GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #12

[veggiefan]

Interesting Vegefan

QUOTE
We had grave concerns based on what was in the flat. Something missing, something left or something changed , we might know the exact details at some point.

Could just be JY's winter coat. Given the weather at the time, it would be an indication that she hadn't expected to go out.

It does occur to me that DY was talking about the morning of the 20th December, when the case was still being treated as a "missing person", so perhaps his reference to things "that we’ve been asked by the police not to go into" could just be matters like the coat, as its presence would have alerted everyone in the area to the probability of an abduction.

 

[naturally suspicious]

if only we knew more details.......then we cd all help the A&S police solve the crime....

 

[kINGFISHER]

Could just be JY's winter coat. Given the weather at the time, it would be an indication that she hadn't expected to go out.

It does occur to me that DY was talking about the morning of the 20th December, when the case was still being treated as a "missing person", so perhaps his reference to things "that we’ve been asked by the police not to go into" could just be matters like the coat, as its presence would have alerted everyone in the area to the probability of an abduction.

I think you could be right so we might have to hold on to the tidy flat. This is just going round in circles time for a break, If I can, see what turns up.:seeya:

 

[kINGFISHER]

CHERWELL
Originally Posted by kINGFISHER
QUOTE. The Keys and mobile phone were on the table in the tidy flat

Could you give a source for this, please.


Saturday, January 01, 2011, 07:00
BRISTOL EVENING POSTI Fears for her safety escalated as her purse, keys and mobile phone were left in the tidy flat, where there was apparently no sign of a struggle

JUST HAD TO POP BACK TO REPLY TO THIS.

 

[Cherwell]

Thank you. I don't consider newspapers a reliable source, I'm afraid. Even less so today with 24 hour online editions: everything is done at speed with no time to check anything.

 

[aneurin]

if only we knew more details.......then we cd all help the A&S police solve the crime....

Except that A&SC think they've already 'solved' the crime.

 

[aneurin]

Thank you. I don't consider newspapers a reliable source, I'm afraid. Even less so today with 24 hour online editions: everything is done at speed with no time to check anything.

Granted. But I've always found the locals to be better than the nationals.

Besides the BEP simply states that "her purse, keys and mobile phone were left in the tidy flat". No mention that they were left 'on the table' in plain view, which I believe is the point of contention.

 

[kINGFISHER]

Thank you. I don't consider newspapers a reliable source, I'm afraid. Even less so today with 24 hour online editions: everything is done at speed with no time to check anything.

If everything in newspapers is unreliable and when most information is put out by the press aren't you and all of us here wasting our time as most of the information we are using is coming from them. I believe the information that the flat was left tidy and I think others do. A tidy killer. So which bits in the newspapers if any, do you believe in is it the bits that tie in with your theory.

 

[veggiefan]

Granted. But I've always found the locals to be better than the nationals.

Besides the BEP simply states that "her purse, keys and mobile phone were left in the tidy flat". No mention that they were left 'on the table' in plain view, which I believe is the point of contention.

Exactly, but it contradicts your first point about local papers being better.

The national paper quoted GR verbatim:

"I went through her bag, which she had left on the table and found it had all the stuff she would need to take with her, things like her purse and her keys."

The local paper, writing several days later, merely summarised this as "purse, keys and mobile phone were left in the tidy flat".

There's no contradiction, but the local paper used its own précis instead of quoting the source directly.

 

[Cherwell]

Granted. But I've always found the locals to be better than the nationals.

Besides the BEP simply states that "her purse, keys and mobile phone were left in the tidy flat". No mention that they were left 'on the table' in plain view, which I believe is the point of contention.

No, it was the state of the flat - whether tidy or untidy - that I was disputing. I don't think this has been confirmed by a reliable source.

As discussed in earlier posts, the father's comments are ambiguous because it is unclear whether he expected to find the flat tidy or untidy.

 

[veggiefan]

A tidy killer.

If you believe that the killer tidied the flat, it could only realistically be done by somebody who knew where everything should go. And that would not be VT.

It seems to me to be highly unlikely that a killer would tidy the flat, because of the risk of leaving fingerprints and DNA everywhere. Unless that person happened to be someone whose fingerprints and DNA could quite reasonably be expected to be all over the flat.

That someone is, of course, in the role of the type of person who is most commonly responsible for the murder of women. But he seems to have been ruled out, so I will say no more.

 

[notsure]

The thing that strikes me is that the parents saw something that not only made them think JY had been abducted, but also that she was not likely to be found alive.

 

[Cherwell]

If everything in newspapers is unreliable and when most information is put out by the press aren't you and all of us here wasting our time as most of the information we are using is coming from them. I believe the information that the flat was left tidy and I think others do. A tidy killer. So which bits in the newspapers if any, do you believe in is it the bits that tie in with your theory.

I can only speak for myself, but I treat everything with caution unless it has come directly from police spokesmen or from witnesses.

There have been a lot of misquotations and factual errors, compounded by the habit of the press to borrow from each other without checking. The circumstances of the employment of GR and JY, and where and when they met, is one example where an early report (by the Daily Mail, I think) contained many errors and was widely repeated by other media.

 

[kINGFISHER]

If you believe that the killer tidied the flat, it could only realistically be done by somebody who knew where everything should go. And that would not be VT.

It seems to me to be highly unlikely that a killer would tidy the flat, because of the risk of leaving fingerprints and DNA everywhere. Unless that person happened to be someone whose fingerprints and DNA could quite reasonably be expected to be all over the flat.

That someone is, of course, in the role of the type of person who is most commonly responsible for the murder of women. But he seems to have been ruled out, so I will say no more.

Good point Veggiefan
That did cross my mind and who knows but he would not be the only one allowed in there with allowed DNA traces and using protective clothing to limit the spread. That was more my line of thinking.

 

[Cherwell]

The thing that strikes me is that the parents saw something that not only made them think JY had been abducted, but also that she was not likely to be found alive.

Yes, the missing bodybag snowboard bag would do it.

(This is only speculation - we do not know for certain if such an item is missing.)

 

[whiterum]

The thing that strikes me is that the parents saw something that not only made them think JY had been abducted, but also that she was not likely to be found alive.

"We knew what the flat was like. We know what it's normally like. We know what she does and doesn't do."

I took this to mean that Greg, the father and the mother knew what the flat was normally like. Greg may have said that this or that was not usually there, not normally in that place, or missing. Such as the skis and surfboard in the hallway are normally in a bag. Or Jo would never put the orange throw on top of the fridge, it’s a ski blanket which was kept in the bag. Indicating to them that someone else must have done these things, the person who took the bag and Jo. This may suggest she was not likely to be found alive.

Just a guess but I hope all these questions will be answered.

 

[Trio]

Not according to GR, the person who found them:

"I went through her bag, which she had left on the table and found it had all the stuff she would need to take with her, things like her purse and her keys."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1340586/Boyfriend-missing-architect-Jo-Yeates-sobs-I-want-Christmas.html

Much the same said here.

From the Crimewatch website.

Joanna lived with her boyfriend, Greg Reardon. The last time he saw or spoke to Joanna was on Friday afternoon. He then spent the weekend in Sheffield.

When he returned home at around 8pm on Sunday 19th, he discovered the flat was empty. He tried calling Joanna, only to discover her mobile in her coat pocket. Her purse and keys were also all inside as were the coat and boots she usually wore. Detectives also found receipts for the shopping she'd bought that night along with the bottles of cider. The only things missing were Joanna and any trace of the pizza she had bought.

Link to Crimewatch website.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/crimewatch/appeals/2011/01/joyeates_latest.shtml

 

[kINGFISHER]

I read somewhere that the flat was left so tidy that it would suggest that a woman may have also been involved in the murder .

 

[Cherwell]

Why would it suggest that? :waitasec:

 

[moshimoshi]

Good morning, Cherwell. I do so enjoy your responses. The excerpt you have in italics (as quoted above) is fairly straightforward to me - so tho I'm not saying you're wrong ... I'm merely suggesting my interpretation. Indeed, any sentence may be pulled apart and made-to-fit theories, however I believe David & Theresa knew their daughter better than anyone. That Jo had told family, colleagues and friends she'd be spending the weekend alone - get some cooking done - tidy up the flat ... meant ... just that.

So we know Jo especially planned to be "in" all weekend to do her "domestic chores". Nothing was done. Tabak took the pizza ... forgot the receipt. Maybe he took it to eat? Maybe he shared it with TM the next day? Maybe he disposed of it together with the sock - never to be found again?

It had to be very, very evident no tidying occurred for her parents and Greg to have reacted to the "state" of the flat. No cooking; no tidying up. All her belongings were there - including phone, keys, coat, etc. Her phone is a huge tell-tale sign (cell ping towers/records). Jo was discovered in exactly the same clothes as seen on cctv on the Friday evening, sans coat, a sock and her shoes.

Neighbours and previous tenants clearly confirmed (as do the crime scene photos) that movement between the two flats would go completely unnoticed. Looking *too* much into a very clear and specific statement by her parents is not that ambiguous to me, of course.

Does anyone else see that Jo's parents knew she was going to tidy up; nothing was done; Jo was in the same same clothes and zero movement/response tracked since her estimated arrival home - circa 9pm Friday 17th Dec?

I agree with Cherwell, it's an ambiguous statement from the father. He simultaneously suggests that he found the place either tidy or untidy, and that one of these states was surprising, but the language of his statement doesn't reveal which!

The other ambiguity is that for the first couple of days it was a missing person enquiry. The father directly addresses JY in the press conference, asking her to get in touch. That doesn't tally with being immediately sure that she had been abducted.

On the 23rd it becomes an abduction case and the father says:

"I think she was abducted after getting home to her flat. I have no idea of the circumstances of the abduction but because of what was left behind in the flat we feel she wouldn't have gone out by herself leaving those things behind. If she chose to go away she would have taken some of her things with her like her purse and phone. I never thought for a second she would ever leave of her own volition."
~ bbc

His other statement, “We know what she does and doesn’t do" is just an opaque rephrasing of the above imo, into which people have perhaps read various things not actually stated.