GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #5

[Patticake]

Detectives searching a village close to the body dump site:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...close-to-where-architects-body-was-found.html

.

 

[Rossetti]

Thanks, yes planning was granted in 2004.....but the conversion from 4 to 7 flats which was carried out at No.44 had its application granted in 2008.....applicant was Clifton college.

Application to convert no 42 into 4 flats granted in 2004. Applicant Mr P. Stanley.

http://e2eweb.bristol.gov.uk/Public...val=I4E7P7DNZD000&searchtype=PROPERTY&module=

 

[mikeymot]

Application to convert no 42 into 4 flats granted in 2004. Applicant Mr P. Stanley.

http://e2eweb.bristol.gov.uk/Public...val=I4E7P7DNZD000&searchtype=PROPERTY&module=

Yes, same info...but my applicant is down as D.A.P. Stanley....are these initials he no longer uses?

 

[Rossetti]

Yes, same info...but my applicant is down as D.A.P. Stanley....are these initials he no longer uses?

Could well be, people often choose to be known by a second or third forename.

 

[mikeymot]

Could well be, people often choose to be known by a second or third forename.

How close do you think the police are to making an arrest?

 

[Rossetti]

I wish I knew. It all hinges on having enough evidence of course - they may have a pretty good idea what happened, but there's no point in arresting or charging anyone if they don't have enough to make it stick.

 

[liz b.]

Re: Phil B

Originally Posted by liz b.

And " A source " states that "detectives want to piece together as much detail as possible about whether Jo was killed in her flat "... So, the place of death does not really seem to have been established...

All JMO

This is what I said yesterday there was no hard fact she was killed in the flat as yet, just presumption she was. I'm also surprised they've only just started to look at alternative places to hide the body. I posted those old Victorian plans of the flat on here the other day and mentioned those out buildings e.t.c.
Last edited by Phillb; Today at 03:09 AM.

Phil....I swear L/E are looking at your Maps on here!

The maps are first rate,IMO. And it seems to be true that there are no hard facts to prove that Jo was killed in the flat. I think she was held someplace for several days, and possibly killed in a vehicle. IMO her body was dumped not long after the murder.

All JMO

 

[SirRobert]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-Did-killer-stash-body-secret-cubbyhole.html

This is a strange departure now. The police saying they are 'convinced' the murder took place in the flat is not quite the same thing as saying 'it took place in the flat', simply as a matter of investigative course.

The idea of there being somewhere to store a body which isn't already obvious to the naked eye would indicate someone who lived on the premises, was aware of internal anomalies in the building and who had easy access to those premises during subsequent days.

One can't imagine the police believe the body was stored for days on end, while police were on the premises.

Which makes one wonder why the killer would store the body at all, or need to, for even the short period before it became a police matter.

It's more likely that the police are struggling to explain the opportunities for removing the body and fact of it being moved at all, given that they think the murder took place in the flat.

The main problem with thinking the murder took place in the flat is explaining why the body would be moved at all.

This building plans element is all about the 'when' of it being moved, if it was indeed moved at all.

 

[mikeymot]

Has anyone managed to get any old press reports about Stephen Johnston, the paedophile who originally owned J/Ys flat before C/J? Just wondered if there may be a description of the interior...as he 'groomed'/abused a pupil there.

Also trying to find any background on Louis Hayles, was landlord of the Star and Garter pub (which appears on L/Ps website) he was given 9mths in 2007 for sexual assault on a young girl....from what I have found so far...he has a history of this...but google seems poor at searching both these subjects. Would appreciate any more info.

Snippet not directly related: http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/crime/Cider-shop-change/article-3090665-detail/article.html



Just spotted this...though not directly linked to the case.

 

[ruined detroit]

How close do you think the police are to making an arrest?

Early February?

 

[Firefly75]

The killer isn't showing empathy for Jo's parents wanting the body to be found to ease their agony. This killer(s) hasn't enough conscience to give himself up, he/they/she continues to evade the Police, and evade them very well.

Agree strongly. Conscience and empathy went out the window a long time ago.

 

[gloriana]

Has anyone managed to get any old press reports about Stephen Johnston, the paedophile who originally owned J/Ys flat before C/J? Just wondered if there may be a description of the interior...as he 'groomed'/abused a pupil there.

Also trying to find any background on Louis Hayles, was landlord of the Star and Garter pub (which appears on L/Ps website) he was given 9mths in 2007 for sexual assault on a young girl....from what I have found so far...he has a history of this...but google seems poor at searching both these subjects. Would appreciate any more info.

Can you give me a link to L/P's website?

 

[Robin Hood]

The Mystery 4x4

Unless there is some ulterior motive, it wouldn't be a bad idea for L/E to release the description of this vehicle.

When Jaycee Dugard was kidnapped in the US... they had a pretty good description of the vehicle that was used. That same vehicle was still in the PERPS backyard 20 years later well hidden behind some bushes... It makes me think that car is hidden well, but all it would take is a ton of nosy neighbors... and that mystery 4x4 might be found.

Thoughts?

My thoughts on the 4 x 4..see page 1 post 23

 

[Firefly75]

One secondary point, I haven't understood Mr Yeates' remark about the flat-tidying. We learn that Joanna and Greg were untidy. We learn that Joanna was planning to spend the weekend tidying. We learn that when Joanna's parents saw the flat, they concluded from this that she had been abducted. But was that because it was still untidy or because it was tidier than she was capable of making it ? Surely it is not beyond the bounds of conceivability for an untidy girl to plan to tidy her flat and then fail to do so even without being abducted or murdered? Good intentions sometimes yield to the weakness of the flesh.

It seems to me pretty clear from police statements that the killer did a thorough clean up job. He covered his personally identifiable traces, but not the fact that someone had been deliberately covering traces. That, if so, would provide additional proof that JY got home and was murdered there.
.

I don't know if this might help understand what Mrs. Yeates said, but my mother could tell, within a couple of minutes of coming home, who tidied up, my siblings, my father, or myself. It was minute details that she noticed, how one person did something, how each of us got the job done. Sometimes it was downright spooky, as if she'd been watching from outside (which was impossible as we didn't live on the groundfloor). I suppose Mrs. Yeates could have had her daughter sussed out when it came to tidying just as my mother had us.

 

[mikeymot]

Can you give me a link to L/P's website?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lorp/collections/72157623093758646/

This is his photo site.

 

[Firefly75]

I've wanted to say this for ages - Phillb, excellent work on maps and plans! I tip my hat to you. Incredibly good.

 

[Luna15]

This artcle (linked earlier: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...been-stashed-for-a-week-in-her-own-house.html) is particularly interesting to me, as are the questions about who would murder someone that was a random target and then move the body.

If the idea is that she was murdered, fully dressed with no sexual assault and then moved to a different location, I would say it was the boyfriend. That seems like a staging to make it look as though she was murdered somewhere other than her home ... to take the investigation away from home. If the body was stored in the shed and then moved to the other location ... maybe during those 4 hours between the boyfriend returning to the flat and raising the alarm ... then it points to the boyfriend. The circumstances seem to point to the boyfriend, but I'm guessing that there is an alibi through the brother and his family. If it wasn't the boyfriend, it has to be someone else that had reason to want investigators to look at the wrong location ... meaning ... to me ... that the murderer is very close to home.

I remembered when I read the bolded bit^ when Joanna's mum talked about Joanne & Greg, she said "they would cycle everywhere together", (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1345194/Joanna-Yeates-Murder-Did-Jo-buy-dinner-killer.html) I also remember reading that the tenant who used to live in their flat said that you would need to climb some stairs to get to the front door of the flat. I wonder whether they kept their bicycles in one of these sheds that are being examined? and if they had their own key for it? I would imagine it would be a bit of a mission to lug 2 bikes down the stairs everytime you'd been out in them?

Does anyone have a link to G/R full press conference? Theres a tiny clip on ITN source but the main part has been axed? http://www.itnsource.com/shotlist/ITN/2010/12/22/T22121033/?v=0&a=1
As of yet I have found no trace of him speaking. I know that he said " I thought we would be together forever"
All I could find was a 3 second clip of him 'squeezing' his eyes shut for the tears to fall. I find it very baffling that there has been a blackout of this.

That reminds of the murder of Rachel Mclean

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Rachel_McLean

That appeal footage has definately disappeard! Not only does this remind me of Rachel Mclean, it reminds me a great deal of Joanne Nelson, boyfriend made one of the most convincing appeals I've ever seen, he finally admitted it when the overwhelming evidence didn't give him any other choice.

Why would the police not be showing that footage on their website? :waitasec:

Great to see some new posters

 

[Robin Hood]

'it reminds me a great deal of Joanne Nelson, boyfriend made one of the most convincing appeals I've ever seen, he finally admitted it when the overwhelming evidence didn't give him any other choice'

http://dvmemorial.wordpress.com/2006/11/07/joanne-nelson/#more-48

Interesting read

 

[Phillb]

Ok just a few points to fill in regarding some earlier posts.

Yes the property is Victorian, and yes most Victorian properties do have cellars. Even back to backs built circa 1900 have cellars. I'm not 100% sure, but I would assume 44 Canynge Road is no different. In that case the cellar would run under Jo's flat, but you wouldn't be able to reach it from her flat, or any of the flats above hers. You can see the main front door to the property is on C.J's side. The main staircase to the house will be in that hallway, including the steps into the cellar underneath the main stair case.

The mail was delivered to the main communal hall, which is once again the front door at C.J's side.

Those outbuildings you can see connecting the properties is what the Police are interested in I.M.O. I can't see any signs of old wells, or anything subterranean in the vicinity.

 

[Firefly75]

I shouldn't think there are many people nowadays who aren't familiar with body language. It doesn't take an expert to see through any facade unless of course people in question are excellent actors.
If it was a kidnap plan arising from something to do with DY then it would explain the impression I got of them at the first press conference. I felt they were putting on a united front. That perhaps they weren't as 'close' a couple as they were making out to be.

I hear you. But we'll just have to agree to disagree. Yes, everyone knows something about body language, but it's not that simple. As Steinbeck wrote in Sweet Thursday, "Guy knows all about women, he don't know nothing about a woman." Body language is learned to a degree and there are no hard-and-fast rules that would apply without exceptions. What I am trying to say, which evidently might not have come through, is that
*people can't be condemned on grounds of body language alone, there needs to be either enough forensic proof or a confession to convince the court that someone is guilty (hence keeping an open mind is important);
*if we go solely on what people said about the body language of those who have done TV appeals or interviews for this case, the boyfriend did it and is being covered for by the (possibly lesbian butch) best friend (or the other way around), while the parents (who are pretending to be closer than they really are) had something to do with it, too. In my post I wanted to say that we might cut these people some slack and not judge them if we feel their body language is not what we think it should be, they've gone through hell and back and yes, they know more than they're saying because LE told them not to say certain things, probably because they felt they might jeopardize the investigation.

I didn't mean to get your (or anyone else's) feathers ruffled, but clearly I managed to. Boy howdy.