GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #8

[Tortoise]

It'll be pretty unusual if TaraC continues her live blog during summing up. I don't think I've ever seen journo tweets of that stage of the proceedings before.

 

[jenspired]

It'll be pretty unusual if TaraC continues her live blog during summing up. I don't think I've ever seen journo tweets of that stage of the proceedings before.

Can we beg her via the Twittersphere to continue or is it just not allowed?

Oh what a tangled web we weave

 

[neteditor]

It'll be pretty unusual if TaraC continues her live blog during summing up. I don't think I've ever seen journo tweets of that stage of the proceedings before.

Usually get an end of case round-up after the Judge has finished his bit. IF the jury is out for long enough that is

 

[Florrie]

Didn't realise that there would be no Twitter reports during the summing up phase. Is that usual?


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[neteditor]

I'm pretty sure Dolly said she thought he was innocent.


*waits for clout around the ear* :laughing:

Careful, I think she got those spiky stillettoes on earlier

 

[LozDa]

Usually get an end of case round-up after the Judge has finished his bit. IF the jury is out for long enough that is

Would a forum member be able to post what was said during summing up, if they were present? Or would that be frowned upon/disallowed? Is there a reason the summing up stage isn't reported? It seems to me that this would be the most effective stage to report! Strange it's not done unless it's not allowed...?

 

[Cherwell]

It'll be pretty unusual if TaraC continues her live blog during summing up. I don't think I've ever seen journo tweets of that stage of the proceedings before.

Is that the judge's summing up, or does it extend to the closing arguments as well?

 

[BlueMosaic]

I'm sure, for me, there will be another case along soon that will involve me as much as this one. Perhaps that is the old journo in me that can't let go.

During this case, I have made two wonderful new friends, we have moved our contact from here to other places and I am feeling blessed. I also think Helen would approve of women coming together in friendship as a result of this awful mess. Hunkerdown is getting a Boris/Bailey. I feel I've experienced an incredible example of selflessness, kindness and understanding from the actions of the dear Mr John B, and his partner, who seem to be able to spread warmth and love despite their tragic loss and trauma of this awful trial. Despite the horror of it all, I feel Helen has given me some wonderful gifts. I never met her, but I know I will never forget her. I will be buying all of her books.

There is a case coming up around May, probably at Cambridge Crown Court, which, horrifically, also involves a man accused of killing his wife (and smothering with a pillow I have heard). The family lived near my older son in Cambridge. I fear it will be labelled an "honour" killing as the couple were from Pakistan. Honour comes into it no more than with IS.

What has come through to me on this board, along with the inspiration, thought and attention to detail, is the wish for good and love to prevail over the sordid IS. I love Helen's tips for writers, and hope she continues to inspire young (and older) women.

In her tips, she says to keep a notebook to put down ideas, and refers to always having one in her back pocket. That probably stopped after JS died?

 

[ZaZara]

So Christian's feel that just as they share in the resurrection when their own sufferings will be transformed as Christ's were, so too must they forgive as Jesus forgave, even on the Cross when being murdered. "Forgive them Father, they know not what they do".

RSBM

I'd hesitate to contradict any bishop, however, this is the point where I respectfully beg to differ. Christians are under no obligation to forgive anyone. The example that you mention is not so much about forgiveness as it is about delegation, and that is a totally different matter.

I first noticed this as a child in school, and this alleged heresy got me in a lot of trouble, but I never wavered. Jesus on the cross does not forgive, he requests his Father to do so, and the outcome is unclear.

My family knows my last wishes: should I perish for instance in a terrorist attack I do not want to be remembered in the same service as the murderers, nor do I want any mention of the terrorist attack being the price we pay for our sins. (Happened in Germany, where the surviving families of the downed MH17 were forced to listen to this during the official memorial service. Happened in The Netherlands where the man who drove his car into the crowd on Queen's Day was labelled a 'victim' like the innocent people whose lives he took.)

For Jamie and Oliver, it must be an almost impossible task to separate the father they love from the father who most likely will be convicted for a terrible murder.
I hope they will find all the support that they need and that no one forces them to forgive.

I quote psychologist Dr Harriet Lerner:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/30/...m-sorry.html?smid=tw-nythealth&smtyp=cur&_r=2

“It’s not our place to tell anyone to forgive or not to forgive,” Dr. Lerner said in an interview. She disputes popular thinking that failing to forgive is bad for one’s health and can lead to a life mired in bitterness and hate.

“There is no one path to healing,” she said. “There are many roads to letting go of corrosive emotions without forgiving, like therapy, meditation, medication, even swimming.” Hardest of all, Dr. Lerner said, is to forgive a nonapologetic offender (...)

 

[dalsglen]

Have been away the last few days for a family funeral, forgot to take my kindle with me!!! :banghead: over 2000 posts to catch up on, I think I nearly cried lol

I can only wonder what is said behind closed doors my IS's team, this stuff spewing from his mouth is unreal.

 

[Annad]

The Judge said the new evidence was "extracts from a book". I'm thinking several or more paragraphs from perhaps Life after death and a dog named Boris which may have a bearing on what IS has used in his defence. It would have to be more important than just more evidence of his embroidering of the facts of their courtship though to warrant this? Maybe he's plagerised parts of it

It would be justice if words from Helen's book was used as evidence! It would be like Helen giving evidence. I followed another trial in Australia (Gerald Baden-Clay who killed his wife, Alison) and her diaries were read out in court. And they revealed all the horrible things he did to her! It was like she came back from the dead and pointed her finger at him.

 

[neteditor]

Re: Summing Up

There is no legal reason for summing up not to be reported. The national press and main broadcast news outlets likely don't bother because it is literally repeating everything we've already heard.

If the jury looked like it was going to be out overnight, they may do a final piece after the Judge has finished his summing up. If the jury is back before then of course they won't they'll do a found guilty (or otherwise) piece. If found guilty they will have lots of backgrounders already written. We would always have a guilty and not guilty version ready to roll before the jury came back and just fire off the appropriate one as soon as we knew which way it went.

 

[Alyce]

Just went back and checked Becky Watts threads .......
We did get journo tweets of the closing speeches for all defendants ( 4 ) and The Mirror also ran their live blog ( same as Tara is doing for this case ).
So there's hope that we will get the closings tomorrow and Friday.

The only thing we did not get was the Judge's summing up - it was reported later, but not live.

 

[Moll]

Didn't quite keep my resolution to stay off till tomorrow. It never occurred to me that we might not get the prosecution summing up, thanks for explaining, neteditor.
Does this mean we could be starved of news tomorrow while Mr Trimmer is speaking? I quite see it will be repetitive to a large extent, but I wanted to hear him say it again!

ETA I see from Alyce's post that there's hope!

 

[Moll]

Re: Summing Up

RSBM
We would always have a guilty and not guilty version ready to roll before the jury came back and just fire off the appropriate one as soon as we knew which way it went.

I'd love to see the Not Guilty version for this.

 

[neteditor]

Didn't quite keep my resolution to stay off till tomorrow. It never occurred to me that we might not get the prosecution summing up, thanks for explaining, neteditor.
Does this mean we could be starved of news tomorrow while Mr Trimmer is speaking? I quite see it will be repetitive to a large extent, but I wanted to hear him say it again!

ETA I see from Alyce's post that there's hope!

I do hope we do get Tara's live reports. It would be very useful to know how the counsel frame the evidence especially after such a long trial.

 

[BatFace]

I'd love to see the Not Guilty version for this.

I was just thinking that!

 

[Cherwell]

Re: Summing Up

There is no legal reason for summing up not to be reported. The national press and main broadcast news outlets likely don't bother because it is literally repeating everything we've already heard.

If the jury looked like it was going to be out overnight, they may do a final piece after the Judge has finished his summing up. If the jury is back before then of course they won't they'll do a found guilty (or otherwise) piece. If found guilty they will have lots of backgrounders already written. We would always have a guilty and not guilty version ready to roll before the jury came back and just fire off the appropriate one as soon as we knew which way it went.

Just went back and checked Becky Watts threads .......
We did get journo tweets of the closing speeches for all defendants ( 4 ) and The Mirror also ran their live blog ( same as Tara is doing for this case ).
So there's hope that we will get the closings tomorrow and Friday.

The only thing we did not get was the Judge's summing up - it was reported later, but not live.

aaaaand I've been away checking the Joanna Yeates trial, which was the first case I followed on here.
All of it was reported live by journos on Twitter - closing speeches and Judge's summing up.
So we may be lucky.

 

[Florrie]

RSBM

I'd hesitate to contradict any bishop, however, this is the point where I respectfully beg to differ. Christians are under no obligation to forgive anyone. The example that you mention is not so much about forgiveness as it is about delegation, and that is a totally different matter.

I first noticed this as a child in school, and this alleged heresy got me in a lot of trouble, but I never wavered. Jesus on the cross does not forgive, he requests his Father to do so, and the outcome is unclear.

My family knows my last wishes: should I perish for instance in a terrorist attack I do not want to be remembered in the same service as the murderers, nor do I want any mention of the terrorist attack being the price we pay for our sins. (Happened in Germany, where the surviving families of the downed MH17 were forced to listen to this during the official memorial service. Happened in The Netherlands where the man who drove his car into the crowd on Queen's Day was labelled a 'victim' like the innocent people whose lives he took.)

For Jamie and Oliver, it must be an almost impossible task to separate the father they love from the father who most likely will be convicted for a terrible murder.
I hope they will find all the support that they need and that no one forces them to forgive.

I quote psychologist Dr Harriet Lerner:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/30/...m-sorry.html?smid=tw-nythealth&smtyp=cur&_r=2

“It’s not our place to tell anyone to forgive or not to forgive,” Dr. Lerner said in an interview. She disputes popular thinking that failing to forgive is bad for one’s health and can lead to a life mired in bitterness and hate.

“There is no one path to healing,” she said. “There are many roads to letting go of corrosive emotions without forgiving, like therapy, meditation, medication, even swimming.” Hardest of all, Dr. Lerner said, is to forgive a nonapologetic offender (...)

Excellent post and particularly so with regard to Jamie and Oliver. Particularly Oliver who seems to still want a relationship with his Dad ...or has wanted to over the past six months.

I know that in the case of the Green River Killer he was emotionless while various bereaved relatives ranted and raved at him during victim impact statements. It was the man who told him that "my religion requires me to forgive you, and you are forgiven" who provoked an emotional response from him.

I know many people have been able to let go of very destructive feelings by being able to forgive really awful crimes. Not sure I could do it though and as Dr Lerner says, there are other ways of dealing with those powerful emotions.



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[Cherwell]

I'd love to see the Not Guilty version for this.