GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #12

[whiterum]

The other ambiguity is that for the first couple of days it was a missing person enquiry. The father directly addresses JY in the press conference, asking her to get in touch. That doesn't tally with being immediately sure that she had been abducted.

David said that when he visited the flat, he quickly became certain Joanna had been abducted, though police asked him not to go into detail.

He added: "We knew what the flat was like. We know what it's normally like. We know what she does and doesn't do. We were 100 per cent convinced within 30 minutes of arriving at the flat that she had been abducted.
"We had grave concerns based on what was in the flat. We knew she had not gone of her own volition. We came to the conclusion it was very unlikely she would be found alive."

His words obviously show that not only was he almost immediately 100% certain she was abducted but also concluded it was unlikely she would be found alive.

 

[Robin Hood]

Jo's mobile phone was in the flat, the unopened texts and calls from friday were on it. That would tell me something was seriously wrong, not answering calls/texts is one thing, not opening them is another.

 

[kINGFISHER]

Jo's mobile phone was in the flat, the unopened texts and calls from friday were on it. That would tell me something was seriously wrong, not answering calls/texts is one thing, not opening them is another.

So that proves one of the points that some people have a problem with here. J was not there on Saturday to tidy the flat .

 

[Cherwell]

So that proves one of the points that some people have a problem with here. J was not there on Saturday to tidy the flat .

I don't think it has anything to do with tidying the flat. That on its own proves nothing. I for one often plan to do some household job on a particular day, only to put it off to another time, and many people are the same.

JY has been described as an untidy person, and had it been a normal weekend, she might have tidied on Saturday, might have put it off till Sunday, or not got round to it at all. People don't always do what they say they will, for all sorts of reasons.

 

[whiterum]

As was discussed earlier, the fathers statement was ambiguous it could be interpreted flat tidy or not tidy. Robin Hoods post about the phone is an important indicator that Jo was not in the positiion to even answer/read/ not use her phone after a certain time on Friday 17th. So it does suggest that if the flat was tidied, for some who believe that jo could have tidied it on Sat/Sun. it is very unlikely that Jo tidied it. If the flat was untidy it also points to the fact that Jo was not there to clean the flat as she had planned.

Either way, it suggests that Jo did not do any cleaning.

I've even confused myself now :waitasec:

 

[kINGFISHER]

Thanks, Whiterum I was going to get that in but you beat me. She did not tidy the flat after the 17TH, THAT IS THE POINT.

 

[naturally suspicious]

I wonder when LL will return.
Will have to ask son to look AGAIN! and tell us.....
Last week he reported NO cars in 44...can't think it's any different....

 

[Cherwell]

Either way, it suggests that Jo did not do any cleaning.

She did not tidy the flat after the 17TH, THAT IS THE POINT.

I agree, but since we don't know whether or not the flat was tidy, I can't see that it proves anything.

 

[Cherwell]

Last week he reported NO cars in 44...can't think it's any different....

Do you mean no cars were parked there at all? Was this during the day or in the evening? I would expect some of the other residents to have cars.

With seven parking bays and seven flats, one assumes one space per flat. We know that CJ has two cars, and (on at least one occasion) was parking one of them on the road. I would have thought that if a resident didn't have a car, they might agree to let him use their space for his second car ... or a similar arrangement might be agreed for any other occupants who had two cars. Of course they might want to keep their bay available for visitors.

 

[naturally suspicious]

just replied that he will NOT look....
So much for family sleuthing!!!

 

[kINGFISHER]

i agree, but since we don't know whether or not the flat was tidy, i can't see that it proves anything.

one step at a time

 

[notsure]

just replied that he will NOT look....
So much for family sleuthing!!!

Looks like he hasn't inherited the sleuthing gene.

 

[aneurin]

No, it was the state of the flat - whether tidy or untidy - that I was disputing. I don't think this has been confirmed by a reliable source.

As discussed in earlier posts, the father's comments are ambiguous because it is unclear whether he expected to find the flat tidy or untidy.

OK fair enough. It was just that I knew that the statement, the "keys and mobile phone were on the table" was likely wrong, because of GR's statement that "all the stuff she would need to take with her" was in her bag, and not thus on the table. (Which is vaguely important; as had they been on view on the table, GR might have raised the alarm immediately he got home, and not a few hours later.)

As to the tidyness or otherwise of the flat. Well, different people have different ideas of what constitutes 'tidy'. A journalist might refer to a "tidy flat", because it wasn't obviously trashed and there was no sign of a disturbance. Whether that meant that the flat was as tidy as it was supposed to be in readiness for the party that GR and JY had planned for the following week would be something else entirely. And I'm not sure that it would prove anything anyway.

 

[Cherwell]

As to the tidyness or otherwise of the flat. Well, different people have different ideas of what constitutes 'tidy'. A journalist might refer to a "tidy flat", because it wasn't obviously trashed and there was no sign of a disturbance.

True, but I'm assuming that no journalists were allowed inside to see it. But then again, this can be deduced from GR's reactions on his return. Clearly it all looked fairly normal to him.

Whether that meant that the flat was as tidy as it was supposed to be in readiness for the party that GR and JY had planned for the following week would be something else entirely. And I'm not sure that it would prove anything anyway.

No, it's just that some people have deduced that IF the flat was tidy, someone else (assume the killer or an accomplice) must have tidied it.

For my own money, it wasn't tidy, i.e. it was pretty much as JY & GR had left it earlier on the Friday.

 

[Prickle]

No sign of a struggle , the flat tidy along with no sign of forced entry and nothing apparently missing…she didn’t arrive home at all IMO.
Somewhere along her journey home JY was joined by someone and whether amicably or by force was taken elsewhere. This leaves her belongings. They were placed back in the flat by someone who had a key or the means to enter.

That’s the part that really intrigues me…no sign of force of entry and no evidence of a struggle. Someone lying in wait who took JY by surprise would have resulted in some kind of a struggle. It seems that there was no sign of that!

If I had been out at some Christmas get together and had a few drinks (assuming that’s what J did ), then collect a couple of items from local shops on the way home ,walk home on a bitterly cold night with snow underfoot as J did I would have opened the door, kicked off my boots, thrown my coat on a chair !

Had I have been her, alone with no one to tend to then I would have flopped in front of the TV with a glass of wine. I would have just wanted to get warm, feed/cuddle my cat and relax! perhaps an early night. No way would I have left my belongings in the usual place and I certainly wouldn’t have been bothered cooking a pizza at 9.00pm. The fact that there is no evidence that J ever cooked/ate the pizza tells me she was never there.

Someone let themselves into JY flat and tried to make it look like she had been home but somehow just didn’t get it right.

 

[Trio]

I do believe JY's Mum said that JY was going to do some baking, mince pies that Weekend, but the recipe was still in her Dairy, perhap's that was an indication to her Family that something was wrong too.


The screams heard at 9 pm it is possible that this had nothing to do with JY, the midnight help me heard by someone, the Man said in his interview in the Media that he did not know what Night that was.

Another possibility is that JY was not in a position to answer her text/phone however she could have been alive at that time, but someone would not let her answer her phone, whether that be in her Flat or someone else's, I would imagine JY would have kept her phone on her even if she did go to another Flat, because she texted a friend about meeting up, and would have wanted to answer him, or something happened soon after JY arrived home and she was already deceased at the time the text was sent.

So many if's and why's

 

[notsure]

No sign of a struggle , the flat tidy along with no sign of forced entry and nothing apparently missing…she didn’t arrive home at all IMO.
Somewhere along her journey home JY was joined by someone and whether amicably or by force was taken elsewhere. This leaves her belongings. They were placed back in the flat by someone who had a key or the means to enter.

That’s the part that really intrigues me…no sign of force of entry and no evidence of a struggle. Someone lying in wait who took JY by surprise would have resulted in some kind of a struggle. It seems that there was no sign of that!

If I had been out at some Christmas get together and had a few drinks (assuming that’s what J did ), then collect a couple of items from local shops on the way home ,walk home on a bitterly cold night with snow underfoot as J did I would have opened the door, kicked off my boots, thrown my coat on a chair !

Had I have been her, alone with no one to tend to then I would have flopped in front of the TV with a glass of wine. I would have just wanted to get warm, feed/cuddle my cat and relax! perhaps an early night. No way would I have left my belongings in the usual place and I certainly wouldn’t have been bothered cooking a pizza at 9.00pm. The fact that there is no evidence that J ever cooked/ate the pizza tells me she was never there.

Someone let themselves into JY flat and tried to make it look like she had been home but somehow just didn’t get it right.

There was the half-drunk cider (not sure if we've been told it was in a glass or still in the bottle), and presumably "they" would be able to tell by some kind of test if she had actually been drinking from that bottle/glass. If evidence proves that she had, then it would seem that she had actually made it home. Then we're still faced with the problem of: who did she let into the flat?

 

[notsure]

I wonder if it's possible that the murderer was in the flat when she arrived home, but concealed himself (in the bathroom or bedroom, for example). He might have thought that when she didn't arrive home at her usual time, she was away for the weekend. When he showed himself, she screamed and he had to silence her.

Edit: This has obviously been said before. Please ignore!

 

[Suspicious Minds]

Someone let themselves into JY flat and tried to make it look like she had been home but somehow just didn’t get it right.

I am of the opinion that she must have made it home as I think it would be too risky for anyone (the perp) to use her keys and enter her flat and return items to make it look as if she had made it home as they wouldnt know who could be around and see/hear them, wouldnt even know if GR had returned as journey was too treacherous to continue or was having car probs.

I also wonder about CJ, as from what we have been told of him by media, he was a LL that new all about tenants it seems and their movements, he was even there to help GR get his car going to get to Sheffield, surely he would have knocked at JYs door at some point over weekend to enquire about whether GR made it safely to Sheffield considering auto trouble before and then the hazardous driving conditions. Maybe he did and its just not been reported by media.

 

[kINGFISHER]

We are pretty sure that jo was not alive after 17th Dec so she could not tidy her flat that weekend.

The point that has to be established is whether the flat was tidied in a specific way which J would not normally adhere to. Only Js mother father and G would know this. So until we find information to back this up we are stuck with it at the moment.