Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #14 *ARREST*

[Hatfield]

See the river is described as fast-flowing.
Someone (i dont remember who) replied to a question about the river with, "Its shallow and slow flowing" I did think, on comparison to what, The Humber? I wouldnt personally describe it as shallow or slow flowing overall. I suppose its partly down to perception.

One thing that could explain why there were not more witness sightings of a body floating on top in the river is because the body could have been close to achieving "Neutral Buoyancy" which means it would be submerged and floating with the current but not necessarily all the way on top or all the way on bottom either.

Similar if anyone has ever seen a heavy water-logged log floating down the river. If you barely push down on the water-logged log it will easily go down about 2 or 3 feet deep before eventually making its way back to the top. The log is close to achieving perfect neutral buoyancy.

Most of us know that depending on the water temperature when a person first dies and is placed in water and so long as all the air is out of the lungs, then it will sink for a period of time (Negative Buoyancy) and could even move with the current along the bottom and not be seen by people on shore.

And as a body goes through decomposition and gasses increase in the body, it will have a tendency to rise up (Positive Buoyancy) and can float to the top if the temperature is warm enough to facilitate decomposition.

However there is also a period of time where a body will achieve (Neutral Bouyancy) where it can be floating within the depths and not be on bottom or on top and still be moving along with the current.

So there could have been a period of time where the body moved down the river at some X number of feet below the surface and nobody on the shore would have seen it moving down the river.

Below is a link to the 3 types of buoyancy.

Three Types of Buoyancy

 

[Mommysleuth11]

One thing that could explain why there were not more witness sightings of a body floating on top in the river is because the body could have been close to achieving "Neutral Boyancy" which means it would be submerged and floating with the current but not necessarily all the way on top or all the way on bottom either.

Similar if anyone has ever seen a heavy water-logged log floating down the river. If you barely push down on the water-logged log it will easily go down about 2 or 3 feet deep before eventually making its way back to the top. The log is close to achieving perfect neutral buoyancy.

Most of us know that depending on the water temperature when a person first dies and is placed in water and so long as all the air is out of the lungs, then it will sink for a period of time (Negative Buoyancy) and could even move with the current along the bottom and not be seen by people on shore.

And as a body goes through decomposition and gasses increase in the body, it will have a tendency to rise up (Positive Buoyancy) and can float to the top if the temperature is warm enough to facilitate decomposition.

However there is also a period of time where a body will achieve ("Neutral Bouyancy") where it can be floating within the depths and not be on bottom or on top and still be moving along with the current.

So there could have been a period of time where the body moved down the river at some X number of feet below the surface and nobody on the shore would have seen it moving down the river.

Below is a link to the 3 types of buoyancy.

Three Types of Buoyancy

That is so interesting, thank you for sharing your wisdom. I dont know anything about the physics of bodies in water thankfully. Just on a personal level its not unusual for a person lost in the River Hull to turn up along the Humber, albeit closer to the mouth of the Hull.

 

[Newthoughts]

That makes it sound like a fact. As far as I'm aware, there's been no suggestion that he ever worked as a taxi driver EXCEPT for the tabloid reporter asking his mother IF he ever did taxi work. It is probably only a theory. None of the quoted neighbours mentioned it, did they?

Not that I know of, the Sun claimed family sources suggested it. I mentioned came from a tabloid like the Daily Fail. Neither paper is renowned for accuracy.

I mentioned it only as part of the discussion on what he might have told his wife when he was out flashing. Fishing was mentioned by some as that had cropped up from mum in MSM, taxiing mentioned by MSM or just nicking PlayStations / laptops without the sex toys detail. The other option is he didn't feel the need to tell his wife anything.

 

[Vermont24]

Regards the river at oak rd my thoughts are

The area to travel is almost all industrial...lots of car parks , factories etc so much less chance of being seen than residential imo

The "muddy" look to the water may hinder visibility

It did take 7 weeks to get to estuary so not exactly a short time

If entering at ORPF at high tide could a person travel far enough to be outside the immediate search area covered the following day

Could it just be a case of certain conditions that allowed it to happen .. but with different conditions would not ?

I really don't like thinking about this particular part of events, but I can understand the debate and it's undoubtedly key to working out what actually happened. I'll try to be brief here, and then I'm not touching it again.

The stretch of the river after the park is indeed largely industrial until it reaches the city centre. Lots of business premises open directly onto the river between Clough Road and Wincolmlee, but the area is a ghost town over the weekend. There's also a lot of dereliction and disuse. There isn't much in the way of public access to the riverside. Check streetview and you'll get a feel for it.

As well as buoyancy and variables along those lines, I think the reason that nobody saw her is simply because nobody saw her. If that sounds obtuse, I had a crack at explaining what I mean with an amateurish Schrodinger analogy yesterday. The river is extremely brown, and if nobody was around to see, then nobody saw.

In all likelihood it didn't take 7 weeks to reach the estuary. Travel was probably further and faster than most of us are reckoning. Once in the Humber, it's good fortune she was found.

 

[Lyndaloo]

I think they already had CCTV of LS being taken to ORPF and not coming away again, in which case they would have already identified the car and driver. Maybe they wanted to wait until PR was in custody before making it public - as he would see it too?

Yes exactly...I believe polce agreed with itv to wait until after his arrest before showing the edited version.

 

[Mommysleuth11]

The other option is he didn't feel the need to tell his wife anything.

Again i have considered this. In our culture its the norn to have a very open relationship with your spouse and be aware of each others movements but that isnt always so for each culture. I had a friend who married a non-english man, he did his own thing and she did hers. They wouldnt always even necessarily tell each other what time they would be home. It was quite normal for them and i have an inkling he would have found it a lack of trust had she questioned where he was, what he was doing and with whom. It was just how it was.

 

[Skigh]

The family sources comments re him being a taxi driver was in most on line papers.
the family source ,in my opinion,was most likely his wife.
whether he did earn extra money as a taxi driver or whether that was his excuse to be out at night is debatable.
his burglaries provided him some money to show as fares collected with perhaps enough left over to buy a fish or two.

 

[PaddyOreally?]

"You can get a whole rainbow trout at Morrisons for a good price" = one of my favourite quotes from this thread.

(Not taking the mick @PaddyOreally? - it just made me smile!)

I'm glad it did! But seriously though, go check them out there's deals to be had in market st.

 

[Lyndaloo]

Do you know whether this was around the time Libby returned home?
just supposing it is a possibility it could have been PR up to his old tricks and planning to break in to a near by house, he might have left his burglary tools hidden around the corner whist he sussed out a suitable place.could he have seen Libby return and start going down the road,that is when he entered her address in in his satnav.
He then decided to drive and see where she went.

Not sure what time balaclava man was seen near Libby’s home, article doesn’t mention when exactly, I certainly wouldn’t rule out a connection between between him & PR and recent goings on in the area, jmo.

 

[Vermont24]

Can a mod confirm where we stand on mentioning the bf, please?

He's been kept out of it for a reason, and hasn't once been mentioned by MSM. Most of us know about his existence via SM and the word of mouth that followed.

@Steleheart ?

 

[Winterbells]

She might be ok with the odd stolen laptop / Playstation, plenty of petty thieves have family that don't mind them making a bit of extra cash. It's the knickers and sex toys I'd struggle to see her turning a blind eye to.

I didn't mean he'd tell her they were 'pre-loved', but that he'd just wrap them up as pressies.
Far-fetched, I know.

 

[Cherwell]

The only other thing that leads me towards him doing taxi work would be the place he parked ...an ideal spot to catch freezing cold passengers waiting for a bus

That does nothing for me. People wanting a taxi either phone for one or go to a cab rank. I would never, ever settle for an unmarked car parked in a cul de sac. It just seems really unlikely that would attract any custom.

 

[Crazy Mama]

Lol, I hadn't thought of that - just buy one from Morrisons.

Thinking about his 'hobbies'... I guess flashing doesn't take that long ('just popping out for a bag of crisps - want anything?') and burglary is all about speed, so he may not need to have an alibi for where he's been. As for the spoils of his enterprises, he might just tell his wife his pal at work gave him the Playsation controller, speaker, phone or whatever and ... ew.... it's possible he 'recycles' the (cough) other items as special presents for them to play with together. If guilty, the man has no morals whatsoever, so nothing would surprise me.

I’m thinking that maybe his wife knew that he was a thief and perhaps he managed to steal more than sex toys. Maybe he handed items of value to his wife but stashed the toys. This might mean that she covered for him that night thinking that he was just looking for earning opportunities, either freelance taxiing or stealing.
One other thing, I’ve never been convinced that he was rolling a smoke that night (spidergate). Could he have been preparing something to threaten her with, drug her with or entice her with?

 

[Steleheart]

Can a mod confirm where we stand on mentioning the bf, please?

He's been kept out of it for a reason, and hasn't once been mentioned by MSM. Most of us know about his existence via SM and the word of mouth that followed.

@Steleheart ?

We can't use Social Media of family or friends. Names, info or anything. So he cannot be discussed. He's a victim too and I certainly understand his privacy needs and staying out of the media, so until he shows up in MSM speaking publicly he's out of the discussion.
It's enough that we know he exists but we must leave it out for now.

The Social Media link is in my sig BTW.

.

 

[Vermont24]

We can't use Social Media of family or friends. Names, info or anything. So he cannot be discussed. He's a victim too and I certainly understand his privacy needs and staying out of the media, so until he shows up in MSM speaking publicly he's out of the discussion.
It's enough that we know he exists but we must leave it out for now.

The Social Media link is in my sig BTW.

.

Thanks. I'm glad that's the case.

 

[JosieJo]

That does nothing for me. People wanting a taxi either phone for one or go to a cab rank. I would never, ever settle for an unmarked car parked in a cul de sac. It just seems really unlikely that would attract any custom.

I agree in that I wouldn't either ...but there must be people who do as unlicensed taxis definitely operate
They are not allowed around taxi ranks so likely places used are usually away from taxi areas but where you might persuade a fare

You might get a group of students on a budget

 

[Cherwell]

The family sources comments re him being a taxi driver was in most on line papers.
the family source ,in my opinion,was most likely his wife.
whether he did earn extra money as a taxi driver or whether that was his excuse to be out at night is debatable.
his burglaries provided him some money to show as fares collected with perhaps enough left over to buy a fish or two.

You talk about "family sources" but unless I've missed something his mother's words about taxi driving seem to be a response to a suggestion put by a reporter - nothing more.
And she seems to have said that as far as she knew he didn't do taxi work.
I'm just saying this whole idea seems to have originated with the reporters, not the family. IMBW of course.

 

[Steleheart]

We need to end any discussion of consensual sex. Sure he could use it as a defense but there is no support for that at this time. He hasn't even been charged. So the theory, either way has no support for it.
Additionally there is no such thing as consent with an intoxicated person!
Just the discussion of it is insensitive to the victim's family and friends who are also victims in this tragic crime.
The posts will be removed.

VICTIM FRIENDLY is here.

 

[swedeheart]

I’m thinking that maybe his wife knew that he was a thief and perhaps he managed to steal more than sex toys. Maybe he handed items of value to his wife but stashed the toys. This might mean that she covered for him that night thinking that he was just looking for earning opportunities, either freelance taxiing or stealing.
One other thing, I’ve never been convinced that he was rolling a smoke that night (spidergate). Could he have been preparing something to threaten her with, drug her with or entice her with?

...or IF he had an accomplice, perhaps PR was just the look-out (and what we saw on cctv). i can't QUITE name him as the main suspect just yet (in my mind), and i don't know why... i find it really odd that there are several instances where other people are possibly involved/"witnesses" (grey beard, balaclava, orange vest, someone else that used PR's car, just off the top of my head right now) and find these things way too coincidental. add that to the fact that he's been in a cell since the day she went missing, and i just cannot yet confirm (in my mind) that he is so smooth a criminal that she could have disappeared the way she did for 2+ months with no trail of evidence. i know this isn't popular opinion, so be easy on me. MOO.

 

[Cherwell]

Can a mod confirm where we stand on mentioning the bf, please?
He's been kept out of it for a reason, and hasn't once been mentioned by MSM. Most of us know about his existence via SM and the word of mouth that followed.

@Steleheart ?

That's not actually correct, as Mrs Squire has been widely quoted.
Here's the BBC for starters.
Libby mum 'lost most precious thing'