UK - Huge fire rips through Grenfell Tower, Latimer Road, White City, London, June 2017

[gregjrichards]

The K&C Borough Council Leader has stepped down:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40362317

There should be a mass firing of everyone involved in this disaster.

 

[Ellmau]

You can't fire anyone who was elected to office, because they're not employed.

We've been talking about "the council" as if it was a monolith, but actually there are two lots of people involved: the elected councillors, who make major decisions and approve things, and the paid employees, who do the day to day work and advise the council. It could be people from both sections will bear some of the blame - but we don't know for sure at this stage.

 

[silverjug]

The council high rise flat developments were built cheaply and quickly, and unfortunately concrete as a material doesn't look attractive for long in our wet climate. However they were high density housing solutions to high density housing problems, ie they replaced the insanitary and overcrowded inner city slums which were being progressively demolished in the 1950s and 1960s.

I suspect a lot of younger Brits simply do not know how bad the UK's housing situation was in the 1940s and 1950s due to the massive loss of housing to German bombing during the war. There was an urgent need to replace that, as well as gradually replacing the slums that remained. Like them or not, but tower blocks were a solution that those problems.

The country's financial situation was also pretty crap. We did not finish paying off US lend-lease loans from WWII until the turn of the present millennium. Almost up to the end of the 1970s we had strict exchange controls in place affecting ordinary citizens, which meant clear limits on how much foreign currency you could buy and how much sterling you could take out of the country. My parents' bank used to publish a small booklet at the beginning of each summer setting out how many lira, pesetas or various types of francs you could buy against fixed exchange rates. And then we had the regular sight of the Chancellor of the Exchequer going cap in hand for bailouts from the IMF. By the end of the 1970s the UK was frankly BUST.

Unfortunately I do remember, my parents waited 13 years for council accommadation and that was in the early 1950's. Then it was because my grandmother remarried and we lived in a "pre-fab", which we lived in for some considerable time.

I remember the cap on taking sterling out, iirc it was £25.00. It was a dire situation adding in 3 three day week and the proposal for petrol rationing, and remember the ration books.

I said in a previous post I lived in a maisonette near 4 high rise buildings and well remember the money thrown at these places. Underfloor electric heating which no-one used because it was far too expensive, garbage disposal systems which used gallons of water and stank too high heaven, and never worked, etc., etc,.

The tower block served a purpose and mass housing was needed but I am lucky I never had to live in one.

Just my own opinion and no offence intended but the UK has been broken for a long time.

 

[gregjrichards]

Sky News U.K - Prime Minister's spokesperson 600 high rise buildings in England alone have similar cladding to Grenfell Tower. The three tested so far have been classed as combustible.

 

[Jax49]

Sky News U.K - Prime Minister's spokesperson 600 high rise buildings in England alone have similar cladding to Grenfell Tower. The three tested so far have been classed as combustible.

Reuters is reporting the same.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-fire-cladding-idUSKBN19D0W5

An estimated 600 high-rise buildings in England contain cladding similar to that used on a London tower block which caught fire, killing at least 79 people, officials said on Thursday.

Flames spread rapidly up the 24-storey residential Grenfell Tower last week, trapping people inside, in what was Britain's worst blaze since World War Two. Exterior cladding added during a refurbishment may have played a part, residents have said.

 

[Jacobite]

This was the just perfect storm for a disaster. A refrigerator that was supposed to be more green exploded like a bomb causing a high temperature fire. The flames exit through a kitchen window and ignite the siding that goes up as if it was made of napalm. The fire brigade think they have the kitchen fire out. They don't think to look outside. After all, Grenfell was supposed to be almost fireproof. The fire raced up the exterior cladding and entered the flats through exploding windows and the burning siding turned into cyanide gas. To think that so many survived up to 3 hours in this is absolutely terrible.

 

[gregjrichards]

"Thousands of people are feared to be living in death traps after the government estimated 600 buildings have cladding like that used on fire-ravaged Grenfell Tower.

Samples from seven tower blocks have already tested as flammable and the government is now urgently trying to work out what other people are at risk.


The finding could lead to mass evacuations after Downing Street promised no one will have to live in an unsafe block."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/downing-street-reveals-600-buildings-10667305

 

[Ironside]

It isn't just homes that may have the lethal cladding. Hospitals, schools, libraries etc. could all have it as well.


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[Elainera]

Sky News U.K - Prime Minister's spokesperson 600 high rise buildings in England alone have similar cladding to Grenfell Tower. The three tested so far have been classed as combustible.

"Thousands of people are feared to be living in death traps after the government estimated 600 buildings have cladding like that used on fire-ravaged Grenfell Tower.

Samples from seven tower blocks have already tested as flammable and the government is now urgently trying to work out what other people are at risk.


The finding could lead to mass evacuations after Downing Street promised no one will have to live in an unsafe block."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/downing-street-reveals-600-buildings-10667305

Those people must be terrified now. I would not stay one minute longer in such a building. Of course this can be a tough decision to make if you have nowhere else to go, not enough money to immediately rent space elsewhere, have a large family, etc. But I would not be able to sleep in such a building now, especially in a flat higher than, say, 2 floors.

 

[Elainera]

Could someone please post a picture of this cladding? How does it look? I would google but I'm not sure what exactly I should google for since there must different types of cladding, right? Some safe, some not.

 

[Ironside]

The flames exit through a kitchen window and ignite the siding that goes up as if it was made of napalm. The fire brigade think they have the kitchen fire out. They don't think to look outside. After all, Grenfell was supposed to be almost fireproof.

I suppose the fire service will now be mindful to check the exterior of all buildings before deciding the fire is out.

 

[Ellmau]

Camden Council is considering suing the Grenfell cladding provider, after checks confirmed that several of its blocks had the same substandard materials used 10 years ago: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...onsible-grenfell-cladding-accused-supply-sub/

Iterestingly, though:

One of the towers on the estate - called Taplow Tower - caught fire in 2012 but the blaze was contained. It raises the prospect that other factors on Grenfell Tower - as well as the cladding - contributed to its rapid spread.

Some of the wealthy purchasers of the expensive flats near where some of the Grenfell suvivors will be living are in a huff: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...s-criticised-unease-grenfell-families-moving/

Stupid of them as well as heartless, because those flats were always intended as social housing.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I'll believe that when it's confirmed by an official source. There's a LOT of fake news still going around.

Yes, I saw the video where the gentleman stated that. He also stated that he personally knew 40 Moroccan families from the tower that were missing (he himself was Moroccan ). I couldn't understand that because, with 6 flats per floor that would have been almost a third of the total occupants IMO that were missing. As of the latest figures 79 missing presumed dead I believe. Hopefully that number will not increase.

 

[Shiressleuth]

https://www.buildington.co.uk/new_developments/london_w14/warwick_road/kensington_row/id/3866

I think these properties may have already been intended for social/affordable housing - it' s often required by planners as a quid pro quo for allowing other development. Still, good news for the families, although some may not want to live in a high rise again even if it is brand new and high spec.

It should have adequate fire alarms, sprinklers and fire escapes hopefully as it is brand new.

Note for Elainera :
If you Google Rydon and then go to their website you will see the projects they have undertaken with pics so you can see what the cladding looks like.

 

[Shiressleuth]

It isn't just homes that may have the lethal cladding. Hospitals, schools, libraries etc. could all have it as well.


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Oh dear. I hope we don't see a repeat of these problems. It reminds me of the collapsing school building that entailed checks and work needing to be carried out in Scotland.

At least this is safe if it is not above a few floors tall. So schools and hospitals should be ok and will have adequate fire alarms and procedures in place- hopefully .

 

[Shiressleuth]

The renovations were inspected 16 times over two years:





https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ions-failed-to-stop-use-of-flammable-cladding

Somebody dropped the ball. Perhaps they did not check above 18metres. Flammable cladding is ok up to 18 metres. That could be approximately up to the 9th floor. This started on the 4th floor where flammable cladding is legal. Flammable cladding should be illegal at ANY height imo. Especially when the fumes are so deadly. Fumes don't stay below the 9th floor and it appears the cause of death was mainly those smoke and fumes. A terrible tragedy.

 

[gregjrichards]

Could someone please post a picture of this cladding? How does it look? I would google but I'm not sure what exactly I should google for since there must different types of cladding, right? Some safe, some not.

Reynobond Polyethylene Cladding

 

[gregjrichards]

"A woman thought to be missing and feared dead in the Grenfell Tower disaster has turned up alive in hospital.

Fadumo Ahmed’s picture was on posters put up on the streets around the site of the blaze as friends desperately searched for information but heard nothing.

Ms Ahmed, 32, lived on the 19th floor of the block and shared a heartbreaking call as the fire closed in, telling her mother: “I can’t get out. Goodbye.”

But it emerged yesterday the cleaner was found unconscious on the 18th floor by a fire crew who got her to safety outside.

Ms Ahmed has been in hospital since the fire eight days ago surrounded by her family, who had no idea of the appeals being made for her."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/happy-ending-among-despair-grenfell-10672570

Amazing!

 

[gregjrichards]

"Millionaire contractors were last night facing claims that they pocketed taxpayers’ cash to install fireproof cladding – only to fit cut-price flammable panels instead.

One local authority said it was considering legal action over the panels installed on several of its high-rise tower blocks, claiming they were not the safe ones it had paid for.

Camden council, in north London, made the allegations against contractor Rydon, which charged £66million to re-fit five of its high-rise blocks at the Chalcots Estate. Rydon was the company behind the controversial refurbishment of the doomed Grenfell Tower in North Kensington.

Harley Facades Ltd, which supplied the cladding panels, was also involved in both jobs.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-corners-pocket-difference.html#ixzz4kmZNTrbH

 

[LadyL]

oh boy ... some people are likely shaking in their boots right now

"Millionaire contractors were last night facing claims that they pocketed taxpayers’ cash to install fireproof cladding – only to fit cut-price flammable panels instead.

One local authority said it was considering legal action over the panels installed on several of its high-rise tower blocks, claiming they were not the safe ones it had paid for.

Camden council, in north London, made the allegations against contractor Rydon, which charged £66million to re-fit five of its high-rise blocks at the Chalcots Estate. Rydon was the company behind the controversial refurbishment of the doomed Grenfell Tower in North Kensington.

Harley Facades Ltd, which supplied the cladding panels, was also involved in both jobs.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-corners-pocket-difference.html#ixzz4kmZNTrbH