Found Deceased UK - Leah Croucher - Emerson Valley - Milton Keynes - #7

[Jaesu]

As I said, could be for international channels not available on standard services in the UK.

Wires could be capped, pushed through, and a receiver installed later.

Again I'm not sure this is something that needs to be pondered on too hard, there are many simple explanations for this.

EtA - if you look at the orientation of the satelites/receivers they point to significantly different places, which suggests they are servicing different providers.

So could this be done without going inside the property?
I only know from a family member installing a motorised satellite some years ago that they had to drill and feed the wires through (and that required popping inside).

 

[Cherwell]

I just want to know on what evidence the police named him as a suspect? Other than the owner saying be had keys to the property? Even then being at the property doesn't prove he is a murderer. I also can't believe that no one else has entered the property either then or since. For example the people who entered the property in Monday and found items of concern? Who have them keys? If we are to believe Leahs remains and belongings have been at the house since February 2019 ,then the owners stayed there in July 2019 get noticed nothing of concern yet over 3 years later people enter the house and immediately contact police because of concerns. That makes no sense either IMO

The police will know all the details by now, but they won't be giving a running commentary. We will no doubt be told more in due course.

I had thought that the owners would most likely use a property management company. But the police said that the owners had employed him no mention of a company. If it was a company I assume they gave the owners NM name to give to the police. Still doesn't mean he was the only one with a key or had access though.

More likely the owners gave the police the name of the letting agency or management company, and the police followed up. I do not think they would have named NM as a suspect without good supporting evidence. Just because they have not disclosed it yet doesn't mean that there is none.

 

[Kinners_D]

So could this be done without going inside the property?
I only know from a family member installing a motorised satellite some years ago that they had to drill and feed the wires through (and that required popping inside).

It's more common to do the complete installation at once, internal and external cabling but it's not unusual to hang the satellite and either feed the cables through or leave the internal install to a later date.

To add - installing a satellite service is a pretty specialised job, so not something I would expect a run of the mill handyman to be doing

 

[OceanElix]

There's specialist insurance available for unoccupied houses.

Having had this type of insurance before, the insurance co still required me to agree to checking the property periodically.
ime imo

 

[Kinners_D]

Having had this type of insurance before, the insurance co still required me to agree to checking the property periodically.
ime imo

Did you have to negotiate or specify what constituted periodically?

Also the house seems to have been under the care of a management agent so it may have been part of their contract to do the check ins.

 

[Vera_dci]

I have another niggling thought : Would NB hand the key back before committing suicide. Id expect this to be the least of his worries and also it may mean Leah was discovered before he had chance to commit suicide. If not, as a home owner wouldn't you be concerned if a stranger had a key to your property and then becomes uncontactable : wouldnt you change the locks as a precaution?

 

[Normal Norm]

As I said, could be for international channels not available on standard services in the UK.

...

...

EtA - if you look at the orientation of the satelites/receivers they point to significantly different places, which suggests they are servicing different providers.

Edited by me for brevity.

I would say "definitely" rather than "could be" - both dishes are significantly bigger than needed to receive the normal UK satellite services provided by Sky and Freesat. They are also of a different shape (round) compared to the elliptical shape of domestic dishes. At a guess, I would say that they are set up to receive broadcasts from Eastern Europe and the Middle East, but I don't know what (if any) significance can be attached to that.

 

[Kinners_D]

Edited by me for brevity.

I would say "definitely" rather than "could be" - both dishes are significantly bigger than needed to receive the normal UK satellite services provided by Sky and Freesat. They are also of a different shape (round) compared to the elliptical shape of domestic dishes. At a guess, I would say that they are set up to receive broadcasts from Eastern Europe and the Middle East, but I don't know what (if any) significance can be attached to that.

Agree 100%.

I have parked this away with ladder discussions, it's not relevant, other than to say a satellite was installed sometime between mid 2019 and now.

 

[Kinners_D]

I have another niggling thought : Would NB hand the key back before committing suicide. Id expect this to be the least of his worries and also it may mean Leah was discovered before he had chance to commit suicide. If not, as a home owner wouldn't you be concerned if a stranger had a key to your property and then becomes uncontactable : wouldnt you change the locks as a precaution?

Having let a property before I trusted my management agent to handle all of this.

If the workmen ever lost or failed to return keys it was part of my contract with the agent that they agents would replace the locks at their cost as they engaged the wokmen. If the keys weren't returned to the management agency I would expect this to be the case.

It's feasible that he could have had an additional set of keys cut but that's pretty much unknowable.

However, if he had access, unknown to anyone then why wouldn't he make an attempt to return and dispose of the non-body evidence at a minimum. To me this is an indicator that his access to the property was revoked either by his returning the keys or the locks being changed.

Thinking on it more, timings of his suicide suggest to me that he didn't return his keys and thought he had more time to hide things better, returned there sometime to find the locks changed... just imagine how you would feel, he'd have no idea why the locls were changed, had something been found? The paranoia and anxiety kick in and he cowards his way off the mortal coil.

Given the local media reporting of the case at the time its possible he left it some time before returning to the house trying to stay away from the immediate focus of the police and public (I.e. Germany routes to work). He killed himself 6-8 weeks after she disappeared (please correct me if I'm wrong) and that is a reasonable "cooling down" period before going back to clear up.

 

[porkypies]

I think the escalation to murder is always going to be classified as significant. I do however believe there will be more victims of his sexual assaults out there who for various reasons had not come forward.

I'm still of the opinion that he underestimated Leah, maybe thinking she was quiet, reserved and younger than she was, also with her self defense abilities, regardless of how successfully deployed she would have been more resistant than he expected and the murder occurred out of necessity or by accident. I don't think this started with murder as the expectation.

That's an interesting view.
Can you expand on how the victim in this case would have had to act in order to prevent her own unnecessary or accidental murder?
And how in that case, would she have walked out of the situation alive, and what the murderer's expectation was with regard to his own safety and ongoing freedom as she left?

 

[BrianJohnson]

Having let a property before I trusted my management agent to handle all of this.

If the workmen ever lost or failed to return keys it was part of my contract with the agent that they agents would replace the locks at their cost as they engaged the wokmen. If the keys weren't returned to the management agency I would expect this to be the case.

It's feasible that he could have had an additional set of keys cut and that's pretty much unknowable.

However, if he had access, unknown to anyone then why wouldn't he make an attempt to return and dispose of the non-body evidence at a minimum. To be this is an indicator that his access to the property was revoked either by his returning the keys or the locks being changed.

Thinking on it more, timings of his suicide suggest to me that he didn't return his keys and thought he had more time to hide things better, returned there sometime to find the locks changed... just imagine how you would feel, he'd have no idea why the locls were changed, had something been found? The paranoia and anxiety kick in and he cowards his way off the mortal coil.

Or maybe he had absolutely nothing to do with Leah’s disappearance and murder/maybe never even knew she was there?

Sure with his past convictions it looks bad but I am not convinced he killed Leah

Plus today in the papers he was crying down the phone to a friend that he can’t face jail again, this was before Leah was killed, hmmm

 

[tedtink]

That's an interesting view.
Can you expand on how the victim in this case would have had to act in order to prevent her own unnecessary or accidental murder?
And how in that case, would she have walked out of the situation alive, and what the murderer's expectation was with regard to his own safety and ongoing freedom as she left?

There's no so charge as 'accidental murder' in the UK.

 

[Kinners_D]

That's an interesting view.
Can you expand on how the victim in this case would have had to act in order to prevent her own unnecessary or accidental murder?
And how in that case, would she have walked out of the situation alive, and what the murderer's expectation was with regard to his own safety and ongoing freedom as she left?

To start - I'm not a criminal or a criminologist so this is all my opinion.

Firstly, he has been a sexual offender for some time and has been caught in some cases and in the balance of probability has not been caught in others.

This day he intends to sexually assault a young girl, she doesn't know his name, or real name, bearing in mind he is already on the run from another sexual assault so what does he have to lose.

Maybe he intends to lure her to the garage, succeeds, goes for what he wants but leah is able to defend herself more vigorously than he expects for such a small, young woman. A struggle ensues and Leah is killed accidentally.

To my mind it's possible, that he was close to finishing the work at this property, had gathered some cash in hand for the work and was ready to head further afield on the run. This would be his last opportunity to impose himself on a girl he's seen a few times and he takes it.

I don't expect that he had any thoughts on his ongoing freedom beyond the situation he was already in, he's already on the run so it's nothing different for him.

Criminals like this seem to have poor impule control and his factoring of risk vs reward is obviously totally skewed.

I hope that covers what you've asked, I get sidetracked easily.

Eta - how she walks away... she complies, doesn't fight. I'm not saying this is OK or remotely close to it, but in this scenario she complies and if that's his sole intent then she lives. But that's a huge thing to expect.

Further edit - because I missed a word and said I am a criminal (which is not the case)

 

[jackal67]

Did you have to negotiate or specify what constituted periodically?

Also the house seems to have been under the care of a management agent so it may have been part of their contract to do the check ins.

in which case the company has keys to the property too and did not report any concerns yet the people who went in Monday raised concerns immediately?

 

[Kinners_D]

Or maybe he had absolutely nothing to do with Leah’s disappearance and murder/maybe never even knew she was there?

Sure with his past convictions it looks bad but I am not convinced he killed Leah

Plus today in the papers he was crying down the phone to a friend that he can’t face jail again, this was before Leah was killed, hmmm

Always a possibility until there is forensic evidence at this point as there is no other way this is 100% without it.

My position is simply that the police have named him, noone else and clearly have ore information than they have released publicly. I would expect, given the nature of the case that they would have incredibly strong evidence before releasing his name.

 

[Petrocelli]

Having let a property before I trusted my management agent to handle all of this.

If the workmen ever lost or failed to return keys it was part of my contract with the agent that they agents would replace the locks at their cost as they engaged the wokmen. If the keys weren't returned to the management agency I would expect this to be the case.

It's feasible that he could have had an additional set of keys cut but that's pretty much unknowable.

However, if he had access, unknown to anyone then why wouldn't he make an attempt to return and dispose of the non-body evidence at a minimum. To me this is an indicator that his access to the property was revoked either by his returning the keys or the locks being changed.

Thinking on it more, timings of his suicide suggest to me that he didn't return his keys and thought he had more time to hide things better, returned there sometime to find the locks changed... just imagine how you would feel, he'd have no idea why the locls were changed, had something been found? The paranoia and anxiety kick in and he cowards his way off the mortal coil.

Given the local media reporting of the case at the time its possible he left it some time before returning to the house trying to stay away from the immediate focus of the police and public (I.e. Germany routes to work). He killed himself 6-8 weeks after she disappeared (please correct me if I'm wrong) and that is a reasonable "cooling down" period before going back to clear up.

Maybe he had to hand the keys back to get paid by the management company. He’d hidden the body so even if they inspected his work all looked ok.

 

[jackal67]

Having let a property before I trusted my management agent to handle all of this.

If the workmen ever lost or failed to return keys it was part of my contract with the agent that they agents would replace the locks at their cost as they engaged the wokmen. If the keys weren't returned to the management agency I would expect this to be the case.

It's feasible that he could have had an additional set of keys cut but that's pretty much unknowable.

However, if he had access, unknown to anyone then why wouldn't he make an attempt to return and dispose of the non-body evidence at a minimum. To me this is an indicator that his access to the property was revoked either by his returning the keys or the locks being changed.

Thinking on it more, timings of his suicide suggest to me that he didn't return his keys and thought he had more time to hide things better, returned there sometime to find the locks changed... just imagine how you would feel, he'd have no idea why the locls were changed, had something been found? The paranoia and anxiety kick in and he cowards his way off the mortal coil.

Given the local media reporting of the case at the time its possible he left it some time before returning to the house trying to stay away from the immediate focus of the police and public (I.e. Germany routes to work). He killed himself 6-8 weeks after she disappeared (please correct me if I'm wrong) and that is a reasonable "cooling down" period before going back to clear up.

good points

 

[Kinners_D]

in which case the company has keys to the property too and did not report any concerns get the people who went in Monday raised concerns immediately?

This is a common argument.

My response is simply that just because it's broken today doesn't mean it was yesterday.

No-one knows when the last time the management agents or anyone for that matter was there. Maybe there was nothing to see, it's possible that what alerted the agents on Monday had nothing to do with leah, water leak for example.

 

[Vera_dci]

Thinking on it more, timings of his suicide suggest to me that he didn't return his keys and thought he had more time to hide things better, returned there sometime to find the locks changed... just imagine how you would feel, he'd have no idea why the locls were changed, had something been found? The paranoia and anxiety kick in and he cowards his way off the mortal coil.

This is a very likely scenario.

Given the time frame of his suicide and Leahs disappearance - Wouldn't the locksmith notice any smells? Who contacted the locksmith and what alerted them to change the locks?

So many questions.

 

[Cherwell]

That's an interesting view.
Can you expand on how the victim in this case would have had to act in order to prevent her own unnecessary or accidental murder?
And how in that case, would she have walked out of the situation alive, and what the murderer's expectation was with regard to his own safety and ongoing freedom as she left?

Well, in that scenario he wouldn't be a murderer.