GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #11

[moshimoshi]

I think the work he did was in the area of architectural programming. He specialized in the area of building use analysis, and would be able to use that knowledge to propose building design layouts that optimized time management and work flow. A simple example would be that every building needs washrooms. Their placement, in relation to other building functions (office space, lobby, stairwells, elevators), would be organized such that people time or people resources are optimized. That is, washrooms need to be located such that people can get in and out and back to work quickly.

How would that translate into getting away with murder? He would be good at analyzing people flow ... predicting commonly used paths and how to optimize variables. My guess, if someone like VT did this, he would have the forethought to analyze routes, and choose the route that least compromised his chances of getting away with it. I do not believe he would put a body in a bag in the front seat of his car and cross a bridge with 30 cameras ... unless he was completely out of his mind.

I think we're perhaps in danger of just rephrasing one another re VT & movement of people. I'm not sure his profession has much bearing however.

The cameras are just one consideration. There's only one other route I understand, so what he might have borne in mind is the possibility of being seen on either route. Unless you discount as impossible the likelihood of being seen on the second route, you would choose the one that you could explain being on. Even if that was the one with guaranteed observation from cameras. I mean, what if he took the other route and was caught on ANPR, traffic junction cameras, private cctv, commercial cctv, or remembered by a pedestrian or other motorist. What if he had no explanation for taking that route? That would be the end. But taking a route you had an explanation for taking, no problem.

 

[Cerebral]

[bbm]

what note? I've missed that detail somehow ...

I've read back through the threads and can't find any other mention
do you have a link?

ETA: never mind - I found links

http://swns.com/jo-yeates-murder-letter-written-on-pizza-label-sent-to-the-ram-pub-101309.html

@LadyL...

the note + pizza label sent to the Ram Pub that I referred to is discussed here

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...t-to-pub-where-architect-had-final-drink.html

and here

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/u...-jo-yeates-had-her-last-drink-86908-22841164/

the timing has differed over the weeks.. I most recently read it was received the day before the body was found

 

[Cerebral]

@moshimoshi

the suspension bridge isn't just a regular CCTV covered bridge.. but please correct me if I'm mistaken..from what I have seen is a gated, toll-collecting bridge, where traffic has to stop at a barrier/gate to pay the toll and then move through along the narrow causeway slowly.

Clifton Suspension Bridge entrance | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

NUA or anyone else for that matter.. even without the benefit of education, transporting a corpse would surely avoid such a secure route.

NUA's PhD thesis was earlier on discussed as going in depth in to the movement of people and tracking them with RFID etc.

 

[veggiefan]

I too was very surprised that the crimewatch reconstruction...together with an appeal by her family and boyfriend Greg Reardon was not televised tonight. At first I thought that, maybe the police had enough evidence but..bearing in mind how much a reconstruction on this scale costs...and including an appeal by the boyfriend and parents...I now cannot understand why the L/E would not use it to gather additional information unless...there was something within it/or something someone said..that may be used in a future prosecution?

The statement on Crimewatch itself was:

"With legal proceedings now active we can't show you the reconstruction or the interviews with Jo's family".

 

[Pisces Cloud]

The police have already stated that the post mortem showed that she had been where she was found for several days, and so that rules out her being dumped at Christmas.

"As a result of the findings of the post mortem, we believe that Joanna's body has been in the roadside verge off Longwood Lane, Failand, for several days before being discovered on Christmas morning.

http://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/LocalPages/NewsDetails.aspx?nsid=22383&t=1&lid=1

 

[Phillb]

The police have already stated that the post mortem showed that she had been where she was found for several days, and so that rules out her being dumped at Christmas.


http://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/LocalPages/NewsDetails.aspx?nsid=22383&t=1&lid=1

We believe it says, it doesn't say it is conclusive at all.

That was said in the very early days of the enquiry, meaning the body was frozen, and they believed it might be so. I'm not sure they believed that when they got the house plans weeks later to see if the body had been stashed there. Believing things that go against logic is very bad.

You have to use 'critical thinking' to come to some kind of credible logic. A&S have so far demonstrated they are more than capabable of making very big mistakes, and bad judgement.

 

[whitedove]

We believe it says, it doesn't say it is conclusive at all.

That was said in the very early days of the enquiry, meaning the body was frozen, and they believed it might be so. I'm not sure they believed that when they got the house plans to see if the body had been stashed there weeks later. Believing things that go against logic is very bad.

You have to use critical thinking to come to some kind of credible logic. A&S have so far demonstrated they are capabable of very big mistakes, and bad judgement.

If V/T is guilty of this crime, I think he would have got rid of the body as soon as possible, he would not want it around where he lived, and as they hav'nt yet found a place where the body was kept as far as we know, he may have got rid of it fast.

As the weather was freezing cold, the body would also be frozen if left for some time and would be very hard to move.

 

[Phillb]

If V/T is guilty of this crime, I think he would have got rid of the body as soon as possible, he would not want it around where he lived, and as they hav'nt yet found a place where the body was kept as far as we know, he may have got rid of it fast.

As the weather was freezing cold, the body would also be frozen if left for some time and would be very hard to move.

It's probably why I think there could very well be a terrible miscarriage of justice here. We have seen it before with the C.J farce.

 

[whitedove]

It's probably why I think there could very well be a terrible miscarriage of justice here. We have seen it before with the C.J farce.

They arrested C/J, but did'nt charge him with murder, V/T has been charged with murder, they must have enough evidence to stand up in court and win the case, or they are wasting public money.

I would like to know what evidence they have, I don't think we are going to get much more now until the trial.

 

[veggiefan]

It's probably why I think there could very well be a terrible miscarriage of justice here. We have seen it before with the C.J farce.

I don't think CJ's position could be described as a miscarriage of justice - he wasn't even charged, let alone convicted.

However, I did think it a rather curious coincidence that VT was arrested at just the time when the customary 28-day review of the case would be expected to start. Presumably that's now be postponed or cancelled, now that charges have been laid.

 

[Phillb]

I don't think CJ's position could be described as a miscarriage of justice - he wasn't even charged, let alone convicted.

However, I did think it a rather curious coincidence that VT was arrested at just the time when the customary 28-day review of the case would be expected to start. Presumably that's now be postponed or cancelled, now that charges have been laid.

Miscarriage of justice?

Well I wouldn't be best pleased if I were him to be honest.
He made a rather vague comment, got arrested on a murder charge thereafter. The next thing he's all over the papers. The dirty finger nailed Peeping Tom pervert, and whatever lurid dirt the press heaped on him. He had a great New Years Even banged up in prison, had his flat rippped to pieces. He still can't return home for fear of vigilante hate mobs. His whole character has been assassinated. And he didn't get charged, and hasn't been formally cleared.

Whoa! That sounds a bad miscarriage of justice for making a rather vague comment to me!

 

[enqueteur]

I don't think CJ's position could be described as a miscarriage of justice - he wasn't even charged, let alone convicted.

He's still a suspect though, a week after the arrest of another. What have they got on him I wonder, and will he remain a suspect whilst LE determine if they have indeed charged the right man? LE should stop dilly-dallying, and either release his bail or charge him with being an accessory, but they seem to be sitting on the fence.

Btw, I read that one of the conditions of his bail was that he not return to his flat, which explains why he hasn't.

 

[Phillb]

He's still a suspect though, a week after the arrest of another. What have they got on him I wonder, and will he remain a suspect whilst LE determine if they have indeed charged the right man? LE should stop dilly-dallying, and either release his bail or charge him with being an accessory, but they seem to be sitting on the fence.

Btw, I read that one of the conditions of his bail was that he not return to his flat, which explains why he hasn't.

Exactly.
Either they have something concrete on him, or they don't.

The old saying fits nicely here.

Either put up, or shut up!

 

[willf]

Come on guys - no-one knows for sure why CJ was arrested. It was assumed, based on the brief TV interview with him, that maybe he was altering his story.
But we don't know for sure why the police pulled him in.
There may still be things the police are checking out about him. Did he hamper the inquiry for instance? Was he in any way involved? Have the police uncovered something else about him?
And besides - arresting someone who turns out not to be the culprit is not a miscarriage of justice. It's merely part and parcel of a major criminal investigation.
I know, for a fact, the police haver never identified CJ as the arrested man or given any guidance that it was him.
It was the media who named him and lurid allegations followed.
Many, many people have been arrested in connection with murder inquiries in the past but have never been identified.
But, with the world's press spotlighting on Bristol and all the potential arrestees, his name was bound to emerge.
Perhaps, though, there needs to be legislation preventing the media from naming those arrested?

 

[veggiefan]

That sounds a bad miscarriage of justice for making a rather vague comment to me!

A miscarriage of justice is technically the conviction and punishment of someone for a crime that they didn't commit.

And don't forget that one of CJ's neighbours reported that he'd been phoning neighbours to tell them not to tell the police about what he'd told them. It's not impossible that he might eventually get charged with wasting police time or even attempting to pervert the course of justice. I wouldn't be surprised if his bail conditions include a requirement not to discuss the case with anybody, and are likely to remain in place until the trial is well under way.

Unfortunately, CJ will have little redress against LE unless he can prove that he was arrested maliciously or on very weak evidence. The magistrate who granted LE extra time to question CJ will have agreed that whatever they had on him was sufficient to grant further time for questioning.

 

[notsure]

A couple more things to consider:

Was the cat trapped in the flat from Friday through to Sunday evening? If so, I'm surprised nobody heard it crying to get out.

What kind of lock was on the flat door? If it was a yale lock, then presumably, JY would not need to use the key to open the door to a visitor and could leave it in her pocket after letting herself in. If she went to visit a neighbour, she would surely have locked the door behind her, so if she was killed in another flat, her place would be locked when her bf returned. Do we know if it was locked or not? Some locks can't be opened by a key from outside if there is already a key on the inside.

All I'm saying is, they would be able to deduce quite a lot from where the key was.

 

[whiterum]

he would have the forethought to analyze routes, and choose the route that least compromised his chances of getting away with it. I do not believe he would put a body in a bag in the front seat of his car and cross a bridge with 30 cameras ... unless he was completely out of his mind.

Or he knew exactly what he was doing.

 

[whiterum]

I pulled together some newspaper articles regarding the body's discovery but stupidly logged off the tab! Grrrr. One of them stated that the body was 15 ft from the roadside 3 of them that it was covered in snow and two with pics (one the forensic tent and the other where the parents laid the flowers) which looked like the deposition of the body was in different places. One person said that the snow laid so heavy that the body would never have been seen.

Isn't it interesting that the consensus of recent posters SEEMS to be one of VT's innocence. I don't think any of us are naive in what makes a killer (good guy/bad guy/lunatic/woman)

Also a few reports said her body was found in a ditch at the roadside.

 

[Robin Hood]

If the body was dumped at night by car did the guilty person return and use the footpath cycle track and cover her with leaves making her hard to see and then the snow came. I'd be curious to know if the walkers dog did rumage about and uncover her.

 

[Pisces Cloud]

I've also read somewhere that she might have been placed behind a boulder.