GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #6

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Other than police and the people that found the body, there's not much chance of further contaminating the scene by discussing the circumstance of finding the body. The photographer seems to be just outside of the police perimeter.

Could police be standing there, taking photos, after the crane and other vehicles left the area? If it's before, then Joanna is still there.

I think you have to rely on your intuition to to answer those questions in this case. The truth is no one on here knows because they weren't there. We can only assume what we think.

But given the fact that the dog walkers are still there, I would assume this photo was taken not long after the body had been found. Possibly an hour, or one and a half hours later at the very most.

The Police would only need to take a statement, get there addresses, contact numbers, verify these people are legit, and give them a talking to regarding the press, and not to say anything. I imagine they would be escorted home away from the press. They can be spoken to indepth in the comfort of their home.

I doubt they would have the dog walkers about when they were doing any probing of the body, and certainly not while they were lifting it out with a winch. That's showing very little respect I.M.O. They don't want Jo public to see that.

So the pic is shortly after the body was found.
J.M.O.

There is no EXIF data attached to the photo, just the date it was uploaded to the internet 28/12/2010.
 
I think you have to rely on your intuition to to answer those questions in this case. The truth is no one on here knows because they weren't there. We can only assume what we think.

But given the fact that the dog walkers are still there, I would assume this photo was taken not long after the body had been found. Possibly an hour, or one and a half hours later at the very most.

The Police would only need to take a statement, get there addresses, contact numbers, verify these people are legit, and give them a talking to regarding the press, and not to say anything. I imagine they would be escorted home away from the press. They can be spoken to indepth in the comfort of their home.

I doubt they would have the dog walkers about when they were doing any probing of the body, and certainly not while they were lifting it out with a winch. That's showing very little respect I.M.O. They don't want Jo public to see that.

So the pic is shortly after the body was found.
J.M.O.

Exactly ... while she was still there.
 
Where is the scene of crime tape?
If the men in white are forensic officers which I'm sure they are, they would have had the area where Jo was found securely cordoned off.
If the woman and man in red top are dog-walkers they wouldn't be allowed anywhere near once forensics were called in.
Where are the dogs by the way?

Best thing is to do a google search for images ''Jo Yeates Longwood Lane''
Hundreds come up. you can annalize and see as much cordon tape you like.
http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=e...source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1020&bih=578&sout=1
 
I'm pretty certain the Police and dog walkers seen here have moved a little away from the body to be honest.
All the other pics show the forensic tent to be on the other side of the boulder. Nothing is conclusive, but I can't see them gathered around with a corpse at their feet chatting. It just isn't done with members of the public is it?


I quite agree here.
I'm really surprised members of the public (dogwalkers) were allowed so near to scene of crime. Surely they would have been questioned (given tel no, address etc) before forensic officers got there and before being taped off. Once that has happened I thought mop were steered well away.
Looking again at photo dogwalkers? seem to be chatting to forensics but what about contamination etc?
Where are the dogs? I suppose they are being kept well back.
 
Sorry for going off topic regarding the location of Joanna's body, but would like to share what I've found so far in case it's of any use.

I was searching for evidence that it’s possible to tell whether or not a body had been moved regardless of its frozen state. So far I haven’t found anything but did come across the following bits of information.

Was the body moved?

As it’s uncertain how long it took for Joanna’s body to freeze in the icy conditions of Bristol at the time, or if there were any other things to take into consideration (was she held in a freezer before being left on Longwood Lane; was she immediately placed in a temporary place outside and then later moved to Longwood Lane; or was she at Longwood all along? I just can’t imagine the latter is correct) the following may not apply, but may be useful in some other way?

Insect evidence can be used to determine if a body has been moved, as certain species of insect are endemic, being unique to specific areas. For example, a body found in an urban environment would only hold rural insects if the corpse had been in a rural environment previously. This would suggest someone had moved it. Disturbances to insects’ life styles are also an indication of some post-mortem interruption.

I read some had wondered if the autopsy would reveal whether or not Joanna had eaten the pizza. Perhaps the following may help:

Warning!! Some graphic photos of bodies in various stages of decomposition in this book and the one that follows!

Gastric contents
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...esnum=3&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAjgU#v=onepage&q&f=false

The description of stomach contents has been used to estimate the time of death, if the time, volume, and character of the individuals last meal are know. On occasion, if pills are not digested, stomach contents provide a clue to a toxicological cause of death. The investigator may request that the pathologist examine the stomach, particularly if other post-mortem parameters were not recorded during the initial examination of the body at the scene.

Documentation of the type of food, its volume, and state of digestion is done at autopsy. One assumption is that if the contents are recognizable and distinctive, then a similar meal has not been eaten in the interim. Simultaneously ingested liquid, digestible solid, and nondigestible solid foods are emptied from the stomach at different rates. Liquids are emptied rapidly. Another assumption is that digestion and gastric emptying proceed at regular rates. Meals of high volume and caloric contents are emptied more slowly (e.g., light meal, 2 h; medium-sized meals, 3-4 h; heavy meals, 4-6 h), but digestion of various foods is variable and continues after death. Some foodstuffs (e.g., fibrous vegetables) are more resistant to digestion and persist in the stomach. Larger pieces of less-chewed food are digested more slowly and remain in the stomach longer. Gastric emptying varies in the same individual and between individuals under similar circumstances eating the same meal. Gastric emptying is affected by many factors. Some factors delaying emptying include trauma, shock, disease, increased intracranial pressure owing to head injury, emotional upset, thanol, and other drugs (e.g., narcotic analgesics.) Severe trauma can delay emptying up to several days. Stomach contents are rarely useful in estimating the time of death because of the many variables involved.

And some possible useful information on forensics from another Google book....again, please be warned that there are some graphic photos!

Google Books - forensics

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...resnum=10&ved=0CFgQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

Rigor mortis:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/body-farm.htm/printable

In order to understand how body farms work, it helps to know some basics about human death and decay. Though it sounds pretty macabre, it's perfectly normal for your body to go through some radical changes when you die.

To begin with, when your heart stops beating, your body's cells and tissues stop receiving oxygen. Brain cells are the first to die -- usually within three to seven minutes [source: Macnair]. (Bone and skin cells, though, will survive for several days.) Blood begins draining from the capillaries, pooling in lower-lying portions of the body, creating a pale appearance in some places and a darker appearance in others.

About three hours after death, rigor mortis -- a stiffening of muscles -- sets in. Around 12 hours after death, the body will feel cool, and within 24 hours (depending on body fat and external temperatures), it will lose all internal heat in a process called algor mortis. The muscle tissue begins to lose its stiffness after about 36 hours, and within about 72 hours of dying, the body's rigor mortis will subside.

As the cells die, bacteria within the body begin breaking them down. Enzymes in the pancreas cause the organ to digest itself. The body soon takes on a gruesome appearance and smell. Decomposing tissue emits a green substance, as well as gasses such as methane and hydrogen sulfide. The lungs expel fluid through the mouth and nose.

Insects and animals certainly take notice of all this. A human body provides sustenance and a great place for insects to lay eggs. A fly trying to find its way in this crazy, mixed-up world can eat well on a corpse, and then lay up to 300 eggs upon it that will hatch within a day.

Maggots -- the larvae that emerge from these eggs -- are extremely efficient and thorough flesh-eaters. Starting on the outside of the body where they hatched, maggots use mouth hooks to scoop up the fluids oozing out of the corpse. Within a day's time, the maggots will have entered the second stage of their larval lives, as well as burrowing into the corpse.

Moving around as a social mass, maggots feed on decaying flesh and spread enzymes that help turn the body into delectable goo. The breathing mechanism of a maggot is located on the opposite end of its mouth, enabling it to simultaneously eat and breathe without interruption around the clock. While a first-stage larva is about 2 millimeters long, by the time it exits the third stage and leaves the body as a prepupa, it may be as large as 20 millimeters -- 10 times its initial length. Maggots can consume up to 60 percent of a human body in under seven days [source: Australian Museum].

The environment in which a dead body is placed also affects its rate of decay. For instance, bodies in water decompose twice as fast as those left unburied on land. Decomposition is slowest underground -- especially in clay or other solid substances that prevent air from reaching the body since most bacteria require oxygen to survive.
 
Actually Phillb the soc tape was right before my eyes. :blush:
I thought I'd deleted post it but obviously not well enough.

Yeah I know i'd seen the cordon tape before. It's all different camera angles, all taken from a long distance away with zoom lenses. We get all sorts of different ideas that distort the picture enough to make things conflict.

It's setting things in the mind as ''concrete'' hard fact that sways sound judgement. Like tunnel vision, you pick the right track and your laughing, but if you pick the wrong one and adamantly refuse to consider alternatives, you've well and truly had it.

You wouldn't be able to catch a bus, let alone a killer!!!

It's a very baffling case indeed.
 
I.M.O the Police are not going to catch the killer from forensics/DNA found at Canynge Road or Longwood lane. They truly have to establish if the body was kept somewhere else first.

The chief suspect, so far from what I can see doesn't have a brilliant place to keep a body
(that is of course if the Police haven't blundered their initial search, when it was a missing persons enquiry)

If they suspect one of the 'also rans' in the frame, they need to establish which one, only then can they find the suitable body hiding place he might have had. They get the forensics from Jo there, he's banged to rights.

I have to say establishing how long that body was in Longwood Lane is crucial.
If their putting all their money on the body being there with ''assumptions'' for 8 days, just as the detective said, they could be sitting on top of the golden nugget all the time and not being able to see it.
 
I.M.O the Police are not going to catch the killer from forensics/DNA found at Canynge Road or Longwood lane. They truly have to establish if the body was kept somewhere else first.

The chief suspect, so far from what I can see doesn't have a brilliant place to keep a body
(that is of course if the Police haven't blundered their initial search, when it was a missing persons enquiry)

If they suspect one of the 'also rans' in the frame, they need to establish which one, only then can they find the suitable body hiding place he might have had. They get the forensics from Jo there, he's banged to rights.

I have to say establishing how long that body was in Longwood Lane is crucial.

I agree. DNA is not going to solve this. Where was the body between 17/12 and 24/12? Like Phillb, I just can't accept that it lay undiscovered on the verge of a well-frequented road for 7 days.

In my view, the body was in the boot of a car. Who needs a freezer, when outside temperatures that week never got above freezing, day or night? The police need to look at cars, find out which one was used, and then they have a case.

A car boot solves the problem of moving the body into a car, then somewhere else for storage, then back to a car. A car is the safest place to keep the body for a few days.

I feel that the police tend see DNA as the answer to everything. Maybe so in some cases. However I think some rather more old fashioned police work is going to solve this one.
 
I'm curious about this DNA they've found. Even if it is a tiny amount of, say, salivia, how do they know she didn't get it from being close to someone who accidently spat as they talked?

Would the size and shape of the sample distinguish between salivia left as above and a kiss on the check for example?
 
I'm curious about this DNA they've found. Even if it is a tiny amount of, say, salivia, how do they know she didn't get it from being close to someone who accidently spat as they talked?

Would the size and shape of the sample distinguish between salivia left as above and a kiss on the check for example?

I think their trumpeting this 'small' piece of DNA in the same way you would when you've lost a pound, and found a penny. I'm amazed it seems to be all they have. Just like the whole crime, nothing to go on.

Completely bizarre!
 
Myserty64 said:
So, what do you have to convince me GR should be in the 'frame.'

Instinct. Not enough, I know. If only we knew for sure his alibi were completely and utterly indisputable.

Today I shall try and get my brain working on a theory away from GR and review the facts and the previous threads here and see if I can come up with a motive other than 'possible sexual'.

This is the information the police have released. Is there anything pertinent I should add?

no increased risk to the public
no sign of forced entry
Jo got home and was killed in her flat
her body was on verge for several days [possibly]
sexual motive is a possibility
Jo knew the perp who was perhaps a friend on fb
one sock is missing, and a pizza + its box
a key piece of DNA was found on Jo's body
When asked to explain the comment 'her killers', LE commented: ''‘The phrase emphasises that I am not making any assumptions on this and I am keeping an open mind.’'
death by constriction to the neck and no sign of struggle


Do we know if the front door to the flat was unlocked when Greg got home? Surely that information is key.

(I must say I have never witnessed such a lovely message board where you are all so civil with one another. Not like the music BBs I frequent. ;)
 
J/Y may have spent more time on her way home according to the D/Express, saying she may have called in at the Clifton in Regent Street, a popular pub 10 minutes from her home.
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/223431/Did-Joanna-Yeates-leaving-early-give-killer-a-chance-

I think it would be a lot easier for a killer to pick someone up off the street and kill, rather than in the home and then having the job of moving the body and dropping by the roadside, and they could leave the body in the car boot for sometime.

But as the police are looking for a hiding place around the flat, they must think it lay there for sometime before moving, they would know what position the body lay, and maybe the position was not possible in a car, if a body was flat out on the floor, it would'nt fit in a car that way.

Interesting bit in the D/Mirror about DNA Testing.

Last night an employee of LGC Forensics, the firm involved, said: “We are working on the Jo Yeates *inquiry. We are *carrying out tests on DNA samples. I cannot comment further.”
The virtually-invisible samples, which might have come from the killer as he dumped Jo’s body, have been found by “swabbing” it with special chemicals.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/01/16/rachel-nickell-forensics-team-working-on-joanna-yeates-case-115875-22852257/
 
I hope with all my heart that the CCTV footage from the private house helps identify the perp. I don't think DNA is the way forward in this case, perhaps it's just not enough.

I also hope, for the sake of Jo's parents and brother, that the boyfriend really is innocent.
 
Instinct. Not enough, I know. If only we knew for sure his alibi were completely and utterly indisputable.

Today I shall try and get my brain working on a theory away from GR and review the facts and the previous threads here and see if I can come up with a motive other than 'possible sexual'.

This is the information the police have released. Is there anything pertinent I should add?

no increased risk to the public
no sign of forced entry
Jo got home and was killed in her flat
her body was on verge for several days [possibly]
sexual motive is a possibility
Jo knew the perp who was perhaps a friend on fb
one sock is missing, and a pizza + its box
a key piece of DNA was found on Jo's body
When asked to explain the comment 'her killers', LE commented: ''‘The phrase emphasises that I am not making any assumptions on this and I am keeping an open mind.’'
death by constriction to the neck and no sign of struggle


Do we know if the front door to the flat was unlocked when Greg got home? Surely that information is key.

(I must say I have never witnessed such a lovely message board where you are all so civil with one another. Not like the music BBs I frequent. ;)
Great list of what the undisputed facts are- easily lost sight of in a flood of speculation (especially my own!).

As regards your final paragraph, I would second that wholeheartedly- I have never encountered such an intelligent, and even more important, tolerant, group of people on the internet. It is both a pleasure and a privilege to participate.
 
I am getting a tad confused because of all this stuff that's being published in the newspaper. Rogue cop, possible stalker that may have spotted her in Regent St.... so why are they only looking at her friends then?
Gah.
 
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