GUILTY UK - Karen Buckley, 24, Glasgow, Scotland, 12 April 2015 - #1

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Alice Bernadette said:
I know it sounds awful to say but I have to admit I thought the same thing on seeing his picture. Very mean I know but just being honest. I do agree that it is odd that she left her coat and went off with this bloke. I feel very sad and think it is looking very grim.
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I've seen other photos where he looks more approachable so I'm not inclined to judge whether she would go home with him or not based on that one photo.
 
Anything is possible and this is just speculation but she possibly could have went to AP's car on a ruse. It might have happened how he said but a lot of his story doesn't ring true to me. I might of course be wrong but I find her leaving like that after telling her friends she was going to the toilet and disappearing after being last seen with this man very suspicious.
 
MissyLDT said:
I've seen other photos where he looks more approachable so I'm not inclined to judge whether she would go home with him or not based on that one photo.
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Yes, and bear in mind that the Daily Mail probably used the worst photo they could find of him.
 
YidArmyRach said:
I'm still open to the possibility that AP wasn't involved - its a small possibility admittedly. I know that it looks bad circumstantially and with all the searches focussed on and around his flat it looks bad for him - but as that was the last place Karen was known to be, then those places would have to be thoroughly searched, just like the houses of missing people are always searched first.

It is not impossible that a predator just happened to be in the park or around that area at 4.00am. Highly unlikely, but statistically not impossible.

I think what makes this so confusing is the fact she went out with friends, left her coat with friend and told them she was going to the toilet ....... then inexplicably left the nightclub with this man (do we know where and when they first met, was it that night?) Then didn't text her friends to let them know where she was going. That screams suspicious to me - but the police say that cctv implies she willingly left the club with this man, so removes the idea she was forcibly taken away. Although that could have come later.

The lack of contact with the friends between leaving the club and apparently leaving AP's flat at 4.00am makes me think that she wasn't in a position to use her phone, as surely you would let your mates know where you are, so they don't worry and spent time searching for you - but that theory lacks some weight when it appears that she chose to leave the club without informing her friends, if what the police have said is correct. Although they may be trying to lull AP into a false sense of security, letting him think they are on his side and believe his story when they suspect otherwise.

However, I agree with others that if she thought she was just going to get something with him, then she would have looked fine on cctv when she left. She would have left willingly - its after that, that the situation could have changed. That's why I find the lack of contact with friends very telling.

Have the friends spoken in public yet? Have they said if Karen was spending a lot of time with this man in the club? Did they go searching for her when the club closed, or was it usual for her to go off on her own like that?

I think the most worrying thing is the location of the handbag. IF she had been attacked on her way home, it seems odd that her bag just happened to be dumped in the opposite direction to where she was going - placing it (and perhaps her) nearer the flat she disappeared from, that the route home.
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BBM

Don't underestimate the number of junkies and drug dealers in Glasgow.
Parks are very popular areas for drug deals. Also a quick look at the Glasgow section on Craigslist will show you that a lot of interesting things go on in Glasgow's parks.
 
MissyLDT said:
I've seen other photos where he looks more approachable so I'm not inclined to judge whether she would go home with him or not based on that one photo.
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Yes of course. I was just agreeing with some other posters and I had to honestly admit what I thought on seeing his picture.
 
I find it hard to believe on seeing his picture that she would go home and have consensual sex if they were strangers, but alcohol does strange things so I wouldn't rule it out.
 
Maybe there are two Alexander Pacteau's in Glasgow after all? Because I just realised the counterfeiter who told the court last year he only did it because he was unemployed and on disability benefits (after a 2011 accident) and too ashamed to tell family, can't be the same one in this case, who has apparently been a director and/or employed in a family courier firm since 2010? If it is the same one, it is strange.

The counterfeiter also told the court about a furniture business he set up when he was only 17, but didn't mention the odd fact he'd set it up as a .org website - isn't that just for charities? It's vanished now, anyhow, but it was up and running at one time as he complained about the hits dropping off.

http://m.stv.tv/news/west-central/2...to-alexander-pacteau-printing-fake-banknotes/
 
This might get deleted, but AP's mum lives in Drymen, which is where the car was seen driving to that they want information on.
 
Those who are saying she may have gone to his car for another reason...what reason? I mean, it appears she simply left with him...not stood around the car talking or debating etc...jmo.
 
If he was sober enough to drive and she was still drunk, that does make the consent aspect questionable, so maybe that explain's the detective's odd wording.
 
cluciano63 said:
Those who are saying she may have gone to his car for another reason...what reason? I mean, it appears she simply left with him...not stood around the car talking or debating etc...jmo.
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Purchasing something from him. Something you can't buy in shops. If you get my drift.
 
bettiepageturner said:
If he was sober enough to drive and she was still drunk, that does make the consent aspect questionable, so maybe that explain's the detective's odd wording.
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Is there any evidence she was drunk? Her friends said she wasn't.
 
cluciano63 said:
Those who are saying she may have gone to his car for another reason...what reason? I mean, it appears she simply left with him...not stood around the car talking or debating etc...jmo.
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This is purely an example, I am NOT suggesting it happened, but people leave clubs to pick up drugs.
 
bettiepageturner said:
If he was sober enough to drive and she was still drunk, that does make the consent aspect questionable, so maybe that explain's the detective's odd wording.
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I find it strange that anyone would be sober at 1.00am after a night in a club - I mean, who drives to a nightclub? That means not drinking alcohol all night, which for a 21 year old man, seems an odd night out. It wasn't as if he was the designated driver, and he didn't live that far away.

Actually, that has got me wondering - who was he there with? Surely he didn't go to a club all by himself?
 
Imo, Karen getting into the car and leaving with this man, for whatever reason, shows how we can never say that someone close to us "would never" do this or that. I am sure that if not on tape, her loved ones would be convinced she was forcibly taken away in the car, jmo. We just can't know for sure what another person would or would not do. We probably cannot even say with certainty what we ourselves would do, or not do, in every circumstance.

I wonder if we will ever know for sure what took place that made her agree to accompany him to his home.

Jmo
 
Cappuccino said:
Is there any evidence she was drunk? Her friends said she wasn't.
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We just had a case here in the US where a woman drove into a lake after leaving a bar...friends insisted she had only one drink, but tox results have shown she was very intoxicated indeed...I think her name was April?
 
Am I the only one who thought it was odd for the police to say in the press conference that the man and Karen had consensual sex at his flat?
 
It seems Mr Pacteau is in a bit of a sticky situation. I'm trying not to point the finger without further evidence, but him admitting to consensual sex could certainly be seen as preparing for his DNA being found on Karen.

yellowxo said:
I find it hard to believe on seeing his picture that she would go home and have consensual sex if they were strangers, but alcohol does strange things so I wouldn't rule it out.
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Perhaps one might do so, then have second thoughts and leave at 4am rather than waiting until morning?

I'm sure the Daily Mail have managed to find the worst possible photo of him, anyway. He might not usually look like that.

YidArmyRach said:
This is purely an example, I am NOT suggesting it happened, but people leave clubs to pick up drugs.
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Yes, that crossed my mind too.

I would like to know if there had been any past contact between Karen and AP.
 
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