GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #14

[notsure]

Thousand dollar question...why ?

One guess: he was angry that his girlfriend had left him alone, and he transferred that anger to Jo. Perhaps it was some inner rage against young women in general, and Jo just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[masekwm]

Thousand dollar question...why ?

I thought affair since the start but if she didn't know his name...

 

[edgedweller]

The wiping mouth I think is a "Oh my god, what the hell have I done" thing. Nerves, anxiety - comforting himself. So he visited Asda twice - but bought nothing the first time? Was he just panicking the first time and trying to give himself time to think without having to be near the body? Then the 2nd time making sure he had a receipt in case of CCTV?

Do you think he read something in TM's emails that he didn't like - something that made him jealous and he took it out on Jo? Did Jo know TM? Or is that totally coincidental... I don't think him logging on to her emails is that weird on its own, she might not even care that he did that. I wonder if TM will be a witness (for pros or defence?!).

 

[edgedweller]

I suppose the motive is the key thing now - prosecution will have to come up with one, won't they? Because no motive implies a psychopath/mentally unstable person, which surely could imply manslaughter (diminished responsibility?)? What would make him attack her so violently and so soon after she got home??? I can't even think of anything that would make sense.

Feel so sorry for Jo's parents - imagine hearing that your darling daughter's body was left in a car boot for hours and then dumped on a verge, covered in leaves and left for days to freeze. And then the perpetrator texts his girlfriend to say he's 'bored'. WTF? Perhaps he realised his texts would be analysed at some point and it was a feeble attempt to prove his innocence (ie why would a murderer text that?!)

 

[edgedweller]

I've got a horrible feeling he's going to lay some blame at Jo's feet - provocation? Or a case of mistaken identity - thought she was a burglar or something? This case is intriguing - it's a shame it's real life.

 

[whiterum]

My thoughts were basically the reverse of yours: starting off thinking he was a cold monster, then gradually starting to wonder if he was a basically decent guy who in a moment of insanity had wrecked his own and many others' lives. Reading today's news, however, I'm right back to my original thoughts. We have yet to hear the defence, though, which could still conceivably change our views yet again.

I won't be changing my views at all, this guy's as cold as as fake as hell.

Not only did he kill a vulnerable young girl, he also tried to set up an unsuspecting pensioner for his crime. But Jo's little body frozen and covered with snow, did not decompose and told the true tale.

There is nothing decent about this man and if there is any justice in this world, he will be found guilty as charged.

 

[bijoux]

Based on today's evidence in court, I have put together a time-line.

I do need help plugging the following details into the mix, if any of you can help. (I am not sure of the exact dates VT did the following):


Searched the web for details of body decomposition and of bin collections in the Clifton area, extradition arrangements between Holland and the UK, and sexual assault.
Logged in to the laptop he shared with his girlfriend TM and accessed the webmail address at Dyson where she worked.

Here is what I have so far and please feel free to add what I have omitted, or make corrections:


December 17

7pm: VT arrived home and texted his girlfriend at 7.15: "Just got home... missing you."

8.50 pm : JY arrives home. CCTV and phone records provide a short window of time that Joanna was attacked. Just minutes after she arrived home, says prosecution.
Prosecution say the screams were from Joanna and they prove she was attacked a few minutes after she returned home.

Neighbours heard screams as VT attacked JY, court told. A loud scream from a woman was heard. Witnesses said it sounded as if someone was in distress. The scream was followed by a second "muffled" scream and then a bump or thud.

VT strangled JY with his hand or hands, jury told.
He held her neck long enough to "squeeze the life out of her" said Nigel Lickley, QC.
Pros QC says VT was in "complete control" when he strangled JY with his hands and that there was no doubt of his intent.

9.25: After JY was killed, VT texted TM: " Missing you loads. It's boring here without you"
He then drove to Asda with JY in the boot of the car and he texted his girlfriend again saying he was bored.
Then VT dumped JT’s body and went to pick his girlfriend up in his Renault Megane.

Dec 18th: On the morning after JY's death, VT looked up the A&S police website "on an almost hourly basis," and did so numerous times during the investigation.

Dec 19th:
VT began looking up websites about crimes in Bristol.
VT was looking on the Internet as to where he had dumped her body (Google Maps). and searched the crime section on local news websites.

Dec 21st: VT looked up the sentences for manslaughter on his work computer. He repeatedly typed in the search word "doodslag" — Dutch for manslaughter.

He also tried to discover the percentage of grey cars in the area — and the number of Renault Meganes in the UK.

Dec 23rd: Police searched VT's flat for missing JY. VT described as being "cooperative and appropriate".

Dec 24th: VT told police he had spent Dec 17th on his own and had gone to Asda.

Dec 25th: JY’s body was found by dog walkers.Witness thought he had seen denim and went back to look. He saw the form of a body and then white knickers and skin. The snow-covered body was lifted with yellow straps and placed on a stretcher. JT’s distinctive watch and hair clearly visible.

Dec 26th: Police revealed on Boxing Day that the body was that of JY.

Dec 27th: VT continued to research media coverage of the JY’s case.

Around New Year’s: VT contacted police while on holiday in Holland to tell them he had seen his landlord's car outside flats. Detectives traveled to Holland to take Tabak's statement. Tabak asked lots of questions about forensics.

Jan 15th: VT and TM went to a dinner party. He told friends he had been interviewed by police.

January 20 2011, 5.57: VT is arrested for murder of JY. He was "shaky and somewhat shocked". DNA mouth swabs were taken. VT’s car was taken from flat on Aberdeen Road. VT was agitated and concerned when he was asked for a DNA sample. He contradicted his earlier story about movements on Dec 17th. When forensic evidence linked VT to the murder, "his initial reaction was to accuse the forensic scientists of forgery and taking bribes."

 

[Redgoblin]

I've got a horrible feeling he's going to lay some blame at Jo's feet - provocation? Or a case of mistaken identity - thought she was a burglar or something? This case is intriguing - it's a shame it's real life.

I've been thinking perhaps the defence will try something like that, the reason being I cannot think of any reason why you would strangle a neighbour to death.

I would however think it would be unlikely that you would mistake her for someone else, he must have seen her before at some point even though it may of only been fleeting. They lived right next door to one another. She is also female, I cannot imagine you get that many female burglars.

As to a motive, I'm not sure it's important really and it would be a hard thing to prove without some solid evidence like a secret affair for instance and a key witness like a friend of JY knowing as much.

The text to TM is quite intriguing it sounds almost like he's needy. Perhaps he was the jealous type and had some inkling that his girlfriend was having an affair and took his revenge out on the neighbour? - The logging in to her works e-mail could be him checking on her?

I'm not saying TM was having an affair, VT might have been paranoid.

That still wouldn't work for the defence in a manslaughter charge... What are they going to say he went round to slap his neighbour around because he was angry with his girlfriend. It doesn't make sense.

I cannot think of any reason that a reasonable person would blow up to a neighbour about. Unless he thought JY was TM? even so he would surely of known it was not her.

Very odd. Most people don't flip on someone without due cause.

 

[badhorsie]

The wiping mouth I think is a "Oh my god, what the hell have I done" thing. Nerves, anxiety - comforting himself. So he visited Asda twice - but bought nothing the first time? Was he just panicking the first time and trying to give himself time to think without having to be near the body? Then the 2nd time making sure he had a receipt in case of CCTV?

Do you think he read something in TM's emails that he didn't like - something that made him jealous and he took it out on Jo? Did Jo know TM? Or is that totally coincidental... I don't think him logging on to her emails is that weird on its own, she might not even care that he did that. I wonder if TM will be a witness (for pros or defence?!).

BBM Don't know about anyone else but, for me, that is akin to reading someone's diary

 

[wfgodot]

Based on today's evidence in court, I have put together a time-line.

Thanks, bijoux! outstanding time-line.

 

[brownbread]

It seems unlikely that the basic facts of this case are going to be disputed (that he killed her and attempted to conceal the body) so it's just going to come down to exactly how and why he killed her and what evidence they can produce which sheds any light on this.

What makes a man go round to his neighbours house, whom he doesn't even know by name and kill her within minutes?

The only thing I'm thinking of at the moment is being angered by noise or loud music - could Jo have returned home, turned the stereo up and provoked Tabak to go round in a rage? It seems over the top but I'm aware of a similar incident resulting in an attempted strangulation.

 

[Cherwell]

There was something about the cat going in his flat - could that have happened that night and he brought the cat back to her, but was handling it roughly? and that sparked it all off?

 

[whitedove]

After killing J/Y, V/T sent a text to T/M, he then drove to Asda with the body in the boot, walked around Asda, he then sent another text to T/M, he was already thinking about an alibi, cctv in the supermarket, and sending texts placing him in town and not at the site where the body was left on the side of the road in Longwood Lane.

He often used a bike and he might have used this lane as it was a well known cyclist rout, he may have known it would be a quiet place to get rid of the body.
I wonder if he was thinking of killing someone that night and had already planned it all out, or did it just happen and he quickly thought it all out, which ever way it happened, it did'nt take him very long from the killing, to making an alibi to getting rid of the body.

 

[Redgoblin]

There was something about the cat going in his flat - could that have happened that night and he brought the cat back to her, but was handling it roughly? and that sparked it all off?

I guess the rationale in all of us is trying to find a logical explanation for a possible 'trigger' event whereby VT goes into a complete rage and loses the plot, assuming of course that's what happened, unless it was premeditated?

I wonder if he has a history of violent outbursts or anger?
Was he on medication for anything?
Was he a very private person?
Does he like pets?

The lack of medication could be more telling than being a person who has medication. IMO. Depends on his anger or makeup.

 

[Cherwell]

Well .... it's just a thought prompted by this (Sorry, I know it's the Sun) :blush:

Greg had never spoken to Tabak prior to his girlfriend's disappearance. He had only spoken to Tabak's girlfriend, Miss Morson, once - when his and Jo's cat, Bernard, got into their neighbours' flat and Miss Morson asked him to remove it.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...ing-he-was-bored-after-killing-Jo-Yeates.html

Now some people are allergic to cats, so say TM is - and VT was angry to find the cat in their flat again. Grabs the cat, handling it roughly, and marches round to next door as soon as he sees JY has returned. She has a go at him for ill-treating her pet, he's already fuming and it all kicks off from there. Plausible.

 

[veggiefan]

As to a motive, I'm not sure it's important really

I'm not so sure. It's going to be difficult to prove murder without some indication of motive.

So far, the failure to establish a motive seems to me to be the one glaring hole in an otherwise damning case against VT, and it will probably be a weakness that William Clegg QC exploits in the coming weeks.

Juries can find that a lack of motive provides the "reasonable doubt" that makes them reluctant to convict. One of the jurors in the recent Amanda Knox appeal has already said that it was the lack of a clear motive which fatally undermined the case against her.

 

[whiterum]

Police have indicated since early in the enquiry that they suspected a sexual motive.

It's been reported that forensics found DNA/Partial DNA) on her breasts, stomach and jeans.

We know from the trial after the killing he looked up 'sexual assault' and 'sexual conduct' on his computor.

IMO there will be a lot more evidence concerning a motive that has yet to be revealed.

 

[2goldfish]

Police have indicated since early in the enquiry that they suspected a sexual motive.

It's been reported that forensics found DNA/Partial DNA) on her breasts, stomach and jeans.

We know from the trial after the killing he looked up 'sexual assault' and 'sexual conduct' on his computor.

IMO there will be a lot more evidence concerning a motive that has yet to be revealed.

poor joanna :sigh: in her own home and her own neighbor that she would have never suspected. it's so ugly. so pointless and ugly.

 

[Robin Hood]

Based on today's evidence in court, I have put together a time-line.

I do need help plugging the following details into the mix, if any of you can help. (I am not sure of the exact dates VT did the following):


Searched the web for details of body decomposition and of bin collections in the Clifton area, extradition arrangements between Holland and the UK, and sexual assault.
Logged in to the laptop he shared with his girlfriend TM and accessed the webmail address at Dyson where she worked.

Here is what I have so far and please feel free to add what I have omitted, or make corrections:


December 17

7pm: VT arrived home and texted his girlfriend at 7.15: "Just got home... missing you."

8.50 pm : JY arrives home. CCTV and phone records provide a short window of time that Joanna was attacked. Just minutes after she arrived home, says prosecution.
Prosecution say the screams were from Joanna and they prove she was attacked a few minutes after she returned home.

Neighbours heard screams as VT attacked JY, court told. A loud scream from a woman was heard. Witnesses said it sounded as if someone was in distress. The scream was followed by a second "muffled" scream and then a bump or thud.

VT strangled JY with his hand or hands, jury told.
He held her neck long enough to "squeeze the life out of her" said Nigel Lickley, QC.
Pros QC says VT was in "complete control" when he strangled JY with his hands and that there was no doubt of his intent.

9.25: After JY was killed, VT texted TM: " Missing you loads. It's boring here without you"
He then drove to Asda with JY in the boot of the car and he texted his girlfriend again saying he was bored.
Then VT dumped JT’s body and went to pick his girlfriend up in his Renault Megane.

Dec 18th: On the morning after JY's death, VT looked up the A&S police website "on an almost hourly basis," and did so numerous times during the investigation.

Dec 19th:
VT began looking up websites about crimes in Bristol.
VT was looking on the Internet as to where he had dumped her body (Google Maps). and searched the crime section on local news websites.

Dec 21st: VT looked up the sentences for manslaughter on his work computer. He repeatedly typed in the search word "doodslag" — Dutch for manslaughter.

He also tried to discover the percentage of grey cars in the area — and the number of Renault Meganes in the UK.

Dec 23rd: Police searched VT's flat for missing JY. VT described as being "cooperative and appropriate".

Dec 24th: VT told police he had spent Dec 17th on his own and had gone to Asda.

Dec 25th: JY’s body was found by dog walkers.Witness thought he had seen denim and went back to look. He saw the form of a body and then white knickers and skin. The snow-covered body was lifted with yellow straps and placed on a stretcher. JT’s distinctive watch and hair clearly visible.

Dec 26th: Police revealed on Boxing Day that the body was that of JY.

Dec 27th: VT continued to research media coverage of the JY’s case.

Around New Year’s: VT contacted police while on holiday in Holland to tell them he had seen his landlord's car outside flats. Detectives traveled to Holland to take Tabak's statement. Tabak asked lots of questions about forensics.

Jan 15th: VT and TM went to a dinner party. He told friends he had been interviewed by police.

January 20 2011, 5.57: VT is arrested for murder of JY. He was "shaky and somewhat shocked". DNA mouth swabs were taken. VT’s car was taken from flat on Aberdeen Road. VT was agitated and concerned when he was asked for a DNA sample. He contradicted his earlier story about movements on Dec 17th. When forensic evidence linked VT to the murder, "his initial reaction was to accuse the forensic scientists of forgery and taking bribes."

9.25..........and then went for food at a burger bar with TM

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...l-Vincent-Tabaks-alleged-online-cover-up.html

 

[Redgoblin]

Well .... it's just a thought prompted by this (Sorry, I know it's the Sun) :blush:


http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...ing-he-was-bored-after-killing-Jo-Yeates.html

Now some people are allergic to cats, so say TM is - and VT was angry to find the cat in their flat again. Grabs the cat, handling it roughly, and marches round to next door as soon as he sees JY has returned. She has a go at him for ill-treating her pet, he's already fuming and it all kicks off from there. Plausible.

It's the wrong time of year to leave windows open. So I doubt the cat could have gotten into VT's flat.

There is no other way the cat can get into the building unless through the communal entrance into the hall and VT or someone else would have had to of let the cat in to do that. I suppose the cat if it was left in the hall could have crept in to VT's flat?

We don't even know if the Cat is that important other than the statement made by GR to the press mentioning the cat seemed agitated.