst ever witness. Clearly had no recollection of events, hadn't read her own statement, I honestly think she made up the whole "past tense" thing because it seemed to "fit". She actually didn't convince me at all that Ian had said he saw HB walking down the lane with her dog. She didn't properly account for the change in account from "I just found a note". I don't even think Ian is so stupid as to change that key detail. As I say, an utter shame if genuinely sick people need to rely on this utter excuse of a public sector worker.

Prosecution dont do closing arguments until the Defence have presented their case....so it could be IS first up in the witness box tomorrow.

 

[cottonweaver]

Thanks. If they didn't make their closing remarks (do they?) then I'm guessing they haven't quite finished. The court was packed today but I think a lot of people were disappointed. They were expecting something more significant in proceedings but they were faced with, well the first two witnesses - utter incompetents. That psychiatric nurse. My god. She was in her mid forties and came in like she was dressed for a nightclub, was probably the prosecution's worst ever witness. Clearly had no recollection of events, hadn't read her own statement, I honestly think she made up the whole "past tense" thing because it seemed to "fit". She actually didn't convince me at all that Ian had said he saw HB walking down the lane with her dog. She didn't properly account for the change in account from "I just found a note". I don't even think Ian is so stupid as to change that key detail. As I say, an utter shame if genuinely sick people need to rely on this utter excuse of a public sector worker.

Honestly wouldn't have had a clue that it went that badly from over here, remotely and just reading the updates. Because it's so controversial will paste up what she said and you can have a look at it Lit Up.

Unless he throws a sickie, looks like he will be on tomorrow, as Defence will do an opening.
I would have thought he'll be up in the afternoon then.