GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #12

[whiterum]

The last sentence of the article states:

His family insist he is innocent.

Naturally they would say that but the silence around this case is deafening.
If I were innocent and locked up in prison I would be making some noise and if I couldn't make a strong point myself it would be through family, friends and supporters or my legal team. They wouldn't be able to shut me or my noisey representatives up

Exactly, everything seems so calm and accepting. If I were innocent and faced the prospect of being held even for a week, I would be livid. When the Judge spoke about the trial date being provisionally set for 4th October and his next appearance being 4th May he asked VT" do you understand" and VT answered politely " I understand ,thank you".

Thank you for what ? I would have shouted, " No but do you bloody well understand I am innocent, you have got the wrong man. The real murderer is walking free, get me out of this hole asap!!!

 

[Distant Observer]

The last sentence of the article states:

His family insist he is innocent.

Naturally they would say that but the silence around this case is deafening.
If I were innocent and locked up in prison I would be making some noise and if I couldn't make a strong point myself it would be through family, friends and supporters or my legal team. They wouldn't be able to shut me or my noisey representatives up.

I think frequently there must be the situation where an accused knows that he didn't do it but unfortunately he cannot prove definitively that he didn't do it to the point where the CPS can immediately withdraw the case. For example if I was accused of murdering my next door neighbour last week, I would struggle to have witnesses or other evidence to prove that I couldn't possibly have done it. Fortunately the Crown has to prove guilt rather than the other way round or we might all be in trouble.

 

[naturally suspicious]

Exactly, everything seems so calm and accepting. If I were innocent and faced the prospect of being held even for a week, I would be livid. When the Judge spoke about the trial date being provisionally set for 4th October and his next appearance being 4th May he asked VT" do you understand" and VT answered politely " I understand ,thank you".

Thank you for what ? I would have shouted, " No but do you bloody well understand I am innocent, you have got the wrong man. The real murderer is walking free, get me out of this hole asap!!!

but don't you think behaviour such as he is exhibiting would go along with his character...cerebral, quiet,depressed, deep, wondering what on earth has happened to him that he shd be in this situation...

not everybody can shout and scream...i imagine he is...guilty or not...sunk into a hole of despair...

and all this is happening to him in a country not his own, in a language not his own....

he probably wonders just who he can trust....was it g/f who rang up in tears..

i wd have thought the person nearest to him now is his brother, who says he believes him...a judgement he trusts....

but all this is happening in a country where all are foreigners, even g/f...

 

[veggiefan]

was it g/f who rang up in tears.

VT's sister (a senior scientific adviser to the Dutch government) was insistent that it was not his g/f who rang the police. It's possible that the sobbing girl was EW (who loaned her flat to VT after it became impossible to stay in Canynge Road) or her sister, who has a flat in the same building.

I guess we might know for sure if the person concerned claims the £50,000 reward from The Sun

 

[whiterum]

but don't you think behaviour such as he is exhibiting would go along with his character...cerebral, quiet,depressed, deep, wondering what on earth has happened to him that he shd be in this situation...

not everybody can shout and scream...i imagine he is...guilty or not...sunk into a hole of despair...

and all this is happening to him in a country not his own, in a language not his own....

he probably wonders just who he can trust....was it g/f who rang up in tears..

i wd have thought the person nearest to him now is his brother, who says he believes him...a judgement he trusts....

but all this is happening in a country where all are foreigners, even g/f...

You would think he would show something, some emotion regarding his innocence. The man has been charged with the murder of a young girl and callously dumping her body at the side of the road. He was quite talkative to the media when he called back to his flat. With such a serious charge, if you are indeed innocent it would be a natural response to make that fact known from the outset.

 

[Colombo]

another snippet....heard from a friend whose friend's brother worked as teacher at clifton college in 70s...
apparently, after glynis c murder all staff were interviewed, inc, presumably,cj.

went to clifton yesterday...affluent cafe society; seemed oh so safe and secure, like being in a bubble...can see the attraction...if you like that and have the money...

I believe it was stated when he was arrested CJ was not interviewed in 1974

 

[Colombo]

Exactly, everything seems so calm and accepting. If I were innocent and faced the prospect of being held even for a week, I would be livid. When the Judge spoke about the trial date being provisionally set for 4th October and his next appearance being 4th May he asked VT" do you understand" and VT answered politely " I understand ,thank you".

Thank you for what ? I would have shouted, " No but do you bloody well understand I am innocent, you have got the wrong man. The real murderer is walking free, get me out of this hole asap!!!

yes it would be nice if that situation you descibe was allowed .. but in reality it isnt .

in a murder case I have personal experience of the assused and the family although wanting to deny the charges at their most vocal were told by the defence not to do so ..just to act in the same way as VT is doing . to the extent they were advised not to place his alibi witness on the stand!!!!

result ....life sentence ...18 years min

 

[Cherwell]

I believe it was stated when he was arrested CJ was not interviewed in 1974

But was the source reputable?

 

[Colombo]

Not sure if this has been posted yet or not.

TM, VT's GF visits him on the day of JY's funeral. I guess VT's family came along as well. Photos too at link:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...nt-Tabak-on-the-day-of-Jo-Yeates-funeral.html

.

what is useful to note here is

VT is held in Long Lartin ...its a CAT A prison although it can take some B prisoners ...and remand prisoners who are considered to be CAT A

visiting is by arrangement with at least 72 hours notice

VT is held in CAT A

the rules for remand appear to be

Unless they meet the criteria of category A, remand prisoners are not
categorized. They are usually treated as category B.

and CAT A is

prisoners who would be highly dangerous to the public, police or national security if they were to escape.

 

[whiterum]

yes it would be nice if that situation you descibe was allowed .. but in reality it isnt .

in a murder case I have personal experience of the assused and the family although wanting to deny the charges at their most vocal were told by the defence not to do so ..just to act in the same way as VT is doing . to the extent they were advised not to place his alibi witness on the stand!!!!

result ....life sentence ...18 years min

If that Colombo is an example of doing what you are told and keeping quiet then it's certainly not a good idea to do so, allowed or not allowed.

 

[goldielox]

yes it would be nice if that situation you descibe was allowed .. but in reality it isnt .

in a murder case I have personal experience of the assused and the family although wanting to deny the charges at their most vocal were told by the defence not to do so ..just to act in the same way as VT is doing . to the extent they were advised not to place his alibi witness on the stand!!!!

result ....life sentence ...18 years min

Personal experience here too, though not involving murder this time and the person in question in my case was adamant he wasn't guilty.

Come the trial and on the day an hour before the trial was due to start they pushed him heavily to go guilty. The lure was that the judge had indicated he'd get 5-7 years for a guilty plea...and 8-10 years for a not guilty plea.
Still protesting his innocence he ended up going guilty...and got 10 years!

For six years from when he was sentenced he still proclaimed his innocence. Months before his parole date he finally admitted he did do the crime, not quite as it had been described in court, but did it he did.

For seven long years family and friends stood by him, proclaiming far and wide to anyone whenever the topic cropped up that he was an innocent man. Let's just say it came as rather a shock when after all that time one day he said "erm I've err got something to tell you...".

...which is why I for one take not a blind bit of notice of what the family states. Of course they believe he's innocent - that's what he's told them...and maybe he's telling them the truth..and maybe he is not. The shame can be just too great for someone to admit what they've done to the people close to them who they love.

On the other hand I once knew another man who served 19 years of a life sentence for a murder he said he didn't commit. He was eventually released on appeal about 11/12 years ago. His family left him to rot, and by the time he came out most of his family had died. It's a hellish predicament and situation to be in, wrongly accused and sentenced for any crime let alone murder and, since rarely are there any eye witnesses to many crimes, it does make you think how being in the wrong place/wrong time or right place with no alibi can put someone in such a position as this.

 

[Colombo]

If that Colombo is an example of doing what you are told and keeping quiet then it's certainly not a good idea to do so, allowed or not allowed.

the accused had no choice .. he was advised and it was made clear that things would not go well if he did indeed protest

police in interviews off the record offered him help on lower sentence if he pleaded guilty

when the case went to appeal ..it was discovered that the family telephone line had been diverted...to the local police hq ... a 'mistake' was the admission by the telephone company

 

[goldielox]

what is useful to note here is

VT is held in Long Lartin ...its a CAT A prison although it can take some B prisoners ...and remand prisoners who are considered to be CAT A

visiting is by arrangement with at least 72 hours notice

VT is held in CAT A

the rules for remand appear to be

Unless they meet the criteria of category A, remand prisoners are not
categorized. They are usually treated as category B.

and CAT A is

prisoners who would be highly dangerous to the public, police or national security if they were to escape.

I agree- he's been put in a peculiar prison because he'd generally fall in to cat B status. Visitors wouldn't need "advance clearance" either - that's only for cat A prisoners. Everyone has to book a visit a few days in advance yes, because they only have a certain number of places available in the visiting rooms but having to be "cleared" in advance shouldn't apply to VT's visitors.

 

[whiterum]

Why have A&S held on to one of CJ's cars, you would think all tests would have been completed by now. Was the car a feature in CJ 's arrest and could it be that it will be produced as an item of evidence at the trial, if the case gets that far.

 

[goldielox]

the accused had no choice .. he was advised and it was made clear that things would not go well if he did indeed protest

police in interviews off the record offered him help on lower sentence if he pleaded guilty

when the case went to appeal ..it was discovered that the family telephone line had been diverted...to the local police hq ... a 'mistake' was the admission by the telephone company

Yep, for any doubters reading that I can back that up that things like that do happen. I could give another (and worse) example but can't post the details of that one.

 

[Colombo]

Why have A&S held on to one of CJ's cars, you would think all tests would have been completed by now. Was the car a feature in CJ 's arrest and could it be that it will be produced as an item of evidence at the trial, if the case gets that far.

well if it assumed that the police reference to a car that was investigated and the owner cleared and then this was reinvestiagted and then VT was arrested

then it would appear that the only 3 cars that are known to have been searched are the Chrysler , the Volvo and the BMW belonging to PS

is it known which CJ car was returned?

 

[goldielox]

Why have A&S held on to one of CJ's cars, you would think all tests would have been completed by now. Was the car a feature in CJ 's arrest and could it be that it will be produced as an item of evidence at the trial, if the case gets that far.

Has he got one of his cars back now then?

 

[naturally suspicious]

I believe it was stated when he was arrested CJ was not interviewed in 1974

agree...yes..that's what i read.
i can always get back to friend and find out more...

is there anything else we need to know...

incidentally friend's brother...lovely man...also gay...not important, i know, but maybe fitted in well...

 

[Colombo]

I agree- he's been put in a peculiar prison because he'd generally fall in to cat B status. Visitors wouldn't need "advance clearance" either - that's only for cat A prisoners. Everyone has to book a visit a few days in advance yes, because they only have a certain number of places available in the visiting rooms but having to be "cleared" in advance shouldn't apply to VT's visitors.

It will be interesting to see if that is the case

if it is CAT A remand status then it appears that is practically the same as full status

if it is then perhaps the other female visitor was there to ascertain certain facts for the family and perhaps the Dutch Govt?

 

[whiterum]

Landlord Chris Jefferies may have to wait another five weeks before hearing his fate in the Jo Yeates murder investigation.

That's when he's due to answer bail and he still expects to be eliminated by Avon and Somerset police.

Of course, he could hear from the cops before that, though he remains a suspect and the police have several options - eliminate, charge or extend bail.

I've no idea what the suspicion about him is, except that he appeared to have been rather vague about his claim that he may have seen Jo leaving her flat with two people around 9pm the night she vanished.

But he insists, through others, there is little or no evidence against him.

On the day of his arrest the police removed two cars connected with him.

One was his, the other belonged to a friend but had been left for his use.

One of those vehicles has apparently been returned after a forensic examination.

It may be that his future will depend on the completion of tests on the other vehicle.

Martin Brunt Sky blog, but not known which car.