GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #4

[Alyce]

 

[Tortoise]

Finding it odd this is a prosecution witness.....


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I thought about this. I actually think it's quite good to have prosecution witnesses like this. In a way it forewarns the jury - what you see is not what you get. He will be charming. etc.

 

[ZaZara]

The hair analysis showed prolonged use of zoplicone though rather than a single dose which makes me think she was taking it more regularly than you would headache tablets. Plus the dose where she'd fallen asleep for 5 hours that she mentioned to her mother she never mentioned having a headache or having just taken anything for it before she fell to sleep, as you might do if you were trying to work out why you'd fallen asleep. Morning headaches are quite unusual too I guess.

So I think it's possible that he had to wait till she had a headache but more likely that he was either putting it in her herbal/vitamin supplements or in her powdered tea.

Wherever he put it, it must have been something personal, something only HB would use.
There has been no mention, so far, of other members of the household or friends falling asleep unexpectedly.

I wonder if the Police searched for HB's herbal tea and remedies, and if they did, if they located a contaminated batch. I assume IS got rid of it ASAP.

 

[Squamous]

I honestly hadn't imagined he killed her upstairs( eg. on a bedspread ) due to it being more difficult for him to carry her down but equally am not 100% if her workstation/computer that morning was upstairs or downstairs.
anyone know?

I thought it was her iPad? I pictured her on the sofa. Her mum said that HB went back to bed for the five hour nap though so I guess that's more likely to be the case.

 

[MillyM]

I thought I was getting mixed up and that it must have been the Royston cleaner rather than the Broadstairs cleaner who'd mentioned not changing the bedding. Was it both?

From Day 1:

"Cleaner reports changes to routine at Broadstairs house

Mr Trimmer said: “The cleaner at the address in Broadstairs was used to Helen being a creature of routine.

“She was told to clean as normal but not to change the bedding in their bedroom, She was told that twice.

“She saw women’s clothes dumped on the washing basket, and not folded, which was unusual as Helen would always fold them.

“She also saw clothes were hung across chairs to dry and this was odd because Helen always used the dryer.”


http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/live-day-one-murder-trial-12427078

 

[ColourPurple]

Wherever he put it, it must have been something personal, something only HB would use.
There has been no mention, so far, of other members of the household or friends falling asleep unexpectedly.

I wonder if the Police searched for HB's herbal tea and remedies, and if they did, if they located a contaminated batch. I assume IS got rid of it ASAP.

There's been no mention of them testing any sadly. Somebody (her brother?) mentioned how when Helen stayed at theirs she brought little labelled plastic bags of her supplements... so yes only she would use them and yes they would be easy for IS to dispose of.

 

[Squamous]

From Day 1:

"Cleaner reports changes to routine at Broadstairs house

Mr Trimmer said: “The cleaner at the address in Broadstairs was used to Helen being a creature of routine.

“She was told to clean as normal but not to change the bedding in their bedroom, She was told that twice.

“She saw women’s clothes dumped on the washing basket, and not folded, which was unusual as Helen would always fold them.

“She also saw clothes were hung across chairs to dry and this was odd because Helen always used the dryer.”


http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/live-day-one-murder-trial-12427078

I think this must be wrong as it's identical to the testimony we've just had from the Royston cleaner.

 

[ColourPurple]

From Day 1:

"Cleaner reports changes to routine at Broadstairs house

Mr Trimmer said: “The cleaner at the address in Broadstairs was used to Helen being a creature of routine.

“She was told to clean as normal but not to change the bedding in their bedroom, She was told that twice.

“She saw women’s clothes dumped on the washing basket, and not folded, which was unusual as Helen would always fold them.

“She also saw clothes were hung across chairs to dry and this was odd because Helen always used the dryer.”


http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/live-day-one-murder-trial-12427078

Thanks. Hmmm has Mr Trimmer confused Broadstairs with Royston? or were both cleaners told not to change the bedding and also both noticed the washing basket and drying clothes ?

 

[MillyM]

It is...confusing.

 

[ColourPurple]

I thought about this. I actually think it's quite good to have prosecution witnesses like this. In a way it forewarns the jury - what you see is not what you get. He will be charming. etc.

I think he helped the prosecution because he confirmed that IS never mentioned Nick or Joe to him.

 

[ZaZara]

I honestly hadn't imagined he killed her upstairs( eg. on a bedspread ) due to it being more difficult for him to carry her down but equally am not 100% if her workstation/computer that morning was upstairs or downstairs.
anyone know?

No need to carry her at all.

I copy myself from #Thread 3

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...yston-11-April-2016-3&p=13099992#post13099992

IMHO with help of a duvet, a bedcover and two plastic bags it is possible for a person with little strength to move a body from the first floor into a wheelie bin without ever having to lift or carry it.
It would take some planning but then, this entire crime oozes lengthy and detailed preparation with a focus on a very limited use of force. A woman might do this - use of poison ! - but also someone who could not rely on his or her physical health.

 

[ColourPurple]

I honestly hadn't imagined he killed her upstairs( eg. on a bedspread ) due to it being more difficult for him to carry her down but equally am not 100% if her workstation/computer that morning was upstairs or downstairs.
anyone know?

I think it depends on what the bedspread was like. For example if it was soft blankety type then she may have also used it to wrap round her on the sofa in the mornings while she had a cuppa and caught up on her emails, then popped it back on the bed at night.

 

[DollyDiamond]

At definite odds with what Helen had been saying to almost all who knew her. As suspected, Helen appears to have been telling everyone she was going to get married at some stage, but no date set. Then more confirmed plans with a venue in later stages. All the while, it seems IS had no intention of marrying her, or telling anyone they were to be married.

Yes that's very clear now isn't it, he had zero intention of marrying her. He should be so lucky that such an amazing lady was prepared to take him on! This makes my blood boil!

 

[ColourPurple]

Agree. I was finding it puzzling that they had a bedspread and an eiderdown

If the cleaner means duvet rather than eiderdown then yeah I have duvets and then throws/bedspreads on top.

This kind of set up:

http://www.laredoute.co.uk/ppdp/m/prod-350033865.aspx?

 

[Tortoise]

So we're expected to believe that on that Monday morning,

Helen stripped the bed that had suddenly become unwashably soiled from his 3 1/2 week old operation scar leaking through the dressing on it,
helped load the duvet into the car to go to the tip, and
left the bed without a duvet.

Buying it?

 

[Tortoise]

I'll pass on this afternoon's updates, if anyone else feels like giving it a whirl.

 

[ColourPurple]

So we're expected to believe that on that Monday morning,

Helen stripped the bed that had suddenly become unwashably soiled from his 3 1/2 week old operation scar leaking through the dressing on it,
helped load the duvet into the car to go to the tip, and
left the bed without a duvet.

Buying it?

Except IS slipped up and told the cleaner that (in his weakened post op state ) *he* had changed the bedding

[FONT=&quot]“He told me not to change the bedding because he had already done that"[/FONT]

 

[Tortoise]

Except IS slipped up and told the cleaner that (in his weakened post op state ) *he* had changed the bedding

[FONT=&amp]“He told me not to change the bedding because he had already done that"[/FONT]

Ohyes,somethingelsetoaddtomylist

Haha just thought I'd leave a demonstration of the problem we were discussing this morning, in case anyone was wondering what we were talking about!!!!!

 

[Cherwell]

Thanks. Hmmm has Mr Trimmer confused Broadstairs with Royston? or were both cleaners told not to change the bedding and also both noticed the washing basket and drying clothes ?

More likely the original reporter made the error.

 

[snoopydog]

Ohyes,somethingelsetoaddtomylist

Haha just thought I'd leave a demonstration of the problem we were discussing this morning, in case anyone was wondering what we were talking about!!!!!

Who here would change the bedding on their beds IF they had a cleaner who usually does it?

Not me your honour [emoji1384]not a chance


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