GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #7

[Phillb]

BBM

I definately noticed that too.

Exactly.

Their still watching me!!
I better start crying again then :anguish:

Good editing with the screen grab skill enzeder.

 

[Deckard]

Hi, otto ... and the victim who wasnt in the flat either. So it's the pizza and the victim (alive or dead) taken from the flat, not just the pizza.

Everything else listed is no more than an armful.

What casts doubt on her returning is the lack of evidence, apparently, of a struggle in the location, forensic evidence of anyone else being in the flat, no one seeing her return and no one seeing her being bundled out to a car outside or leaving in her sock soles in the company of another party in what was, according to the police, a busy street that night and the next morning.

The only things which suggest she got back are those few items, as far as we know (and if there was more convincing evidence that she got back and was attacked there, the police would have cordoned it off right away, one would think, and would have told us thats where she was killed.)

And even those few items are missing a glaring piece - the pizza she had bought only moments before.

This still does not preclude GR from doing the deed. In fact imo Jo is more likely to enter a car of a person she knows. GR would then have to go to the dump site on Friday night before staging the flat and retreating to Sheffield.

What precipitated the murderous act ? A text from another peer group male didn't appear until 9:20pm .

 

[SirRobert]

Wrong, I think.

From the Avon and Somerset Police website :

28/12/2010 12:21

3/01/2011 14:50

8/01/2011 12:34

There is an unmistakable progression in the police judgement from opinion to certainty, as the evidence rolls in.

All that's as may be, Nausicaa. I will still wait to see the reconstruction of her actually returning to the flat, putting the key in the door and going in, because if they are so convinced she returned to the flat and was then either abducted from it alive or killed and her body moved by her killer, one would expect those items to be the main elements of a reconstruction for the reminding of witnesses.

Because those would be the two occasions when her killer would be in the same place as her at the same time.

She was either put into a car, alive or dead, from the flat; or was bundled out under duress and in odd circumstances, probably to a car. Those would be things people might want their memory jogged about.

There is a significant difference among all those comments above and a statement of fact in the case.

Its odd how comments from the police are regarded as cleverly and deliberately deceptive on the one hand, and statements of scientific fact on the other.

 

[Malaconotus]

Crimewatch producers call in Harry Potter fake snow firm to re-create day Jo Yeates' body was found in painstaking detail

It looks like they are going for accurate detail with location and snow cover depth for the day.

If it is accurate, then it means the deposition site is not where it was surmised earlier, but is actually about 75 yards further up the lane, north of the quarry, here... http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en...=NgNCaVENAR_TTlnDoxbVfg&cbp=11,166.27,,2,5.11

 

[Phillb]

If it is accurate, then it means the deposition site is not where it was surmised earlier, but is actually about 75 yards further up the lane, north of the quarry, here... http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en...=NgNCaVENAR_TTlnDoxbVfg&cbp=11,166.27,,2,5.11

It all depends what the finished article looks like on the film. This area could just be a test area, check the machines are working, and to get the correct depth of snow??? It only looks a very small area to me.
I should imagine they only want one go at it.

We shall see on Thursday next.

They never divulged what she was wearing when the body was found. All they said is she was missing one sock. But on the other hand, if she was in different clothing, they probably would have said 'We are certain Jo reached home as she had time to change her clothes'

She'd have the black trousers on, and dark green shirt if so.
There probably the best colours to stand out against a white snow ground.

 

[Patticake]

Hi, otto ... and the victim who wasnt in the flat either. So it's the pizza and the victim (alive or dead) taken from the flat, not just the pizza.

Everything else listed is no more than an armful.

What casts doubt on her returning is the lack of evidence, apparently, of a struggle in the location, forensic evidence of anyone else being in the flat, no one seeing her return and no one seeing her being bundled out to a car outside or leaving in her sock soles in the company of another party in what was, according to the police, a busy street that night and the next morning.

The only things which suggest she got back are those few items, as far as we know (and if there was more convincing evidence that she got back and was attacked there, the police would have cordoned it off right away, one would think, and would have told us thats where she was killed.)

And even those few items are missing a glaring piece - the pizza she had bought only moments before.

If it was GR then there is forensic evidence all over the flat that he lived there. On the other hand, fingerprints on the unopened pizza box and wrapping would conclusively indicate he was there during the time frame after JY's return to the flat.

I think he was in a panic and not thinking clearly Getting her body to the car was a monumental chore. He wanted to make as few trips as possible so he did not go back to retrieve the other items. The pizza with his fingerprints on the plastic wrapping had to go.

I can't tell you how many times I leave an item in my car overnight in the garage because I don't want to walk back again. I might leave a six-pack of soda or a few books in the trunk instead of walking out to the garage again.

.

 

[Phillb]

I think he was in a panic and not thinking clearly Getting her body to the car was a monumental chore. He wanted to make as few trips as possible so he did not go back to retrieve the other items. The pizza with his fingerprints on the plastic wrapping had to go.

.

If it were G.R, he seriously wouldn't understand the significance of that pizza. He would have no idea the Police had her on C.C.T.V buying it. That's backed up by the fact the Cider was still in the flat. G.R wouldn't know it was going to be so sought after. I don't think G.R would know Jo was so well tracked along her journey home t.b.h. I don't think he realised the importance of the reciepts in her bag. They'd have gone too I think.

As heartless as it seems, only someone very cold and calculating would be able to eat that Pizza. The bins in Canynge Road were emptied on Tuesday the 21st Dec. It will long since have been crushed I.M.O.

 

[Luna15]

Without a doubt he would have been - The next part I want to see is the one that G/R makes an appeal in front of the TV cameras. This I think will mean it imminent that an arrest is to be made

It all depends what the finished article looks like on the film. This area could just be a test area, check the machines are working, and to get the correct depth of snow??? It only looks a very small area to me.
I should imagine they only want one go at it.

We shall see on Thursday next.

one thing that is worrying me; a lot of effort seems to be going into this 'production' for Crimewatch..... the police must be pinning a lot of hope on this, so just how far forward are they on their own efforts? ...... not very far is my guess.

Did anyone else notice how Greg was the first to pull out of the photography posing, at the end of this clip? he seems to look upwards, raise his eyebrows, pull away from the pose, realises the other three are still motionless and rooted to the spot, and then goes back into pose. He also seemed to be holding onto something for support? the back of a chair? with his right hand, and the left one behind him..... still not wanting those hands on display then?

And a few seconds of those shots have definately been cut from yesterday, whereby you saw him for those few seconds going back into pose...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12218538

Be interesting if he does a bit to camera in the Crimewatch programme..... could they be setting him up for a fall? see if he changes anything from the previous appeal that has disappeared?

 

[TulipaNoir]

If it is accurate, then it means the deposition site is not where it was surmised earlier, but is actually about 75 yards further up the lane, north of the quarry, here... http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en...=NgNCaVENAR_TTlnDoxbVfg&cbp=11,166.27,,2,5.11

According to http://www.thisisbath.co.uk/news/Joanna-Parents-tearful-goodbye/article-3043420-detail/article.html

"After laying flowers they had an emotional hug with Greg, 27, Miss Yeates brother Chris and his girlfriend.

They then walked a further 200 yards up the lane to the exact spot where she was found, which is sealed off for forensic examinations.

The group walked back down the hill 10 minutes later, with Mrs Yeates clasping a tissue to her face as the tears spilled down her cheeks."


When facing the quarry entrance, would uphill be to the right, and downhill to the left?

 

[enzeder]

If it is accurate, then it means the deposition site is not where it was surmised earlier, but is actually about 75 yards further up the lane, north of the quarry, here... http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en...=NgNCaVENAR_TTlnDoxbVfg&cbp=11,166.27,,2,5.11

I was just checking that out myself and it does appear to be further along the lane. I came across this photo a couple of days ago which shows the CSI further along the lane as well.

 

[otto]

Hi, otto ... and the victim who wasnt in the flat either. So it's the pizza and the victim (alive or dead) taken from the flat, not just the pizza.

Everything else listed is no more than an armful.

What casts doubt on her returning is the lack of evidence, apparently, of a struggle in the location, forensic evidence of anyone else being in the flat, no one seeing her return and no one seeing her being bundled out to a car outside or leaving in her sock soles in the company of another party in what was, according to the police, a busy street that night and the next morning.

The only things which suggest she got back are those few items, as far as we know (and if there was more convincing evidence that she got back and was attacked there, the police would have cordoned it off right away, one would think, and would have told us thats where she was killed.)

And even those few items are missing a glaring piece - the pizza she had bought only moments before.

I simply don't see someone committing murder, and then going back to the victim's home to leaves keys, cell phone, boots and so on. That would require the belief that this is someone not particularly interested in abducting and murdering a woman, but more interested in playing head games with investigators - and that just doesn't seem likely. After the murder, that person is not going to take the risk that her disappearance has been noticed or that someone could arrive at any moment. The only thing that makes sense is that she arrived home, put her bag on the table, had a couple of sips of cider, and then something happened. It's conceivable that she had the pizza in her hands or tried to use the pizza to defend herself ... and the pizza was taken away because it contained evidence from the murderer.

 

[naturally suspicious]

Crocodile tears if ever i've seen them.
He even stops crying, looks at the cameras, see's there still filming, then starts crying again.
You can see he can't wait for the charade to end. He's mighty uncomfortable.

Huhm.

i am beginning to agree with you....
certainly the tears are shed and the eyes face front...
then back to more tears....bit like children who are conscious that they are being watched and want to obtain total sympathy from situation...

and in the group photo taken recently he looks the only person not contorted with grief...looks quite together, face not streaked by constant tears...
we have all been there...

thinking about what we know about the couple so far...

jo...affluent background, private education, much loved by many, loving to many, secure, has had boyfriends before, secure in her own skin...,slim,attractive, knows her own worth..

greg....state school, no view of parents , no feeling how they feel about him, she was first girlfriend, not secure in way that jo was secure...all pics she is smiling, cuddling friends..
how devastated would he be to find that within hours of his leaving his girlfriend had texted another man....
that may well have spelt the end of her life...
if i can't have you then no one will....

 

[Phillb]

Memorial to Joanna Yeates could be set up at Bristol 'super hospital'

North Bristol NHS trust and BDP, where murdered landscape architect worked, to co-operate on plans for permanent memorial

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jan/19/joanna-yeates-memorial

 

[otto]

This still does not preclude GR from doing the deed. In fact imo Jo is more likely to enter a car of a person she knows. GR would then have to go to the dump site on Friday night before staging the flat and retreating to Sheffield.

What precipitated the murderous act ? A text from another peer group male didn't appear until 9:20pm .

I doubt that she entered a car without shoes and a coat, neither of which were found with her. We have heard about the missing sock and pizza, but not about shoes and a coat ... so I'm going to assume that she left the flat without shoes and a coat - at least until there is information to suggest otherwise. I think we have to be careful not to insert information that we don't have.

I think it's highly likely that she opened the door to someone. It could be someone posing as a Christmas gift delivery person, or perhaps someone that she thought she recognized. I think she was over-powered and taken away from the flat. I think that if she was murdererd in the flat, the perp would have run away. I have considered the possibility that the boyfriend was involved, as removing the body from the scene cane be consistent with spousal homicides ... where the husband/boyfriend removes the body to make it appear as though something happened while the victim was out. However, so far there does not seem to be any building evidence against the boyfriend. We have not heard that he called his brother to say that he would be delayed by several hours, or that he said he would not be visiting and then arrived very late ... all of which would be expected if the boyfriend returned to the flat around 9 PM. I don't think the 9:20 text friend was involved, as his cell phone most likely places him at the party at 9:20 and with friends later.

 

[brummster]

As far as I'm concerned, the evidence (little we have so far) and 'instinct' based on body language etc that it's GR is very compelling for me. So much so that I'm trying to focus my mind on altenative possibilities to avoid getting blinkered .

 

[wfgodot]

i am beginning to agree with you....
certainly the tears are shed and the eyes face front...
then back to more tears....bit like children who are conscious that they are being watched and want to obtain total sympathy from situation...

and in the group photo taken recently he looks the only person not contorted with grief...looks quite together, face not streaked by constant tears...
we have all been there...

thinking about what we know about the couple so far...

jo...affluent background, private education, much loved by many, loving to many, secure, has had boyfriends before, secure in her own skin...,slim,attractive, knows her own worth..

greg....state school, no view of parents , no feeling how they feel about him, she was first girlfriend, not secure in way that jo was secure...all pics she is smiling, cuddling friends..
how devastated would he be to find that within hours of his leaving his girlfriend had texted another man....
that may well have spelt the end of her life...
if i can't have you then no one will....

Splendid post, naturally suspicious. Lays out well a case for motive, and does so in a strikingly cadenced, almost musical, way.

Truly a tone poem, one which ties together psychological aspects of a modern tragedy.

 

[otto]

According to http://www.thisisbath.co.uk/news/Joanna-Parents-tearful-goodbye/article-3043420-detail/article.html

"After laying flowers they had an emotional hug with Greg, 27, Miss Yeates brother Chris and his girlfriend.

They then walked a further 200 yards up the lane to the exact spot where she was found, which is sealed off for forensic examinations.

The group walked back down the hill 10 minutes later, with Mrs Yeates clasping a tissue to her face as the tears spilled down her cheeks."


When facing the quarry entrance, would uphill be to the right, and downhill to the left?

Yes, downhill appears to the left. I used google earth to measure 200 yards from the intersection and the quarry entrance. It seems like it could be measured from the intersection, and I wondered if 200 yards was a rather rough estimate.

 

[brummster]

I doubt that she entered a car without shoes and a coat, neither of which were found with her. We have heard about the missing sock and pizza, but not about shoes and a coat ... so I'm going to assume that she left the flat without shoes and a coat - at least until there is information to suggest otherwise. I think we have to be careful not to insert information that we don't have.

I think it's highly likely that she opened the door to someone. It could be someone posing as a Christmas gift delivery person, or perhaps someone that she thought she recognized. I think she was over-powered and taken away from the flat. I think that if she was murdererd in the flat, the perp would have run away. I have considered the possibility that the boyfriend was involved, as removing the body from the scene cane be consistent with spousal homicides ... where the husband/boyfriend removes the body to make it appear as though something happened while the victim was out. However, so far there does not seem to be any building evidence against the boyfriend. We have not heard that he called his brother to say that he would be delayed by several hours, or that he said he would not be visiting and then arrived very late ... all of which would be expected if the boyfriend returned to the flat around 9 PM. I don't think the 9:20 text friend was involved, as his cell phone most likely places him at the party at 9:20 and with friends later.

Not sure of the link but I'm sure it's been confirmed she was found wearing her coat. I'll look back.

 

[naturally suspicious]

also, nobody around to remind greg of acceptable conduct...

only one with a hat in longwood lane

hides hands, wipes (to wash your hands of guilt)....

keeps to background, doesn't interact with parents in way that her brother does, they don't cuddle him.

in latest pics he is wearing jeans and does not look upset..inappropriate dress....no respect...she deserved it for being so popular/texting another man who was not his friend but one of her brother's.
i'm guessing that he may well be cold individual who warms up in the presence of outgoing, lovely , feeling person...jo
she makes him feel whole in the way that no one before ever has....

but...the moment she reveals she is willing to look around and beyond him...for that w/e for male company..he feels that she is fading from his life...he is back to cold, ruthless feelings...that he doesn't like... so he has to put a stop to her generous personality that cd so easily be appreciated by another boyfriend....

has a fix on feelings as back afterwards to his own colder...sociopathic...personality...

i imagine he cd not believe his good fortune in meeting someone like jo, who made him ...and others...feel lovable

he copes , afterwards, after initial sobbing, because he alone knows what has happened to her...powerful situation...
her parents obviously equally generous of spirit


she was his future...puts it in past tense...

 

[enzeder]

Is there anyone who can help me out here please. The pic which I posted in post #252; which direction is South?. Is Providence Lane North or South of Longwood? tia

Jo was left on the verge of Longwood Lane – one of the first roads without houses a driver leaving Bristol in this direction will reach. It is 50 yards south of an entrance to a quarry, which would have been a more sensible and less noticeable place to pull over.

This suggests Jo was dumped in the middle of the night when the road was deserted, but the darkness meant the killer missed several better spots nearby to conceal her body properly.

Barely 50 yards from where dog walkers found her there is a gap in the wall leading into woods.

Opposite the floral tributes there is a gap between a wall and a fence at the quarry face. If you are strong enough to get a body into a car it will not take much more effort to get it in the gap. If Jo had been left there it is quite possible she would not have been found for years.

Read more: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...icked-after-unplanned-murder-115875-22818569/