Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #14 *ARREST*

[motherofdaughters]

Perhaps going fishing is the excuse he used when out performing his other activities.

He was a busy boy, I’m confident in the interview from his Mum, she said he was also doing taxi work on the side to make ends meet.

So....

12 hour shifts
A wife who does shift work so I assume he does some childcare.
Flashing
Taxi- ing (?)
Going to the gym/martial arts.
Fishing

IF PR’s responsible, another unfortunate event is he found the time.

 

[motherofdaughters]

But he'd have to return with fish... at least some of the time, surely?

Angling clubs in lakes (at least around here) put them back. It’s about the catch not the kill. As such.

 

[yakus1964]

One thing that could explain why there were not more witness sightings of a body floating on top in the river is because the body could have been close to achieving "Neutral Buoyancy" which means it would be submerged and floating with the current but not necessarily all the way on top or all the way on bottom either.

Similar if anyone has ever seen a heavy water-logged log floating down the river. If you barely push down on the water-logged log it will easily go down about 2 or 3 feet deep before eventually making its way back to the top. The log is close to achieving perfect neutral buoyancy.

Most of us know that depending on the water temperature when a person first dies and is placed in water and so long as all the air is out of the lungs, then it will sink for a period of time (Negative Buoyancy) and could even move with the current along the bottom and not be seen by people on shore.

And as a body goes through decomposition and gasses increase in the body, it will have a tendency to rise up (Positive Buoyancy) and can float to the top if the temperature is warm enough to facilitate decomposition.

However there is also a period of time where a body will achieve (Neutral Bouyancy) where it can be floating within the depths and not be on bottom or on top and still be moving along with the current.

So there could have been a period of time where the body moved down the river at some X number of feet below the surface and nobody on the shore would have seen it moving down the river.

Below is a link to the 3 types of buoyancy.

Three Types of Buoyancy

Exactly what I was thinking.

How deep is the River Hull? That and the speed of the flow is important here. If it's deep and flows quick enough then there's no doubt that she would eventually end up in the Humber.

 

[Mommysleuth11]

...or IF he had an accomplice, perhaps PR was just the look-out (and what we saw on cctv). i can't QUITE name him as the main suspect just yet (in my mind), and i don't know why... i find it really odd that there are several instances where other people are possibly involved/"witnesses" (grey beard, balaclava, orange vest, someone else that used PR's car, just off the top of my head right now) and find these things way too coincidental. add that to the fact that he's been in a cell since the day she went missing, and i just cannot yet confirm (in my mind) that he is so smooth a criminal that she could have disappeared the way she did for 2+ months with no trail of evidence. i know this isn't popular opinion, so be easy on me. MOO.

Im not sure if you mean literally but for clarity, PR was arrested on day 6 (i believe), the following Wednesday evening of Libby going missing.

 

[kate2931]

Does anyone have any other reasons for feeling LS must have been put in the water closer to/directly in the Estuary except,
-St Andrews Quay SM rumour.
-A perception that the river is somehow not deep/straight/fast enough to carry a body?

As many of you know my thinking for a while has been the river Hull at ORPF, since before the sad discovery of Libbys body. I thought it was the only option left and ill give some of my reasons why.

Before and after PRs abduction arrest (at that point i thought it was a specific charge and indicated someone or something must have witnessed 'an abduction'), LE were only visibly searching the areas directly around ORPF and suspects home address, no other areas. By this point they must have had a wealth of CCTV to place PRs movements.
LE asked for cctv and dashcam footage for anyone who may have been 'in the area' between 2330-0300. This indicates to me that PR was seen leaving 'the area' and returning home prior to 3am.
Oak Road CCTV witnesses, the last one left at 0234(?) Tying in to the end of the 3am timeframe.
All of this in my mind means LE placed PR ONLY in that immediate area between 2330-0300 else surely they would need the public's help or at least awareness that he left the area in case they could provide anything useful. Rather than thinking, 'oh i was the other side of Hull'. They always say a small seemingly insignificant detail could be vital to solving the case.

The fact that they couldnt find her in or around the park and (i believe) they placed her not leaving the area. There was only one other way out, via the river. Im not sure why people disbelieve it is possible so much. We have lost a lot of people to the river Hull, granted usually nearer the city centre but i have seen people vanish only to wash up on the edge of the estuary a while later. MOO its not only possible but probable she entered the water at ORPF.

I was so against this idea in the beginning, funny how time & discussions change perspective. Our locals have said a few times it’s possible and given what little we know, I think it’s the most likely scenario we have. I posted a few threads back about how 7 weeks actually seems a viable amount of time to be stuck/unstuck in a dark muddy river before almost being lost to the North Sea. (Please forgive me Libby, for talking in these terms )

I know a poster mentioned a few days ago about the lack of river searches from Oak road in the beginning & even mentioned the intensive river searches for little April. I echoed the same frustration in the beginning, especially if LE were confident Libby had never left the park. I too compared Libby’s case to that of a child’s and expressed dismay that as Libby was now a young adult maybe that was the reason the same level of scrutiny to the river wasn’t applied.
On the other side, maybe my aforementioned poor visibility in the river meant LE thought it nearly pointless in searching...
Very unlucky Libby wasn’t spotted in the river Hull but a miracle she was recovered before being lost to the sea
just thoughts tonight x

 

[Vermont24]

That's not actually correct, as Mrs Squire has been widely quoted.
Here's the BBC for starters.
Libby mum 'lost most precious thing'

I hadn't seen that - probably due to my political leanings.

 

[Mommysleuth11]

Exactly what I was thinking.

How deep is the River Hull? That and the speed of the flow is important here. If it's deep and flows quick enough then there's no doubt that she would eventually end up in the Humber.

Im not sure on the total depth but the tide can vary by 6/7 metres if that helps give some idea.

 

[Skigh]

would never, ever settle for an unmarked car parked in a cul de sac. It just seems really unlikely that would attract any custom.[/QUOTE]

You talk about "family sources" but unless I've missed something his mother's words about taxi driving seem to be a response to a suggestion put by
a reporter - nothing more.
And she seems to have said that as far as she knew he didn't do taxi work.
I'm just saying this whole idea seems to have
originated with the reporters, not the family. IMBW of course.

I can not remember the exact wording but his mother said that family sources had told her he had been working as a taxi driver to earn extra money.

 

[yakus1964]

As well as buoyancy and variables along those lines, I think the reason that nobody saw her is simply because nobody saw her. If that sounds obtuse, I had a crack at explaining what I mean with an amateurish Schrodinger analogy yesterday. The river is extremely brown, and if nobody was around to see, then nobody saw.

We don't know what she was wearing when she entered the water, if anything at all, but you're right. Spotting a dark-clothed body likely floating face down in the water would be very difficult. Many people may have gone over bridges and have been only feet away from her for sure, but hardly anyone actually looks into the river when they're trying to get somewhere. It would have been lucky if she was spotted in the river.

Edit: There's even a small chance she WAS spotted in the River Hull but she did not appear body-like, so she was passed off as being a log or some sort of debris; not too surprising to see in a dirty river like the Hull.

 

[Steleheart]

That's not actually correct, as Mrs Squire has been widely quoted.
Here's the BBC for starters.
Libby mum 'lost most precious thing'

"The "worst point" was having to tell her daughter's boyfriend Connor: "I am so sorry the girl you love the most in the world has gone".

We know of him from Mum, but unless he comes out publicly he's not open for discussion.

 

[Deleted member 238128]

I believe it would have been edited by police

But then, wouldn’t that mean that police gave an edited copy back to the electrical company, who then went to ITV with it? That sounds really odd to me. If I’m reading the MSM reports correctly, eg. @Winterbells links, then Core Electrical took their CCTV to ITV after giving it to police, because they were fuming that police hadn’t released it. So, I’d imagine they gave them a copy that they made, and then editing has happened at some point before we seen it, either to shorten it for air time or for reasons important to the case

 

[motherofdaughters]

See the river is described as fast-flowing.
Someone (i dont remember who) replied to a question about the river with, "Its shallow and slow flowing" I did think, on comparison to what, The Humber? I wouldnt personally describe it as shallow or slow flowing overall. I suppose its partly down to perception.

It’s tidal so at times it will be fast flowing or slow and on occasion it’ll seem calm.
I was in Boston today, (no too far south) and noted the river that flows through town is similar to the Hull in that it’s tidal, so ranges from being high to practically nothing there. (I already knew this but particularly noted it today)
Today it was high or bpossibly on the turn but looked eerily still. I did notice that the undercurrent looked pretty fierce though even though the surface was still.
What I’m trying to say is...
There are so many variables for if LS was put in the river at any point along it. Like that whole night, just a sad series of events.

 

[Coach]

would never, ever settle for an unmarked car parked in a cul de sac. It just seems really unlikely that would attract any custom.

I can not remember the exact wording but his mother said that family sources had told her he had been working as a taxi driver to earn extra money.[/QUOTE]

I think this is the link for the story that mentioned the family sources saying he could have been working as a taxi driver Mum of butcher held by Libby Squire cops says he's innocent & 'scared of blood'

 

[Skigh]

I hadn't seen that - probably due to my political leanings.

That is a cryptic comment !!! Surely you are not implying the BBC is biased!!

 

[Cherwell]

"The "worst point" was having to tell her daughter's boyfriend Connor: "I am so sorry the girl you love the most in the world has gone".

We know of him from Mum, but unless he comes out publicly he's not open for discussion.

The point is that that his existence can be acknowledged. It just tells us a little more about Libby's situation and makes it a lot less likely that she would be attracted to a stranger.

 

[Hatfield]

Exactly what I was thinking.

How deep is the River Hull? That and the speed of the flow is important here. If it's deep and flows quick enough then there's no doubt that she would eventually end up in the Humber.

Like others have mentioned there are so many variables because the water depth fluctuates with the tide. And I think there are some possible blockage areas like the Hull Barrier at Victoria Pier, so I can see why many think he may have dumped the body directly in the Humber too.

Below is a link that has a little more information on the waters and average depths around there.

River Hull at Hull Barrier Victoria Pier: River level and flood alerts

Google Maps

 

[Deleted member 238128]

Not sure what time balaclava man was seen near Libby’s home, article doesn’t mention when exactly, I certainly wouldn’t rule out a connection between between him & PR and recent goings on in the area, jmo.

Does anyone have a link to this article?

 

[Happygirlie2003]

Exactly what I was thinking.

How deep is the River Hull? That and the speed of the flow is important here. If it's deep and flows quick enough then there's no doubt that she would eventually end up in the Humber.

I also think from the photos I’ve seen that the river looks mainly amidst industrial areas so if people are working away would they even pay attention to what’s in the river?

 

[Cherwell]

But then, wouldn’t that mean that police gave an edited copy back to the electrical company, who then went to ITV with it? That sounds really odd to me. If I’m reading the MSM reports correctly, eg. @Winterbells links, then Core Electrical took their CCTV to ITV after giving it to police, because they were fuming that police hadn’t released it. So, I’d imagine they gave them a copy that they made, and then editing has happened at some point before we seen it, either to shorten it for air time or for reasons important to the case

I would guess it went like this.
Company gives footage to police.
After a while they give a copy to ITV.
ITV checks with police if it's OK to broadcast it.
Police make an edited version and give ITV the go-ahead to show that.

 

[Crazy Mama]

...or IF he had an accomplice, perhaps PR was just the look-out (and what we saw on cctv). i can't QUITE name him as the main suspect just yet (in my mind), and i don't know why... i find it really odd that there are several instances where other people are possibly involved/"witnesses" (grey beard, balaclava, orange vest, someone else that used PR's car, just off the top of my head right now) and find these things way too coincidental. add that to the fact that he's been in a cell since the day she went missing, and i just cannot yet confirm (in my mind) that he is so smooth a criminal that she could have disappeared the way she did for 2+ months with no trail of evidence. i know this isn't popular opinion, so be easy on me. MOO.

Swedeheart, I am about the same. I know that he was connected to her that night by some means, my mind is wondering about that Megane that pulled out before him at spidergate. He’s guilty of something and I’m sure that they have good evidence but they are looking for the absolute clincher before they charge anyone. So long to wait for a charge. Can’t imagine him ruining his British dream and their family etc, but that baby face of his could be hiding stuff.