GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #3

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brownbread said:
Hello, am new here but have been following the thread as it's such a tragic and confusing case. Firstly: my thoughts are with Jo's family and friends and I hope for a swift resolution for their sakes.

A few things I have been thinking about.

On the Friday night timeline and contact with friends:

It seems Jo had left the pub but was still keen to continue socialising. The reason she didn't just keep drinking in the pub could easily be because other colleagues were heading home themselves, she wasn't that close to the people who were there or the atmosphere wasn't great. Alternatively there could have been someone she wanted to get away from (a colleague she didn't get on with or a stranger trying to chat her up?)

We know she called her best friend and arranged to meet up on Christmas eve, but the original purpose of the call could have been to check if she was out or wanted to go for drink. As she wasn't, perhaps Jo started to go through her contacts looking for someone else who was.

It interests me that we weren't informed of the text to CAG at the outset when the LE presented other aspects of Friday night's timeline which included the call to her best friend. The CAG text has only become public indirectly via the media and the police haven't commented on it. This makes me wonder if there are other texts/phone conversations which haven't been made public either? Could there have been someone else she made contact with later on?

Moving the body:

Looking at the house, am I correct in thinking that the door to their flat was on the right hand side of the property, accessed via a narrow path? And that the main entrance and driveway was on the left hand side? And that there was no way to get a vehicle closer than perhaps 25m from their door (either out on the street or the other side of the house). This would make moving a body both strenuous and risky. Would a stranger/intruder have attempted this if they didn't need to? Or would the determination to conceal the body have been great regardless of the circumstances of the death?
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Very good points brownbread!

Concerning the texts I think you may be right, and there is an interesting dissonance between JY's announced plans for a quiet weekend on her own and the text suggesting that she was looking for company.

Regarding the entrance, from memory I think you are right - but isn't there a second entrance to the building, used by other flats? Is that one nearer the drive / road? The killer must have known that moving the body would be highly risky - even at a quiet time of night - which suggests both a strong motivation to move (ie not a stranger) and also that they would try to find tue least risky approach. Need to look at the building layout to see what the possibilities would be for exiting with a body - anyone know?
 
Hi there, I've been following these Jo Yeates threads for a while now but forgive me if i repeat something already said, at this stage there are just so many posts to trawl through. Very interesting site you have here btw.

On CAG: Someone mentioned about a page back a line of thought that JY may have rang her friend on the way home if she thought she was being followed (I think theres a newspaper article on it). It struck me that maybe JY was trying to get hold of this guy, "a friend of her brothers", so that she could get herself into the company of a trusted male for protection, maybe her friend on the phone had said, "is there anywhere safe you can go, do you know anyone around there" and Joanna thought of this guy she hadnt seen in over a year, who there was no interest in romantically or sexually but who she knew was a good guy. - Now this may have been either been either because she was being followed or because she didn't feel home was a safe place to go (if she felt her (maybe soon to be ex-) BF was a danger).

Right now my list of suspects is quite long & i'm sure the police have alot more information that hasn't been made public that would help me narrow it down but it includes: The boyfriend, The random guys walking behind her, The Landlord, the neighbour & most interestingly the Neighbours young tennant who made the strange comment of how he'd assumed she'd gone off with someone. This comment suggests to me someone with an issue with women, almost as if he's thinking '*advertiser censored*', & as we know most 'sexual' related/rape crimes are really about anger/hatred towards women.

Would this guy have known from the whole starting the car hullabaloo earlier that Greg was going to be out of town? Perhaps he had his eye on Jo for some time beforehand? Being of roughly similar age to Jo & Greg & living next door there is a chance they were acquainted at least casually, would Jo have opened the door to this guy?

Anywho there's just some of my random musings! As you can see its not some overall theory.
 
Phillb said:
Murder is easy to commit, it's disposing of the body that's the hard and risky part.

Whats the motive to move Jo's body out of her flat?

I would assume that if it was commited by a stranger they wouldn't risk trying to get rid of the body, it's far too risky, and far too much effort. A stranger would rather the body be found in the flat, that way the murder is 'commited by persons unknown'' he would be hoping it stays like that too. In his opinion there's 'plenty of other strangers' might take the blame.
The chances of getting caught trying to dispose of the body far outway those leaving the body in situ?

Someone close to Jo, or known to Jo on the other hand would be racked with the most awful guilt. By disposing of the body there trying to hide it, make the situation go away. Almost like burying their head in the sand. It doesn't help matters, but that must be the reaction to distance themselves from matters as far as poss? The list of people known to Jo dwindles down very small compared to a stranger attack. You wouldn't want to be on that list.

We all know how we felt as kids when we'd done something wrong, even if no on knew, or found out about it. Think how you felt then to gauge your guilt reaction and behaviour in this situation.
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I'm not sure that someone close to Jo would be racked by guilt, especially if it weren't someone really close like her boyfriend. The perp might not have meant to kill her at all. She maybe started screaming too loud, too soon when he came on a bit strong. She may have had a damn good scream on her (she was described as "vivacious"). The imperative was to shut her up. He was stronger than he thought / her neck was weaker... He might have just felt unlucky, rather than guilty..

So I think his motivation in moving the body was not guilt, but not wanting to be found out, that's all.
 
On the Pizza: Is it possible the Pizza was in the oven when Joanna either opened the door to someone, was accosted by a hidden intruder or went out to check the mail/put wrapper in bins/look for cat & that the reason it was taken is because the killer took the body inside or saw from the threshold that it was on & turned the oven off & disposed of it before it set smoke alarms off & raised an early alarm.
 
MrZhivago said:
:truce:

For me, it's a lot more than gut feeling.
There are connections with Clifton College uniting various of the players. You have the schoolmaster who lived in the building who was convicted of paedophilia. There's Stanley, a former pupil, who knew Jefferies in 1974 and is now involved with Clifton College as exams officer and shooting instructor. There is Hardyman, former master, who is apparently in bed in the top flat and who is connected through a cousin to the 1974 party and who was living just a few hundred yards from the 1974 murder. (A bit of research shows other possibly relevant people in 44 and 42, but i don't want to mention possibly peripheral people). You have the fact that the body dump site is close to Clifton College playing fields and the currently active shooting range. You've got the similar murder method. No shoes on body. Time of year. All sorts.
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thanks for that...a cosy little circle of men connected to clifton college....
didn't know that peter stanley was ex-pupil and working there....also excellent point about dumping ground area being near college playing fields

i don'tthink i'd be looking anywhere other than into this close circle of acquaintances....


lotsof sleeping going on there too...
 
If CAG and JY were having an affair they might not have been arranging their meetings via mobile phone or other electronic means anyway, so when she called him that night and he didn't respond it might well have been that he promptly (upon waking, if that part about sleeping is true) went round to her place. He would know where she lived if they were intimate.

JY might even have called round to his place right after texting him, therefore no need for him to return her text.

The info about them last being in touch 18 months ago would have come from family or the man himself - so I don't take that as true neccessarily. Parents would not perhaps be party to the real information about when she last saw CAG - who tells their parents everything anyway!? As for CAG - he would have reason to lie if he was trying to distance himself from the murder.

Or of course as others have said, he might simply have not been remotely interested in meeting up with her.

I'm an odd user of my mobile phone - not always switched, etc. so I don't know how other people operate, so I wonder how many people have the numbers of casual acquaintances from the past in their mobile phone directories? Is that usual?

jmo
 
This may have been posted...I have been moving between this forum and Digital spy's forum on and off and it appears somebody called 'Debbie' has posted something on Facebook about knowing who killed Jo. It has been reported to the Police apparently and folk have said it is just the rantings of a nutter. If you search on the Digital spy forum (page 17 has it quoted by a poster)
I wasn't sure if mentioning it was a good idea but it's there should you wish to look.

edited to add...it may have moved pages as posts are being removed by mods.
 
jigzy said:
I'm an odd user of my mobile phone - not always switched, etc. so I don't know how other people operate, so I wonder how many people have the numbers of casual acquaintances from the past in their mobile phone directories? Is that usual?
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I have all sorts of contacts in my phone, including people I haven't been in touch with for years.

I haven't heard anything about the way Jo used (or didn't use) her phone which strikes me as 'odd' - it's all very similar to the way I use mine.

Equally, I can relate to the idea of getting in touch with someone I hadn't seen for 18 months just on the off chance. I have lots of old friends that due to busy lives I haven't seen in a long time, but I wouldn't rule out getting in touch with them at the spur of the moment - particularly if I was feeling a bit impulsive after a few drinks on a Friday night.
 
Robin Hood said:
This may have been posted...I have been moving between this forum and Digital spy's forum on and off and it appears somebody called 'Debbie' has posted something on Facebook about knowing who killed Jo. It has been reported to the Police apparently and folk have said it is just the rantings of a nutter. If you search on the Digital spy forum (page 17 has it quoted by a poster)
I wasn't sure if mentioning it was a good idea but it's there should you wish to look.

edited to add...it may have moved pages as posts are being removed by mods.
Click to expand...

can you link to the relevant page?
 
Idlewilder said:
Very good points brownbread!

Concerning the texts I think you may be right, and there is an interesting dissonance between JY's announced plans for a quiet weekend on her own and the text suggesting that she was looking for company.
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You seem to be suggesting the Jo may have been being underhand in some way? Personally I don't see anything suspicious - having had a few drinks with colleagues on a busy Friday night when everyone's in the festive spirit may have suddenly put her in the mood for a more social evening than she'd planned, hence the last minute call/text(s).

Again drawing on my own experience, my plans often evolve at the last minute and a drink or two can easily lead to plans for a quiet night being abandoned.
 
Hi bluepanther
I share your interest in Laurence Penney (neighbour's tenant). Strange form of wording he used to theorise JY's disappearance - I think he assumed she'd 'absconded' which is just bizarre as others have noted.

He claimed not to know JY and GR at all even though they lived next door. Perhaps not surprising since they only moved in 2 months ago. However, PS ( his landlord) did know them (and CJ, Jo's landlord), and had jump started the car earlier that day. And we know that LP was very friendly with his landlord - see the nighttime sledging photos on LP's flickr account, so perhaps it's surprising he hadn't met them bearing in mind the connections between them all?
 
LadyL said:
thanks - I did see that post

I can't find which FB page discussion that poster is referring to - there are so many
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You may find the link to the facebook page as it was posted at some point.

It appears the info given by Debbie has been removed. I can find it on my history but it's not coming up for viewing when it's searched.
 
brownbread said:
You seem to be suggesting the Jo may have been being underhand in some way? Personally I don't see anything suspicious - having had a few drinks with colleagues on a busy Friday night when everyone's in the festive spirit may have suddenly put her in the mood for a more social evening than she'd planned, hence the last minute call/text(s).

Again drawing on my own experience, my plans often evolve at the last minute and a drink or two can easily lead to plans for a quiet night being abandoned.
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Not underhand, no: just that the original assumption that she headed home for an early evening alone is rather negated by that text which does suggest that she had a change of heart and was in the mood for company. But if she contacted anyone else by phone the police would surely have the details. So perhaps she didn't look for someone else to text, but called on them directly - someone in the same house / nearby ?
 
bluepanther said:
On the Pizza: Is it possible the Pizza was in the oven when Joanna either opened the door to someone, was accosted by a hidden intruder or went out to check the mail/put wrapper in bins/look for cat & that the reason it was taken is because the killer took the body inside or saw from the threshold that it was on & turned the oven off & disposed of it before it set smoke alarms off & raised an early alarm.
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Depending on the circumstances of the murder, I think the idea that the pizza was in the oven at the time of the attack and then started smoking is a plausible explanation for its apparent disappearance - it could have replaced into its packaging and then disposed of.

In fact it could have even happened before the attack - Jo could have put it in the oven herself, not set a timer and forgotten about it until it was inedible and disposed of it outside, where the bins were emptied before they were searched by police. Conceivably this could have been a reason for venturing out of the flat wearing only her socks, when an attacker could have struck.
 
I think the question should not be 'why would you move the body' but 'why wouldn't you move the body'.

Sure there are risks moving the body, but it could also be done if the perp held his nerve and covered it. The chance of not getting caught outweighs the chances of imo.
 
Idlewilder said:
Not underhand, no: just that the original assumption that she headed home for an early evening alone is rather negated by that text which does suggest that she had a change of heart and was in the mood for company. But if she contacted anyone else by phone the police would surely have the details. So perhaps she didn't look for someone else to text, but called on them directly - someone in the same house / nearby ?
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Ah sorry - in which case I agree with you. I do think there could be other texts/calls, but then I think there'd have been more evidence of the people connected with these calls/texts having been questioned by LE. Although, it's quite difficult to make any assumptions based on the absence of any particular evidence, because there's always a strong possibility the evidence does exist but isn't in the public domain.
 
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