GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #11

[Phillb]

Hi Everyone, my first post..
It would certainly rule out NUA able to dump JY early Dec 25th which has been a common consensus in most quarters.

Right now on twitter and elsewhere, information is spreading that NUA's team have found a rock solid witness to corroborate NUA's movements for Dec 17 night and make the whole idea of NUA the murder suspect moot.

If that news is true, IMO it is beginning to look increasingly like any tip & some circumstantial evidence would probably have landed any No 44 resident or JY acquaintance with an arrest...

Fantastic first post that makes a lot of sense, and some excellent sentiments.
I've always said, and still say so now, that Jo's body was left at Longwood Lane in the early hours of Christmas morning. I could be proved to have egg on my face, and I will wipe it off graciously if i'm wrong

But I do feel very strongly about this, this is why I've always had doubts that V.T was implicated (On first reports he was out of the country for Christmas) But now it emerges he was here, but in Cambridge on Christmas Eve, so he couldn't have left the body at Longwood Lane.

Were not privvy to all the evidence the Police have, the hard facts, but everything is starting to point to this guy being innocent in my eyes. Gut instinct says he isn't the type to be able to lie coldy and get out of a murder rap. He must have been under immense pressure, and hard questioning. He never confessed in that situation. The Police certainly can't have anything real concrete to nail him with, and if these new rumours on Twitter are credible (a big IF) then the Police have made one big mistake, and it's possible the killer is still out there laughing.

I'm sure there is much more to come in this case.

 

[Lynn R]

Fantastic first post that makes a lot of sense, and some excellent sentiments.
I've always said, and still say so now, that Jo's body was left at Longwood Lane in the early hours of Christmas morning. I could be proved to have egg on my face, and I will wipe it off graciously if i'm wrong

But I do feel very strongly about this, this is why I've always had doubts that V.T was implicated (On first reports he was out of the country for Christmas) But now it emerges he was here, but in Cambridge on Christmas Eve, so he couldn't have left the body at Longwood Lane.

Were not privvy to all the evidence the Police have, the hard facts, but everything is starting to point to this guy being innocent in my eyes. Gut instinct says he isn't the type to be able to lie coldy and get out of a murder rap. He must have been under immense pressure, and hard questioning. He never confessed in that situation. The Police certainly can't have anything real concrete to nail him with, and if these new rumours on Twitter are credible (a big IF) then the Police have made one big mistake, and it's possible the killer is still out there laughing.

I'm sure there is much more to come in this case.

Not disagreeing - out of curiosity what makes you think the body was dumped early christmas day? The proximity of the body to the road making it difficult to be unfound for so long?

 

[Cerebral]

"Lynn R....Not disagreeing - out of curiosity what makes you think the body was dumped early christmas day? The proximity of the body to the road making it difficult to be unfound for so long? "

A lot of people think JY's body was dumped early on X'mas day...mostly on the assumption because though she died around Dec 17th, reported missing early Dec 20 with the ensuing massive publicity & search... the body itself was discovered at the first available opportunity in its final location.. Christmas morning 9am.

It was basically found slumped, on ground level, a few feet from the edge of a well traveled roadm by a short wall...(not clarified so far if it was slumped against wall). Even in a 1/2 foot of snow the body would have not been completely hidden, and in the back drop of a white snowy background all the more obvious..probably even to passing traffic.

We have not heard much about the old couple walking the dog.. but it is likely that if they were doing it 9AM Christmas morning.. they probably would have been that way in the preceding week..and if LE were lucky give them a considerably narrow window. LE may have also spoken to other regular pedestrian traffic from that road to get a 'window'.

 

[Phillb]

Not disagreeing - out of curiosity what makes you think the body was dumped early christmas day? The proximity of the body to the road making it difficult to be unfound for so long?

Oh gosh, I've gone into some detail regarding this on the forum earlier
I'll add the link might be best. It's just the fact I find it very hard to believe the body was undiscovered for 7 days. There was no deep snow to hide the body, 2'' at most all week.
The dog walkers would have been one of the first lot of people (if not the first) to walk down that lane at 9 a.m. They spotted it straight away. They also said (If press reports are true) that they walked along that lane daily, and would be sure to have seen it if it had been there days before.

No significant snow melt occured during Christmas morning, not to suddenly reveal a once snow covered body. It was freezing that night, no thaw set in until Boxing day.

Body deposit site.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - UK - Joanna Yeates, Clifton, Bristol, 17 December 2010 - #4


Bristol snow depth conditions.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - UK - Joanna Yeates, Clifton, Bristol, 17 December 2010 - #5

 

[Lynn R]

"Lynn R....Not disagreeing - out of curiosity what makes you think the body was dumped early christmas day? The proximity of the body to the road making it difficult to be unfound for so long? "

A lot of people think JY's body was dumped early on X'mas day...mostly on the assumption because though she died around Dec 17th, reported missing early Dec 20 with the ensuing massive publicity & search... the body itself was discovered at the first available opportunity in its final location.. Christmas morning 9am.

It was basically found slumped, on ground level, a few feet from the edge of a well traveled road by the short quarry wall. Even in a 1/2 foot of snow the body would have not been completely hidden, and in the back drop of a white snowy background all the more obvious..probably even to passing traffic.

We have not heard much about the old couple walking the dog.. but it is likely that if they were doing it 9AM Christmas morning.. they probably would have been that way in the preceding week..and if LE were lucky give them a considerably narrow window. LE may have also spoken to other regular pedestrian traffic from that road to get a 'window'.

Not hidden in the least.

I see - I thought there was some dispute as to where exactly it was found with the police perhaps holding back its exact position? If the body was found at the roadside it would indeed be a very good argument for the defence if there was little and/or circumstantial evidence against VT

 

[bees]

On google street view, the quarry entrance looks more than a few feet back from the road. If the body were laying flat rather than slumped and mostly obscured by snow, it could have been missed by passing drivers as they would be focusing on the road verges rather than the quarry entrance.

 

[Lynn R]

Oh gosh, I've gone into some detail regarding this on the forum earlier
I'll add the link might be best. It's just the fact I find it very hard to believe the body was undiscovered for 7 days. There was no deep snow to hide the body, 2'' at most all week.
The dog walkers would have been one of the first lot of people (if not the first) to walk down that lane at 9 a.m. They spotted it straight away. They also said (If press reports are true) that they walked along that lane daily, and would be sure to have seen it if it had been there days before.

No significant snow melt occured during Christmas morning, not to suddenly reveal a once snow covered body. It was freezing that night, no thaw set in until Boxing day.

Body deposit site.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - UK - Joanna Yeates, Clifton, Bristol, 17 December 2010 - #4

Bristol snow conditions.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - UK - Joanna Yeates, Clifton, Bristol, 17 December 2010 - #5

Thanks I'll have a look although I thought the dog found the body? I need to do a bit of surfing to refresh my memory!

 

[notsure]

I would have thought that the investigators would be able to establish fairly accurately the length of time the body had been lying there, based on the surrounding conditions and the condition of the body.

 

[Phillb]

On google street view, the quarry entrance looks more than a few feet back from the road. If the body were laying flat rather than slumped and mostly obscured by snow, it could have been missed by passing drivers as they would be focusing on the road verges rather than the quarry entrance.

I actually contacted the Quarry to ask them if they were working Christmas week. It was pretty obvious why I wanted to know. So I was forwarded to the press advisor for the company. She was very sympathetic, and realised why It was important to establish how long the body had been there. Sadly they weren't able to confirm if the quarry was working as it was now a confidential Police matter, they didn't want to jepordise proceedings e.t.c.

But my guess is they were working. The quarry is the main supplier of building aggregate to the construction industry around Bristol. That means countless slow turning H.G.V wagons passed within feet of that body daily. One man had to open, and close those gates less than 10' away from the body twice a day.

The lane is a busy place for dog walkers, joggers, and cyclists too.

Plus I assume (although never clarified) that she would have the same clothes on she was last seen in. Black Jeans, and dark green top. Those colours would stand out well against a white snow ground, plus there was only 2'' snow cover too. No mention of her 'definitely reaching home' because she had changed her clothes.

 

[Redgoblin]

I see - I thought there was some dispute as to where exactly it was found with the police perhaps holding back its exact position? If the body was found at the roadside it would indeed be a very good argument for the defence if there was little and/or circumstantial evidence against VT

Good observation, It has been put out by the press and reported with photos showing JY's parents placing flowers by the side of the road, but it was also mentioned early on that the details of the exact positioning were not on the side of the road.

I also remember reading earlier on that the dog walkers found the body near the golf course lent up against a fence, but this was very early on and since then it has been reported as the body found by the road side.

 

[Phillb]

I would have thought that the investigators would be able to establish fairly accurately the length of time the body had been lying there, based on the surrounding conditions and the condition of the body.

It was frozen, It would have been frozen if it had been anywhere else outside, cold car boot, or old outbuilding previous IMO.

 

[notsure]

It was frozen, It would have been frozen if it had been anywhere else outside, cold car boot, or old outbuilding previous IMO.

But there are other factors, e.g. the degree to which the body was actually frozen to the surrounding area, how long the surrounding area had been undisturbed, etc. They would have experts in that field examining the evidence.

 

[Cerebral]

Another point being raised in other forums is RS - JY's long time best girl friend.

At 8.30pm RS is known to have had an extended phone conversation with JY. This is after Waitrose but before Tesco & Bargain Booze.

RS is based at university in Swansea but the weekend that JY disappeared she was travelling home to Hampshire. Bristol is the halfway mark. RS claims to have discussed plans for X'Mas with JY...but the conversation is obviously now known only to RS.

Could RS have called the LE, weeping, possibly even of JY having a relationship with NUA previously undisclosed due to loyal friendship? Another twist,far less likely IMO on the RS connection is... was RS traveling by car... did RS stop in Bristol? Was the pizza/cider stops for a impromptu snack with RS?

IMO, NUA being the culprit is unlikely for several reasons however bringing up the two RS twists was I thought interesting.

 

[Phillb]

But there are other factors, e.g. the degree to which the body was actually frozen to the surrounding area, how long the surrounding area had been undisturbed, etc. They would have experts in that field examining the evidence.

The Police must have thought it credible enough she had been kept somewhere else. They siezed the house plans for her flat to see if it had been hid there all along.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...been-stashed-for-a-week-in-her-own-house.html

And last reports from a 'source close to the investigation' (which so far proved credible) said they were looking at the theory her body was transported in a bag or suitcase, and that it was possible she had been kept elsewhere. Expect developments in the case very soon.
V.T was arrested about 5 hours later.

 

[Phillb]

Another point being raised in other forums is RS - JY's long time best girl friend.

At 8.30pm RS is known to have had an extended phone conversation with JY. This is after Waitrose but before Tesco & Bargain Booze.

RS is based at university in Swansea but the weekend that JY disappeared she was travelling home to Hampshire. Bristol is the halfway mark. RS claims to have discussed plans for X'Mas with JY...but the conversation is obviously now known only to RS.

Could RS have called the LE, weeping, possibly even of JY having a relationship with NUA previously undisclosed due to loyal friendship?

Another twist,far less likely IMO on the RS connection is... was RS traveling by car... did RS stop in Bristol? Was the pizza/cider stops for a impromptu snack with RS?

Her (RS) mobile signal location would nail her to Bristol if she was anywhere near. We know for fact she used her phone at the crucial time.

 

[bees]

It was frozen, It would have been frozen if it had been anywhere else outside, cold car boot, or old outbuilding previous IMO.

I read somewhere that JYs brother said she looked like she was asleep. That implies she had been in very cold conditions since she died so yes, outside somewhere if not by the quarry for 8 days.

What is amazing to me is why the killer didn't put the body in the surrounding woods so it wouldn't be found for months (or years). He was calculating enough to get rid of the body but not calculating enough to hide it. Bizarre!

 

[Phillb]

I read somewhere that JYs brother said she looked like she was asleep. That implies she had been in very cold conditions since she died so yes, outside somewhere if not by the quarry for 8 days.

What is amazing to me is why the killer didn't put the body in the surrounding woods so it wouldn't be found for months (or years). He was calculating enough to get rid of the body but not calculating enough to hide it. Bizarre!

No attempt to hide it whatsoever from what's been made public, just left on the verge.

Another reason for my strong doubts it was there 7 days.

 

[Sweep the cat]

Another point being raised in other forums is RS - JY's long time best girl friend.

At 8.30pm RS is known to have had an extended phone conversation with JY. This is after Waitrose but before Tesco & Bargain Booze.

RS is based at university in Swansea but the weekend that JY disappeared she was travelling home to Hampshire. Bristol is the halfway mark. RS claims to have discussed plans for X'Mas with JY...but the conversation is obviously now known only to RS.

Could RS have called the LE, weeping, possibly even of JY having a relationship with NUA previously undisclosed due to loyal friendship?

Another twist,far less likely IMO on the RS connection is... was RS traveling by car... did RS stop in Bristol? Was the pizza/cider stops for a impromptu snack with RS?

I couldnt agree more, in fact I posted my thoughts on RS quite a while ago after she gave an interview on TV. I have very strong reseverations regarding her from that interview, her body language and her description of JY and GR relationship seemed over the top. Furthermore, her relationship with JY appears to be very close.

 

[Sweep the cat]

Oh I forgot to say I am pleased we can continue our debate again. Thanks mods.

 

[Pisces Cloud]

Why are we only allowed to discuss people by their initials, which is a bit confusing at times trying to work out who some people mean? Also, can we say police instead of this law enforcement stuff, as no-one calls them that in the UK?