GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #11

[bees]

@ Phill
I don't think anyone is suggesting that there was deep snow in the area and your photo links are helpful.

The difference of opinion is really around whether it's possible for a body in that situation (eg a few inches of snow) to be disguised enough not to draw attention to it.

 

[bees]

More info re: snow conditions in Failand area (Nailsea is about 3 miles from Failand)

18 December (nailseapeople.co.uk)

About 5cm of snow fell across Bristol on Saturday morning with more reported in rural locations to the south of the city.

So at least 5cm in the Failand area with more to follow.

20 December (nailseapeople.co.uk)
Monday brings more snow for Nailsea - updated as severe weather worsens.

22 December

http://www.nailseapeople.co.uk/weat...ountry-lanes/story-10411695-detail/story.html
North Somerset Council is redeploying staff to clear roads and pavements of snow. But some country lanes at Failand and Long Ashton remain impassable.

The photo above shows that pavement / verge surfaces in Nailsea were still under enough snow to cover their colour.

 

[Phillb]

I think it's best to leave the snow thing in all honesty now Bees.
It's started to distract from the threads original purpose. People are free to make up their minds as they see it I guess.

And your picture isn't dated. It has no EXIF, or metadata attached that can be read. The article is dated Dec 22nd agreed, but there is no guarantee the attached photo was taken then. Standard Stock photos are used a lot in Jounrnalism/Council updates in these circumstances, not always factual to date/location. And it is still very shallow snow cover at that to hide the body of an adult woman..

Best to leave it for now eh?

 

[Pisces Cloud]

Saying that her body was put there later would rule a lot of people out though, especially those who lived in the building, police would've been crawling all over the place.

 

[Phillb]

Saying that her body was put there later would rule a lot of people out though, especially those who lived in the building, police would've been crawling all over the place.

I know it would. That's why I feel it's pretty important to get it right. I do feel any defence lawyer needs to be well on top of this issue for sure!

 

[bees]

You can see an inch of snow on the verge while the girls body is still there.
Surely this must satisfy you? No thaw occured that week, that's how it was all week.

What that shows is how it looked by 25th December when the body was discovered but not before when it was possibly disguised by 2" snow on 18th with more snow afterwards.

There was a gradual and slow thaw in Bristol from 22 - 25 December according to this weather station. Max temps for all 4 days crept above 0.
http://www.martynhicks.co.uk/weather/data.php?page=122010

 

[bees]

I think it's best to leave the snow thing in all honesty now Bees.
It's started to distract from the threads original purpose. People are free to make up their minds as they see it I guess.

And your picture isn't dated. It has no EXIF, or metadata attached that can be read. The article is dated Dec 22nd agreed, but there is no guarantee the attached photo was taken then. Standard Stock photos are used a lot in Jounrnalism/Council updates in these circumstances, not always factual to date/location. And it is still very shallow snow cover at that.

Best to leave it for now eh?

I'm happy to leave it there unless anyone else puts a point to which I might be able to find extra information. As you say, it's important to establish the weather conditions for each day that week as it's crucial evidence.

 

[Pisces Cloud]

I know it would. That's why I feel it's pretty important to get it right. I do feel any defence lawyer needs to be well on top of this issue for sure!

The police seem to think that she'd been there for several days and so I think they probably know best at this moment.

 

[Phillb]

The police seem to think that she'd been there for several days and so I think they probably know best at this moment.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...been-stashed-for-a-week-in-her-own-house.html

 

[Pisces Cloud]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...been-stashed-for-a-week-in-her-own-house.html

I still don't think they believe she was put there at Christmas time. As long as it still says several days on the police site then I think it's wise to go with that. Also, none of us even know exactly how she was found and where. Was she behind that boulder, further back into the quarry entrance, etc. Until we know that then we've only got the opinion of the dog walker to go off, apart from what the police have said.

 

[Phillb]

I still don't think they believe she was put there at Christmas time. As long as it still says several days on the police site then I think it's wise to go with that. Also, none of us even know exactly how she was found and where. Was she behind that boulder, further back into the quarry entrance, etc. Until we know that then we've only got the opinion of the dog walker to go off, apart from what the police have said.

I'm not saying for sure when she was put there. The truth is at this point in time only one person knows that for sure (Unless some great admission has already been made, which doesn't look likely)

What I am saying is, I find it very hard to believe she had been there for 7 days undiscovered with all the evidence available. It being a busy location, the same dog walkers saying they would have seen the body if it had been there before, very shallow snow cover, and her dark clothes. Lots of factors make it seem hard to imagine.

I'm not saying it didn't happen. It may well just turn out to be true.

But on the other hand simply assuming it had been there for 7 days is very wrong indeed. You have to look at all the factors, and percentages to come to the conclusion you might need to look at other dates too.
You wouldn't be able to catch a bus, never mind a killer operating with that train of thought.
Especially when the Post Mortem tests did not reveal how long the body had been there.

It's a perfectly fair comment to make yes?

JMO

 

[Pisces Cloud]

I'm not saying for sure when she was put there. The truth is at this point in time only one person knows that for fact (Unless some great admission has already been made, which doesn't look likely)
What I am saying is, I find it very hard to believe she had been there for 7 days undiscovered with all the evidence. It being a busy location, the same dog walkers saying they would have seen the body if it had been there before, very shallow snow cover, and her dark clothes. Lots of factors make it seem hard to imagine.

I'm not saying it didn't happen. It may well just turn out to be true.

But on the other hand simply assuming it had been there for 7 days is very wrong indeed. You have to look at all the factors, and percentages to come to the conclusion you might need to look at other dates too. You wouldn't be able to catch a bus, never mind a killer operating with that train of thought.
Especially when the Post Mortem tests did not reveal how long the body had been there.

JMO

I agree, and the police are probably doing just that. I personally believe that the night of the heavy snowfall is the key though, as in my view before that would be the only time her body would have been naturally covered with snow. Also, her body having been there several days would rule out the couple of days before Christmas. So, that would leave a window of around 4 days in which her body could have also been left, but that would mean her being even more in the open, unless he covered it up somehow.

 

[Phillb]

I agree, and the police are probably doing just that. I personally believe that the night of the heavy snowfall is the key though, as in my view before that would be the only time her body would have been naturally covered with snow. Also, her body having been there several days would rule out the couple of days before Christmas. So, that would leave a window of around 4 days in which her body could have also been left, but that would mean her being even more in the open, unless he covered it up somehow.

Agreed. So many mysteries in this case.
Infact nothing has come to light for fact. Even when, or where it happened?

The sock, pizza everything. It isn't even clear they got the right guy yet.

Much more to come I'm sure.

 

[Redgoblin]

Dinner time break

http://www.thespoof.com/news/magazine/vincent_tabak_the_flying_dutchman_8311.htm

If your easily offended don't click on the link above.

Normal service will now resume...

 

[Snodders]

I've had another look at those photos and this one is interesting.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48028479@N00/5308749767/

It was taken on 18th December in Bristol and in the bottom right section there's a pile of something but you can't see exactly what it is. If you were passing that sort of image from 15 ft away it wouldn't necessarily jump out at you. Also bear in mind that her clothes were green and grey so even if bits of them were exposed, they'd be the same colour as the verge. Further snow fell after that and it all froze for days. It seems entirely possible to me that a body could have been undiscovered in those conditions.

I wonder if a snow plough had been along and dumped snow over her body - although I would have thought the driver would perhaps have noticed a body lying there or perhaps the plough came along in the dark.

My husband spent hours clearing our drive and then a tractor with a plough attachment on the front came along and pushed about 3 foot high of snow onto the pavement trapping our cars on our lovely clear drive. He was not pleased. But this would have been enough to cover a body and would take ages to defrost as it was so dense - not like just fallen snow.

 

[Cherwell]

Hello :seeya:

I think that two inches of snow is enough to cover something. Covering is not the same as burying, two inches would not bury much, but an object does not have to be buried to be concealed. The snow will still cover the surface and be enough to camouflage it. We don't know exactly how the body was lying, but if it was laid down, being a smallish slim person a light covering of snow would easily make it blend into the surroundings.

I thought that the various clips that have been posted showing the police tape and people going beyond it to the deposition site, have confirmed that the body was not found in the quarry entrance, but further up the road? I guess that the white tent in the entrance was probably there so any vehicle tracks could be examined, this being the obvious place to pull in or turn around.

 

[wfgodot]

Hi Cherwell, and welcome to the best thread on WS.

 

[Alisia Dragoon]

Can anyone looking at CCTV of Jo Yeates be able to tell what the snow was like outside?

In regards to where Jo Yeate's body was found, the killer would've had to use the bridge as assuming that was the route. Someone else had said (earlier on this thread) that using this bridge would have to arrive at a cash toll. Is it possible that there is another route and if so how many? Is it possible that the killer avoided using the bridge and went another way?

 

[badhorsie]

Can anyone looking at CCTV of Jo Yeates be able to tell what the snow was like outside?

In regards to where Jo Yeate's body was found, the killer would've had to use the bridge as assuming that was the route. Someone else had said (earlier on this thread) that using this bridge would have to arrive at a cash toll. Is it possible that there is another route and if so how many? Is it possible that the killer avoided using the bridge and went another way?

This was "2 inches" of snow in Dorset

 

[Phillb]

In regards to where Jo Yeate's body was found, the killer would've had to use the bridge as assuming that was the route. Someone else had said (earlier on this thread) that using this bridge would have to arrive at a cash toll. Is it possible that there is another route and if so how many? Is it possible that the killer avoided using the bridge and went another way?

Yes I mapped out the C.C.T.V free route across the river Avon here

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - UK - Joanna Yeates, Clifton, Bristol, 17 December 2010 - #3


Far better to avoid detection instead of the suspension bridge.