Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #14 *ARREST*

[Lyndaloo]

Very good point. Is it just me or is there a jump here from stealing sexy toys to murder.... wouldn’t you expect him to have raped someone first and then escalated his next crime to murder. Just seems a jump from zero physical contact in his previous crimes to a full on murder. I’d have thought that he would have built up to it a bit more . That said , maybe more girls have come forward and we don’t know ....

Reading this I couldn’t help but think back to reading this article Student 'forced to keep sleeping in bed where she was raped'

 

[grumpiness]

Just do a search for GPS tracker and there should be quite a few results. You'd just have to make sure it could fit in the beach ball and be in a watertight bag. Slight modification to the beach ball may be required! Maybe we could all chip in! I love experiments!

Are you all serious? I am catching up so maybe someone might have mentioned this but a beach ball is a totally different ball game to a dead body

 

[Loobyloo]

Just caught up with the day's posts...
A common theme seems to be problems with useful information disappearing from sites that have been previously linked to.
One solution might be to use screenshots rather than just links, especially in the early stages of a case, when stuff is likely to be removed later to avoid prejudicing a trial.
Another is to archive pages ourselves & post the archive link ( has the added advantage of avoiding driving traffic to the less pleasant tabloids). I use
http://archive.fo
which has a button you can add to your toolbar for instant use.
I'm guessing that's an acceptable thing to do under Websleuths rules?

 

[Loobyloo]

The worrying numbers of flashers and peeping toms caught in Hull

Good example of why it's not always wise to trust headlines. The article gives hardly any examples of offenders being *caught* - it actually refers to 'The number of flashers and peeping toms reported to police in Hull' (my bold).

Wonder how many of the incidents were PR, & what kind of reduction the statistics will show now that he's temporarily off the streets?

 

[Loobyloo]

Are you all serious? I am catching up so maybe someone might have mentioned this but a beach ball is a totally different ball game to a dead body

Yes, a couple of people have pointed that out, but I think the intention was to get a sense of likely speed/timings. I think at one point there was an invitation for volunteers to be tagged and thrown into the water...

 

[grumpiness]

Yeah it’s hard to know what he did or said but he convinced her to get in his car to go somewhere.
How and where , are the 2 questions....

I am still inclined to think she knew him on some level and he is not a complete stranger to her. You have to wonder why she went with him and not GB, if she went willingly of course .

I can only speak for myself but if it were me I would rather go with someone I recognised even if I didn't know them , for example another parent I recognised from the school run or someone I know lives locally even if i dont speak to them rather than a complete stranger.

 

[grumpiness]

Cherwell ... when you say ‘exiled’ ... self imposed? Disappeared? Or banned from posting here?

I was fascinated by Nicks incredible insight. He knew every last detail of that model and put me in no doubt that the car in spider cam was an exact match for PRs. Not just ‘an astra’ but the pack on it, the specialist alloys, he even seemed to understand the colour options and alarm light sequence. I was delighted to hear he’d offered his services to LE as that sort of knowledge is surely invaluable.

EDIT: spelling

He had offered to help LE , maybe they took him up on it so he can't be here

 

[yoyo1]

Speaking for myself, I'm under no illusion that I can help in any way. Frankly, I am just intrigued by a mystery, and interested in how the police go about solving a case and proving a suspect's guilt. I have absolutely no pretensions to be of any help whatsoever.

I have rapidly come to the same conclusion about myself also. I didnt think PR would have taken Libby deep into the park it being so cold that night and therefore didnt think it likely she ended up in the river Hull. It now seems i was completely wrong. His whole mental journey from the time he was scavenging around howarth looking for kicks till the end interests me , it just seems like such a self destructive thing to do , a guy with a wife , a job and 2 kids , to willingly go down such an insane path. It just makes it all so impossible to understand and so hard to decifer.
My feeling is that he has a mental disorder and if hopefully found guilty will end up in a high security mental hospital.

 

[paddy40]

I am still inclined to think she knew him on some level and he is not a complete stranger to her. You have to wonder why she went with him and not GB, if she went willingly of course .

I can only speak for myself but if it were me I would rather go with someone I recognised even if I didn't know them , for example another parent I recognised from the school run or someone I know lives locally even if i dont speak to them rather than a complete stranger.

It’s also strange that he didn’t try and just flash her or sexually assault her in the car instead of driving off with her . He’s jumped from flasher to murderer quite quickly there...

 

[Joolz1975]

Yes, a couple of people have pointed that out, but I think the intention was to get a sense of likely speed/timings. I think at one point there was an invitation for volunteers to be tagged and thrown into the water...

That was me. I volunteered my husband.

 

[Plod]

I don't think they can use it at all, can they? I was discussing the McCann case with someone earlier and if it can't talk, it can't give evidence, as such?

But this is an actual Humberside police dog brought in at beginning of case. I haven’t fully followed the other case, not sure how soon it was brought in? But don’t worry I don’t want to start a huge discussion here about the other case! I think that the dog’s reaction is recorded by his handler and can be used in court - otherwise why have them?

 

[Joolz1975]

I’m sure I can remember reading that the electrical firm handed Haworth cctv to police & media on the Saturday or Sunday and were annoyed that it took so long to get it out to the public?

Annoys me they did this.

I feel like it forced LE hand a bit in the arrest of PR, they maybe could have had him under surveillance longer and anyone else potentially involved.

They should have let LE do their job not sell it to ITV.

It wasn't even a broadcast for help, it was a headline maker nothing more.

As much as it's been interesting to discuss at times I don't think that footage needed to be public knowledge.

 

[PaddyOreally?]

Are you all serious? I am catching up so maybe someone might have mentioned this but a beach ball is a totally different ball game to a dead body

I know but you can't get a dead body on Amazon.

 

[Newthoughts]

Just had a thought, and I think it was mentioned earlier, but would LS have been feeling the effects of hypothermia as well as being too drunk at the time?

I would say so. It was -5 and she was dressed for a night in a club. Everything about that night is heartbreaking

 

[bos]

There were definitely reports of the questionnaire of seven questions relating to whether anyone else drove the car and whether anyone else lived there reported in MSM at the time. I *think* someone posted the questionnaire on HDM FB site at the time.

Could one of the 4 figures on Oak Road CCTV be suspected of bringing PR a spare set of keys after he’d dropped them in the park? Could such a person be in possession of a spare set or have ready access if they lived at 24 Raglan Street hence removal of references to the questions?

 

[Newthoughts]

Just caught up with the thread.

A couple of things which came to mind whilst catching up:

1. If PR had seen the GB interaction, if he were cunning and his end game was to get Libby in the car, he might have said something like “I saw that old man with you. Did he try to hurt you? Are you ok? He looked like a bad man. It’s not safe for you to be out here in the cold. What if he comes back?” Might, just might, that disarm someone? You only need basic English to say that too. If she was hesitant, maybe he showed her some photos on his phone of him with his wife and kids to further disarm her. “Look you can trust me, I am a family man. I will help you.”

If LS originally said no, maybe he said something like “ok, I’ll go to my car and smoke a cigarette, if you change your mind it’s just around the corner two cars up”. Could be one interpretation of him looking back towards the bench wondering if she would take him up on his offer. If he wasn’t pushy the first time, that could have disarmed LS further so that when he went back the last time, it didn’t take long for his plan to work.

2. We know the astra’s arrival on Haworth and the first approx 10 mins of it being there is missing from spidercam. And we thought either LE had asked ITV to edit it out or nothing was happening hence no need to release it. I’m leaning towards the “edit out” option, as seeing what the driver did in that first 10 mins, if he was outside the car etc IS pertinent. Anyone think there’s a chance PR (if it’s him) arrived and parked quickly facing Haworth in his haste to go and see the lay of the land/talk to LS before he lost his shot? He had a look, thought he had a bit of time and nipped back to the car and turned it around so it faced the other way. Then he went and spoke to her again. If released, surely such footage would look pretty damning in the public’s eyes like he was planning ahead to make a quick getaway. Realize this may be a stretch and that it would mean he left the car and returned to it three times, but it did occur to me so I thought I’d see what you thought.

I'm also leaning towards the carefully edited option rather than nothing happening. They've shown him unlocking his car. Rolling a *advertiser censored* etc. It would only be a few seconds more to show car arrives at... Driver leaves car and goes.. It starts with him at the rear of the car looking towards the bench. Had he just walked to there from his car or was he walking back.

 

[Deleted member 238128]

Reading this I couldn’t help but think back to reading this article Student 'forced to keep sleeping in bed where she was raped'

Yes I thought of this one too Lyndaloo, and the original post was removed recently from the page I originally saw it on.

 

[Newthoughts]

Annoys me they did this.

I feel like it forced LE hand a bit in the arrest of PR, they maybe could have had him under surveillance longer and anyone else potentially involved.

They should have let LE do their job not sell it to ITV.

It wasn't even a broadcast for help, it was a headline maker nothing more.

As much as it's been interesting to discuss at times I don't think that footage needed to be public knowledge.

Ah the Sun - sensational headlines at any cost no matter what the damage to investigations, victims or other human beings.

At that point nobody knew if Libby was still alive or not.

I didn't think it was possible to dislike Murdoch any more than I did until I saw the Dowlers give evidence at Leveson.

Just lucky the firm handed it to ITV who edited it enough to protect a trial.

 

[Newthoughts]

I am still inclined to think she knew him on some level and he is not a complete stranger to her. You have to wonder why she went with him and not GB, if she went willingly of course .

I can only speak for myself but if it were me I would rather go with someone I recognised even if I didn't know them , for example another parent I recognised from the school run or someone I know lives locally even if i dont speak to them rather than a complete stranger.

I can't see that myself. They'd inhabit completely different worlds. A student is unlikely to register a family unless they're immediate neighbours. A 'normal' family unlikely to register a student. They weren't neighbours. He wasn't memorable.

@Joelle88 said he was softly spoken and had a gentle voice. His wedding photos show a harmless looking bloke. He was her age. Him being trustworthy is probably a mistake we'd all make at 21. When we think monsters look like monsters

 

[Miss_French]

View attachment 176539
Or maybe she saw the guy in the balaclava hanging round her street and that spooked her so decided she would rather wait outdoors than go into her house alone?

Except she walked away from home in the presence of 3 other people....