GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #3

[otto]

I think it's very interesting that the parents were alarmed in 30 minutes, but not the boyfriend ... let me look for that link.

"Police said there were no signs of forced entry at the flat but Jo’s parents were convinced she had been abducted when they saw the state of the property.

David said: “We knew what the flat was like. We know what she does and doesn’t do.

“We were 100% convinced within 30 minutes of arriving she had been abducted.”

He said there were “other factors, other reasons that we’ve been asked by the police not to go into”, that left him convinced she had been snatched.

David added: “We had grave concerns based on what was in the flat. We knew she had not gone of her own volition. We came to the conclusion it was unlikely she would have been found alive.

“The state of the flat indicated she had been abducted. Jo and Greg were quite untidy and we knew she was planning on tidying up on Saturday.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...cctv-on-bridge-115875-22809044/#ixzz1Ad0JEVRq
Go Camping for 95p! Vouchers collectable in the Daily and Sunday Mirror until 11th August . Click here for more information

 

[Firefly75]

I think it's very interesting that the parents were alarmed in 30 minutes, but not the boyfriend ... let me look for that link.

"Police said there were no signs of forced entry at the flat but Jo’s parents were convinced she had been abducted when they saw the state of the property.

David said: “We knew what the flat was like. We know what she does and doesn’t do.

“We were 100% convinced within 30 minutes of arriving she had been abducted.”

He said there were “other factors, other reasons that we’ve been asked by the police not to go into”, that left him convinced she had been snatched.

David added: “We had grave concerns based on what was in the flat. We knew she had not gone of her own volition. We came to the conclusion it was unlikely she would have been found alive.

“The state of the flat indicated she had been abducted. Jo and Greg were quite untidy and we knew she was planning on tidying up on Saturday.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...cctv-on-bridge-115875-22809044/#ixzz1Ad0JEVRq
Go Camping for 95p! Vouchers collectable in the Daily and Sunday Mirror until 11th August . Click here for more information

I found that interesting as well, and worrying. However, we don't know the details. I do wonder what exactly they picked upon.

MrZhivago had a go at explaining why the parents came to the conclusion quicker than the boyfriend, on one of the previous pages. Happen he was right, happen not.

 

[otto]

Found the answer that I was looking for. He "came home at about 8pm" on Sunday.

Good find! It's difficult to find some of the older articles already.

That's what I remembered, that he was home 3 hours (4 hours per your link) before phoning anyone, which gave him three hours to clean up ... or at least wonder why she hadn't cleaned up, made her mince meat pies and left without her shoes.

 

[otto]

Unless there's loads they aren't telling us....a fresh perspective on this, through fresh eyes is a good idea.

It sounds like the police are feeling a bit backed into the corner by a media that wants instant answers and results. By bringing some older, experienced investigators, it may switch the public understanding of the investigation from DNA and Facebook to good old fashioned detective work where circumstantial evidence is the core of the case, and answers are found by understanding the mind of the killer.

 

[Myserty64]

The police must have a very good DNA profile if they are considering getting samples from dozens if not hundreds of men.
As has been suggested this is most likely from under her finger nails.

I'm using the KISS principle here and as I already wrote Joanna most likely answered a knock on her door with pizza & box in hand.
She screamed but was over-powered immediately and most likely immediately strangled.

It is irrelevent whether it was risky moving the body because it was done successfully.
My hunch is the body and pizza was taken to cause confusion.
This action was successful.

Whether the killer was well known to her or a stranger remains to be seen.
If the investigators have the DNA they appear to have it is only a matter of time.
With this in mind it is interesting the L/L is still on police bail.

 

[enzeder]

Good find! It's difficult to find some of the older articles already.

That's what I remembered, that he was home 3 hours (4 hours per your link) before phoning anyone, which gave him three hours to clean up ... or at least wonder why she hadn't cleaned up, made her mince meat pies and left without her shoes.

BBM

Right, without her shoes, or her coat, mobile phone, purse and keys.

Another thing I thought of; did he not try to contact Joanna on her mobile phone during those 4 hours before phoning the police?. Had he done so, surely he would have at least heard it ringing if it was in her bag on the table? JMO

 

[otto]

I found that interesting as well, and worrying. However, we don't know the details. I do wonder what exactly they picked upon.

MrZhivago had a go at explaining why the parents came to the conclusion quicker than the boyfriend, on one of the previous pages. Happen he was right, happen not.

That is a good question. It sounds like the parents expected a tidy apartment, and that wasn't the case. That wouldn't be enough to conclude someone was abducted. It had to be something about the environment, or her things, that they knew their daughter would never do. The whole mince meat pie thing bothers me too. Joanna's mother said that she was going to do cooking and baking for Tuesday. I'm guessing that's the day they were going to visit her parents. They were staying a week with their parents, and then going to Scotland. The absence of cooking and baking should have been a big clue.

 

[saggymoon]

Good find! It's difficult to find some of the older articles already.

That's what I remembered, that he was home 3 hours (4 hours per your link) before phoning anyone, which gave him three hours to clean up ... or at least wonder why she hadn't cleaned up, made her mince meat pies and left without her shoes.

People have more than one pair of shoes/boots - as mentioned in a post above, he didn't look into her bag until just before calling the police when he saw her keys/mobile in it - people also have clutch bags, rucksacks,some go out without a bag - and more than one coat/jacket, we can't know, he may have thought she was out with friends, i would have thought a text or call though would have been made to her before midnight, unless they have that kind of relationship where they don't keep in touch much, don't live in each other's pockets

 

[otto]

ty. I found an article where it says that he "came home at about 8pm" on Sunday. (see my last post) It appears that he waited around 4 hours before contacting the police.

That just doesn't make any sense to me. From reading more about the case, it seems that the couple had invited people on Tuesday, and Joanna was going to do some cooking and baking for that evening. When he returned home, saw the apartment looking the same as it did before she went to work in the morning on Friday, saw her cell phone, coat and shoes at home, did not see any signs that she had done anything in the kitchen ... what did he then do for four hours? Goof around on the internet ... start setting up the Facebook search site?

 

[otto]

People have more than one pair of shoes/boots - as mentioned in a post above, he didn't look into her bag until just before calling the police when he saw her keys/mobile in it - people also have clutch bags, rucksacks,some go out without a bag - and more than one coat/jacket, we can't know, he may have thought she was out with friends, i would have thought a text or call though would have been made to her before midnight, unless they have that kind of relationship where they don't keep in touch much, don't live in each other's pockets

It's been reported that they were devoted to each other, so that makes me wonder why no communication during the weekend seemed okay. I can understand an open, trusting relationship, but when devoted, young couples are away from each other even for the weekend, they usually touch base ... if only to say good night. I understand that after work he went home, she went to the pub with friends. He had left left for Sheffield by the time (9ish) she returned home. Why didn't he at the very least call to say that he arrived safely? Is that an old fashioned thing of the past ... oh, I get it ... he texted everything ... and then wasn't concerned that she didn't reply. Nevermind. It still doesn't explain why he accepted silence on her end.

 

[mikeymot]

BBM

Right, without her shoes, or her coat, mobile phone, purse and keys.

Another thing I thought of; did he not try to contact Joanna on her mobile phone during those 4 hours before phoning the police?. Had he done so, surely he would have at least heard it ringing if it was in her bag on the table? JMO

Yes....I know they found her bag, purse, keys etc.,...but did they also find her mobile phone...or had that been taken? Don't remember any appeals trying to find it.

 

[Nausicaa]

It is irrelevent whether it was risky moving the body because it was done successfully.
My hunch is the body and pizza was taken to cause confusion.
This action was successful.

Myserty, surely the risk taken in moving the body by anyone other than a resident of 42 Canynge Road (or 44 if there is an internal stair case between the basement and some other part) is highly relevant ? The perp judged that the benefits to him of moving the body even in view of possible passers-by or nearby residents potentially looking from windows outweighed the danger - and the physical difficulty (which should not be underestimated). If he thought that creating confusion was a sufficient motive for running this risk, that already tells us something about him. But it seems likelier that he had a much more imperious motive for moving the body. And even then, in my opinion, it remains easier to believe that he didn't have to lug the body out in the open - just a yard or two of very sheltered space.

I'd like to emphasize the issue of the physical difficulty of carrying and manipulating the body, by the way. Just ask an obliging friend to lie on the floor as a dead weight and give neither assistance nor resistance of any kind. Then try picking up the person and carrying her, say, fifteen yards, to a hatch-back and dumping her inside through the hatch. A lot of people, even men, just couldn't do it, and a lot more would find it a hell of a sweat.

 

[otto]

"She had left her keys, mobile phone and purse at her flat.

Yeates's boyfriend, architect Greg Reardon, 27, reported her disappearance to police on Sunday, December 19, after returning home following a weekend away.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE6BP0RH20101229

 

[Firefly75]

That just doesn't make any sense to me. [...] ... what did he then do for four hours? Goof around on the internet ... start setting up the Facebook search site?

It bothers me, too, particularly because she never answered his phonecalls while he was away, nor did she text him. He came home in the evening, she wasn't there, he waited until midnight. I don't know what their relationship was really like, and I may be unfair when I wonder 'what the heck' made him take so long before he budged, but I remember the panic my husband was in one day when I was held up in a meeting and couldn't contact him to let him know I was going to be late. I wasn't in my office, so his phonecalls there went unanswered. My cell was on silent during the meeting, and the battery went flat when I tried to phone him as soon as I got out of the meeting. Within less than an hour, he was searching the streets for me, and phoning my friends to see if they'd heard from me. When I recharged my cell, I had numerous missed calls from him and messages asking me to phone back, come home, where I was, etc.
That's why it strikes me as odd that after no contact over the weekend, he still waited for four hours. But, as I said, people react differently.

 

[saggymoon]

I agree with you Otto, the non communication does make one wonder, my post was more about the waiting 3/4 hours before alerting police - we don't know that he waited 3/4 hours since becoming worried - he only looked in her bag at a late stage apparently and on seeing her keys/phone realised something was not right. I don't know, it's quite confusing, I'm sure it's all in his police interviews.

@ enzeder, it's not a given her mobile would have rang if he called it, it could have been switched off

 

[Phillb]

Myserty, surely the risk taken in moving the body by anyone other than a resident of 42 Canynge Road (or 44 if there is an internal stair case between the basement and some other part) is highly relevant ? The perp judged that the benefits to him of moving the body even in view of possible passers-by or nearby residents potentially looking from windows outweighed the danger - and the physical difficulty (which should not be underestimated). If he thought that creating confusion was a sufficient motive for running this risk, that already tells us something about him. But it seems likelier that he had a much more imperious motive for moving the body. And even then, in my opinion, it remains easier to believe that he didn't have to lug the body out in the open - just a yard or two of very sheltered space.

I'd like to emphasize the issue of the physical difficulty of carrying and manipulating the body, by the way. Just ask an obliging friend to lie on the floor as a dead weight and give neither assistance nor resistance of any kind. Then try picking up the person and carrying her, say, fifteen yards, to a hatch-back and dumping her inside through the hatch. A lot of people, even men, just couldn't do it, and a lot more would find it a hell of a sweat.

I can't agree with you more.
The body was only moved by somone known in Jo's circles, not by an oppurtunist, or stranger. No way.
They would have left it where it was and scarpered. A stranger has absolutely no way of knowing who will come walking through the door, or how much time they have. They want out of that flat dam quick.

It was moved either for total disposal in the quarry, or in the vain hope it might be assumed the murder took place away from the flat. Only an aquintance, or someone privvy to the boyfriend free weekend situation wants the scene of the murder away from the flat to take away the heat, awkward questions, and alibi situation that will follow.

Imagine the situation. Your a total stranger, no one saw you follow or enter Jo's flat. No one heard or saw you kill her. Your left with a body at your feet, there is no one who can finger the blame at you.

What do you do?

A... Run like hell?

Or

B.... Get the body outside, and into your car as stealthily as possible, then drive through the streets of Bristol with a corpse in your car, on a night time in Christmas week when the Police are breath testing for drink drivers.
Then find a suitable location to dump the body in the hope no one see's you.

No contest I.M.O.

 

[otto]

It bothers me, too, particularly because she never answered his phonecalls while he was away, nor did she text him. He came home in the evening, she wasn't there, he waited until midnight. I don't know what their relationship was really like, and I may be unfair when I wonder 'what the heck' made him take so long before he budged, but I remember the panic my husband was in one day when I was held up in a meeting and couldn't contact him to let him know I was going to be late. I wasn't in my office, so his phonecalls there went unanswered. My cell was on silent during the meeting, and the battery went flat when I tried to phone him as soon as I got out of the meeting. Within less than an hour, he was searching the streets for me, and phoning my friends to see if they'd heard from me. When I recharged my cell, I had numerous missed calls from him and messages asking me to phone back, come home, where I was, etc.
That's why it strikes me as odd that after no contact over the weekend, he still waited for four hours. But, as I said, people react differently.

I completely agree with you on this. I expect telephone contact with my family, and anyone I'm devoted to, especially when anyone is alone for the weekend. If I was trying to contact someone (family, or devoted to) and the messages went unanswered Friday, Saturday and Sunday, I'd phone and leave a message expecting a reponse as soon as they they received the message.

 

[enzeder]

Sorry if this has already been posted.

Cops hunting a white van man over Jo murder

Jan 9 2011

"The hunt for Jo Yeates’s killer took a dramatic turn last night after The People discovered that a white van driver was seen acting suspiciously where her body was found – two days before its *discovery.

Dog walker Marilyn Stevens saw the “strange” man in a woolly hat sitting alone in a small left-hand drive van before he spotted her and sped off.

Jo’s frozen body was found 48 hours later under snow only a few yards from where the mystery driver was parked"

http://www.people.co.uk/news/uk-wor...white-van-man-over-jo-murder-102039-22835569/

 

[Phillb]

White van with a man in a woolly hat. Sounds rather like a builder to me.
I guess the entrance to a quarry is an unusual place to see someone like that.

A lot of strange things go off in that lane. First the mysterious 4X4. Then the two rain soaked men running out of the woods at 6 a.m last week. Now the nervous white van man.

 

[otto]

I agree with you Otto, the non communication does make one wonder, my post was more about the waiting 3/4 hours before alerting police - we don't know that he waited 3/4 hours since becoming worried - he only looked in her bag at a late stage apparently and on seeing her keys/phone realised something was not right. I don't know, it's quite confusing, I'm sure it's all in his police interviews.

@ enzeder, it's not a given her mobile would have rang if he called it, it could have been switched off

It's not just the phone, or the 3-4 hours he waited before contacting her parents or the police. If he had thought about where she was at 10 PM on a Sunday night, after not seeing her all weekend, he could have called friends to ask if they had seen her at any time during the weekend. That seems more in tune with a gradual concern about where she might be. Instead, he sat for 4 hours doing nothing, and then went to high alert contacting parents and police. Additionally, she was supposedly preparing food and dessert for guests on Tuesday ... that was part of her plan for the weekend. Didn't he have some curiosity about how that was coming along ... check the fridge ... wonder why Friday morning dishes (parents said the place was untidy) were still there ... or if it wasn'the dishes, it was something that hadn't been touched since he left after work on Friday. Wonder why none of the cooking, baking and cleaning had been done? She was supposed to clean on Saturday, and that hadn't been done ... didn't that bother him? How could he walk into the apartment, see it pretty much as he left it, see her purse, keys and phone on the table, see that the preparations for the party had not been done, and then make no effort to contact her.

Also, someone MrZivago I think, posted that he left a text message saying happy new year? I haven't been able to find any text message information, but curious if it happened.