GUILTY UK - Katie Rough, 7, killed by teen, Woodthorpe, York, 10 Jan 2017

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1:27pm
Mr Justice Soole is spending the lunch break at Leeds Crown Court deciding whether he will pass sentence today or adjourn while psychiatrists from both defence and prosecution discuss the teenager’s mental state.

Earlier Graham Reeds, prosecuting, said the girl had planned the killing in advance and had taken a Stanley knife with two spare blades to “The Square”, the playing field off Alness Drive where Katie was fatally injured.

The teenager’s mental health had deteriorated for several months and she developed a taste for the “macabre”. She believed other people were “robots” and “not human” and was receiving counselling.

She was also on medication for depression.

Mr Reeds said at 4.35pm on January 9, the teenager phoned 999. She was standing in Alness Drive, Woodthrope, covered in mud with a bloodstained hand and seemed not to know where she was.

Local resident Peter Mills saw her and while his wife took her into their home, he went down the path leading to The Square, where he found Katie fatally injured and bleeding from a wound to her neck.

He couldn’t detect a pulse or her heart and went back to his home to call for paramedics and to fetch a torch as it was now dark.

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/15386608.Katie_Rough_s_killer_due_to_be_sentenced_today/
 
Maybe she routinely carried it

The daily fail is saying the defendant self harmed and had done so only 2 days prior to the murder. It is likely she regularly carried a knife for that purpose.

It has also been said that she was suffocated. It sure if that was the only cause of death though.


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Antidepressants and counselling for a child suffering from psychosis?? I hope a useful serious case review comes out of this. <modsnip>


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http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-40478679
Includes short video of mom speaking
Katie was found with severe lacerations to her neck and chest on a playing field in Woodthorpe, York, on 9 January. She died later in hospital.

Graham Reeds QC, prosecuting, said: "We are going to accept that plea of manslaughter by diminished responsibility."

Mr Reeds said the teenage girl had undergone four psychiatric and psychological assessments and said there was no dispute that her mental health problems meant she was suffering from diminished responsibility at the time she killed Katie, even though the killing was planned.
A post-mortem examination showed Katie had two severe cuts to her body - one to her neck and the other to her torso - but neither caused her death.
The prosecutor said Katie had been smothered before the cuts were made.


http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-40480433
Parents relive finding body


Mrs Rough told BBC Look North: "We found her at the same time as a police officer found her. I cradled her. I saw her injuries and I knew she was gone. It's impossible to describe.
"We just held each other as the police officer started CPR and then the ambulance arrived and carried on the CPR, but we knew, we had seen her. We knew she was gone.
"They put us in a police van and blue-lighted us to the hospital. All our family came."
Mrs Rough said it was "quite a while" before doctors came to speak to the family, but added that they "they didn't have to tell me".


 
Antidepressants and counselling for a child suffering from psychosis?? I hope a useful serious case review comes out of this. <modsnip>


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Ding Ding. I'm speechless, yet not surprised. Antidepressants at 15 is NOT A GOOD IDEA alone, never mind when showing signs of psychosis and delusions.

ETA: Just to add we don't know which came first, it could be that she was given medication for depression, then psychosis developed. A likely scenario IMHO
 
1:36pm
A pathologist and a forensic scientist later established the teenager had smothered Katie with a green glove over her face.

Police later found in the teenager&#8217;s bedroom a mutilated Simba soft toy which had been cut by a knife.

Paramedics treated Katie at the scene and continued to try and resuscitate her as she was taken to York Hospital by ambulance but without success.

She was pronounced dead at the hospital at 5.40pm.

Police found paper pieces in The Square on which the 16-year-old had drawn stick people depicting scenes of killing and death with the words &#8220;they are not human&#8221; and &#8220;they are not real&#8221;.

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/15386608.Katie_Rough_s_killer_due_to_be_sentenced_today/
 
1:47pm
The teenager entered her plea by writing guilty on the indictment and signing it.

Her solicitor Colin Byrne then confirmed what she had written.

She did not speak throughout the hearing, including when she was asked her name. Her solicitor, who was sitting next to her in a room linked to the courtroom by video link, confirmed her identity for her.

1:49pm
Nicholas Johnson QC said the teenager&#8217;s mental state could be due to a traumatic event in her childhood about which she was unable to speak.

She believed that other people were controlled by a &#8220;higher and hostile&#8221; force.

He said of a social media posting two days before the killing: &#8220;We submit she was clearing crying out for help and support.&#8221;

Since her arrest and remand to a secure children&#8217;s home, her mental health had improved.

&#8220;She is no longer, we submit, significantly and severely depressed."

She was taking part in social activities and responding to staff.

He pleaded for the judge to pass a sentence that would enable her to stay at the home for as long as possible.

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/15386608.Katie_Rough_s_killer_due_to_be_sentenced_today/
 
1:53pm
The judge has read reports from psychiatrists that disagree on a diagnosis for the teenager&#8217;s mental condition, but agree that it had substantially affected her mental processes in the run-up to the killing.

Mr Reeds said the Crown Prosecution Service had discussed the case &#8220;at the highest level&#8221; including with the Chief Crown Prosecutor before deciding to accept the plea of manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility.

Katie&#8217;s family had been told about the decision before the court hearing.

Both Katie&#8217;s mother and father had sent victim impact statements to the judge but asked for them not to be made public.

1:54pm
Leeds Crown Court heard the judge has to decide whether to pass a sentence of custody for life, the child&#8217;s equivalent of a life sentence, an extended sentence which would provide extra supervision for the teenager after her release, or confine her under the Mental Health Act.

Two doctors have to agree that a hospital order is needed before one can be passed and the court has heard only one doctor says one is needed.

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/15386608.Katie_Rough_s_killer_due_to_be_sentenced_today/
 
1:12pm
The judge may adjourn sentence until after psychiatrists from both the defence and prosecution have met.

12:48pm
Nicholas Johnson QC described the killer as "an extremely troubled and damaged teenager".

He said that although she was not the victim, the 16-year-old had shown the classic symtoms of post traumatic stress syndrome.

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/15386608.Katie_Rough_s_killer_due_to_be_sentenced_today/

from your article, http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/15386608.Katie_Rough_s_killer_due_to_be_sentenced_today/


1:54 pm:
Leeds Crown Court heard the judge has to decide whether to pass a sentence of custody for life, the child&#8217;s equivalent of a life sentence, an extended sentence which would provide extra supervision for the teenager after her release, or confine her under the Mental Health Act.
Two doctors have to agree that a hospital order is needed before one can be passed and the court has heard only one doctor says one is needed.

1:53 pm:
The judge has read reports from psychiatrists that disagree on a diagnosis for the teenager&#8217;s mental condition, but agree that it had substantially affected her mental processes in the run-up to the killing.

1:49 pm:
Nicholas Johnson QC said the teenager&#8217;s mental state could be due to a traumatic event in her childhood about which she was unable to speak.

She believed that other people were controlled by a &#8220;higher and hostile&#8221; force.
He said of a social media posting two days before the killing: &#8220;We submit she was clearing crying out for help and support.&#8221;
Since her arrest and remand to a secure children&#8217;s home, her mental health had improved.
&#8220;She is no longer, we submit, significantly and severely depressed."

1:47 pm:
The teenager entered her plea by writing guilty on the indictment and signing it.

Her solicitor Colin Byrne then confirmed what she had written.
She did not speak throughout the hearing, including when she was asked her name. Her solicitor, who was sitting next to her in a room linked to the courtroom by video link, confirmed her identity for her.

A pathologist and a forensic scientist later established the teenager had smothered Katie with a green glove over her face.

1:36 pm:

A pathologist and a forensic scientist later established the teenager had smothered Katie with a green glove over her face.
Police later found in the teenager&#8217;s bedroom a mutilated Simba soft toy which had been cut by a knife.

1:27 pm:

Earlier Graham Reeds, prosecuting, said the girl had planned the killing in advance and had taken a Stanley knife with two spare blades to &#8220;The Square&#8221;, the playing field off Alness Drive where Katie was fatally injured.
The teenager&#8217;s mental health had deteriorated for several months and she developed a taste for the &#8220;macabre&#8221;. She believed other people were &#8220;robots&#8221; and &#8220;not human&#8221; and was receiving counselling.
She was also on medication for depression.
Mr Reeds said at 4.35pm on January 9, the teenager phoned 999. She was standing in Alness Drive, Woodthrope, covered in mud with a bloodstained hand and seemed not to know where she was.


 
OT... sort of.

Sorry to duplicate what you posted, Skibs. You just have posted while I was still making mine. I will sit back and follow along for now. Thank you for doing this.
 
If she'd been confined under the Mental Health Act prior to the crime then so many futures would have been protected. If any professionals knew of her delusions and/or the traumatic event alluded to then I think this was really preventable.
 
OT... sort of.

Sorry to duplicate what you posted, Skibs. You just have posted while I was still making mine. I will sit back and follow along for now. Thank you for doing this.

No worries spelly! I have to go out now and may not be back in time for when the court returns from lunch. If you don't mind continuing that would be great!
 
I'm confused about the cause of death.
They say she was smothered - then that the two knife wounds did not cause her death - yet she "died later in hospital".
Perhaps it's just a technicality, that death wasn't officially pronounced until she was brought to the hospital.
 
I'm confused about the cause of death.
They say she was smothered - then that the two knife wounds did not cause her death - yet she "died later in hospital".
Perhaps it's just a technicality, that death wasn't officially pronounced until she was brought to the hospital.

Yes, I was thinking that too but I think as CPR was done on finding her and in the ambulance she didn't count as officially dead until the decision to stop was made.
 
Also, if she believed Katie was a robot I wonder if the cuts were to do with proving that she wasn't real :(
 
It would be appropriate to remove the word "murdered" from the thread title since it's been agreed that this is not a murder case.
 
1:47pm
The teenager entered her plea by writing guilty on the indictment and signing it.

Her solicitor Colin Byrne then confirmed what she had written.

She did not speak throughout the hearing, including when she was asked her name. Her solicitor, who was sitting next to her in a room linked to the courtroom by video link, confirmed her identity for her.

1:49pm
Nicholas Johnson QC said the teenager’s mental state could be due to a traumatic event in her childhood about which she was unable to speak.

She believed that other people were controlled by a “higher and hostile” force.

He said of a social media posting two days before the killing: “We submit she was clearing crying out for help and support.”

Since her arrest and remand to a secure children’s home, her mental health had improved.

“She is no longer, we submit, significantly and severely depressed."

She was taking part in social activities and responding to staff.

He pleaded for the judge to pass a sentence that would enable her to stay at the home for as long as possible.

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/15386608.Katie_Rough_s_killer_due_to_be_sentenced_today/

BBM I think this is very confusing. It's one thing to plead diminished responsibility, and another - I would say - to try so soon to diminish the extent of her mental illness and thus put forward softer options over sentencing, as the defence appears to be doing.

I have never heard of depression being the cause of an impulse to kill others. While it doesn't say that the killing was attributed to depression, it is implied by the repeated references to it. That and PTSD. This belief (as accepted) that people are not real, is a delusion of the highest order, and if it was caused by drugs (prescribed or otherwise) it needs an explanation.

If it wasn't caused by drugs then I can't accept that such a serious disorder of the mind is being resolved through counselling or care.

Something isn't right with this.
 
BBM I think this is very confusing. It's one thing to plead diminished responsibility, and another - I would say - to try so soon to diminish the extent of her mental illness and thus put forward softer options over sentencing, as the defence appears to be doing.

I have never heard of depression being the cause of an impulse to kill others. While it doesn't say that the killing was attributed to depression, it is implied by the repeated references to it. That and PTSD. This belief (as accepted) that people are not real, is a delusion of the highest order, and if it was caused by drugs (prescribed or otherwise) it needs an explanation.

If it wasn't caused by drugs then I can't accept that such a serious disorder of the mind is being resolved through counselling or care.

Something isn't right with this.

I agree, and so it seems do some of the experts.

(I suffer from PTSD)
 
I wonder what the traumatic childhood experience was. Must be really serious to have this consequence.

Is court still ongoing today?


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