GUILTY UK - Katie Rough, 7, killed by teen, Woodthorpe, York, 10 Jan 2017

[Ruthbullock]

Having worked with CAMHS in York, the service is massively overstretched. If this 15 year old was under them she would likely have been having problems for over a year, as thats generally the minimum waiting time to be seen! If MH is a factor in this case, it really highlights the need for better children's Mental Health services in the UK

We were seen within a month, several friends in the last six months have all had their children seen within the month of referral. It may have been misjudged by whoever was her caseworker, but york mental health team are amazing for children. Issues with adult mental healthcare exists at the moment, but not children.

 

[eneri12]

My own opinion of the girl in the wedding photos is that she sticks out a bit with her outfit, but other than that tbh I feel she looks like any other teenager. That's all I'll say on the subject as I don't think it's really relevant how she looks in photos, many people commit crimes or have mental health problems and as soon as we know this, many people attribute how they look in certain pictures as an indication all was not well when in fact they looked completely "normal" (apologies, I hate that word) , I think there's a name for it but I can't think of it just now.
As someone else pointed out, and from experience in my work with teenagers many of whom have mental health problems, mental health services for children and teenagers such as CAMHS are woefully inadequate right across the country. This is evidenced in yearly stats on waiting times, the volume of school time missed, and subsequent referrals to charities and private sector services to provide the support that CAMHS should be providing. Not to mention the long lasting effects of not having treatment which carries on throughout adulthood. So much for early intervention.
Imo, the knife doesn't necessarily indicate premeditated to me. Like others have suggested, she may have carried a craft knife for self harming. I have personally worked with several kids around that age who carried these kinds of knives alongside razor blades, blades from sharpeners and others.
I really, genuinely feel for the whole family, not one child lost here but potentially 2 and the effects on the whole family will be felt for years to come.

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[Spellbound]

I do believe her mom picked her up. It makes sense. I just found it odd that they would state that. It is slightly strange they haven't actually said what happened after school. The police asked for anyone with information between 3-5 but haven't said who picked her up or how she got home. The only other information where given is the mothers call at 16:50 stating Katie was missing and had been for 45 minutes.

Also it was 13 minutes prior when 15 yo placed her phone call meaning it was between 16:05 and 16:37 when she was left alone with the 15 yo.

re the BBM (bolded by me)

We don't know, unless I missed something else, whether she was actually left alone with the 15 year old, or if she went outside on her own, or if she had mom's permission to be outside. Seems if mom had known they were together, she would have told that to law when she reported Katie was missing. As far as I know, there was never any mention of her being with a sister or a q5 year old, or anyone else.....?


When stating things, we have to remember to quote a link (if it can be) or to say JMO (just my opinion) or something similar. Not directed toward anyone in particular, but with so many new people we seem to be getting away from that major rule here at WS. You'll all catch on quickly. and thanks!

 

[Spellbound]

Ya know, I have mulled over whether the 15 year old had been or is currently under mental health care, yet at this point it seems out of reach to dissect it. Some people, young and old, do get mental health services for what many would consider to be minor problems as opposed to being treated for major issues. Not knowing what her care, if any, was for, then discussing it here can only be speculative. At least, that is how I see it to this point. If it is ever confirmed via a reliable news source, I might have more to add to the subject, but for now --- is a moot point for me.

oh boy, I sure could use a list of what is considered reliable news vs unreliable. I think "magazine" type sites (particulared geared toward entertainment) are less inclined to proofread or verify info.

all JMO

 

[FlossyMay]

Is it illegal to carry a knife around in the UK or does that only apply to minors? I noticed there was a charge against her for the weapon.

 

[RocketFuel]

I cant explain about the photos. It isn't something caught in a second by the camera..... it's something I feel is pertinant to the case. I'll leave it there

Dress style?



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[LozDa]

Is it illegal to carry a knife around in the UK or does that only apply to minors? I noticed there was a charge against her for the weapon.

Knife laws in the UK:

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

 

[Insp.Dots]

I was livid because the school felt it appropriate to open the doors and let the children out without an adult being there as school policy is year 3 and above can walk home alone- if I was running late my daughter would be stood standing,alone, on the school ground The school would not necessarily know that I had not arrived and as can be seen from our time on here a lot can happen when a child is left alone, especially at that age.

In the younger years (and up until the new system was implemented - all years up until year 5 and 6) children were not let out until a named adult collected the child. Now they are being let out with no thought as to whether that child is supposed to be being picked up by an adult or not - purely because they deem it acceptable that anyone age 6 and above is able to walk home alone.

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That is bad, especially as Children all mature at very different ages and as you noted 'School Gates' are the perfect place for would-be abductors etc. Our School here in Cornwall has the same rule that only years 5 & 6 can leave unaccompanied. A teacher/assistant stand at the gate until all those years have gone and if the parent is late they have to go in through the School building and collect child who has been returned to wait inside. Also the older years come out of a different gate to make it clearer to everyone.
I believe we also have metal detectors at the main entrance now too! Sad times we live in!

 

[bessie]

ADMIN NOTE: Before the rumors and innuendo grow any further out of control, I'm going to close the thread for admin review and (extensiive) clean up. It will re-open later today or this evening.

 

[bessie]

The thread is open again for posting.

DO NOT sleuth and stalk family and friends in social media, and then talk about it here. What you read on FB, remains on FB

Remember that the accused is a minor. Post with caution. Any and all allegations MUST be supported by a link to a legitimate news (MSM), or law enforcement, source.

Again, individuals other than the accused are OFF LIMITS. No speculation. No FB stalking.

Suggested reading:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2279603

 

[SaberTooth]

Update on the case: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-38610922

"The 15-year-old girl, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, appeared via video link at Leeds Crown Court.... The girl did not speak during the five-minute hearing as her solicitor confirmed her name when asked by Judge Peter Collier QC.She is next due to appear for a pre-trial hearing at Leeds Crown Court on 16 February.
Due to her age, the judge and court officials did not wear gowns or wigs."

 

[Lisalou124]

We were seen within a month, several friends in the last six months have all had their children seen within the month of referral. It may have been misjudged by whoever was her caseworker, but york mental health team are amazing for children. Issues with adult mental healthcare exists at the moment, but not children.

Depends on what they were being seen for. Most assessments have between 10 month and 24 month waiting lists from referral. In my experience there is large waiting lists for children under CAMHS in the city.

 

[sirdystic]

Katie had no step-siblings.

http://swns.com/news/15-year-old-girl-arrested-following-the-death-of-a-seven-year-old-child-80382/

 

[Spellbound]

http://swns.com/news/15-year-old-girl-arrested-following-the-death-of-a-seven-year-old-child-80382/

I had the same reaction at first. But then I realized that technically, Katie is half-sister to the daughter of her father. They both have the same dad. But mom is a stepmother to the older daughter.

 

[MalloryPike]

http://swns.com/news/15-year-old-girl-arrested-following-the-death-of-a-seven-year-old-child-80382/

Same father equals half siblings, not step. I believe that is what the poster you quoted was getting at.


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[Spellbound]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-38610922

The girl did not speak during the five-minute hearing as her solicitor confirmed her name when asked by Judge Peter Collier QC.
She is next due to appear for a pre-trial hearing at Leeds Crown Court on 16 February.

 

[Cherwell]

There is a very important difference between step-siblings and half-siblings.
Half-siblings share the same parent (either mother or father) so are closely related.
There is no blood relationship between step-siblings. A step-sibling is a child of the person one of your parents has married, but not of one of your own parents.

People sometimes dismiss this airily, saying "It's the same thing". But it is not.

 

[Cherwell]

I cant explain about the photos. It isn't something caught in a second by the camera..... it's something I feel is pertinant to the case. I'll leave it there

Dress style?

IF that is what it is, I can't see anything significant in itself. It reminds me of a girl I used to know who dressed in a similar style as a teenager, and later came out as gay. Some gay women favour a more masculine style of dress.
But it may be simply that she doesn't like "girly" clothes.

 

[nothinonyou]

IF that is what it is, I can't see anything significant in itself. It reminds me of a girl I used to know who dressed in a similar style as a teenager, and later came out as gay. Some gay women favour a more masculine style of dress.
But it may be simply that she doesn't like "girly" clothes.

being gay isn't something pertinent to the case

 

[Elainera]

Update on the case: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-38610922

"The 15-year-old girl, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, appeared via video link at Leeds Crown Court.... The girl did not speak during the five-minute hearing as her solicitor confirmed her name when asked by Judge Peter Collier QC.She is next due to appear for a pre-trial hearing at Leeds Crown Court on 16 February.
Due to her age, the judge and court officials did not wear gowns or wigs."

This is interesting. She was not required to confirm her name herself and judge and officials did not wear gowns/wigs. Is this always done like this when the accused is a minor or is this just for her?