UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #21

[Tortoise]

Thanks @Mommysleuth11 I see. I'm wondering if there's a camera on Beresford Avenue. It's odd to me that he refers to there being a 'camera there' (I think that's what he said?) or just 'I know there's a camera' when he talks about his 3rd visit to ORPF if he's referring to the cameras on Beverley Road.

He might have deduced they caught him by camera by the time he was interviewed.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I think she may have been so drunk she might not have even known where she really was and it’s so dark there at night. I’d say there was a lot of confusion alright.

There was snow on the ground which would make it much lighter, and, as reported by our local members, the lights from the factories across the river were reflected in the water so it wouldn’t have been pitch black.

If she’d never been there before and was unaware of the river, that would lend credence to her stumbling in in terror. It would be really useful to know how well she knew the area.

 

[HopeForGoodNews]

I really don't know anything about rivers, either, but I just feel that because this one isn't out in the middle of the countryside, where it can be all wild and natural, but runs right through a huge city, it has to be rendered as 'safe' as possible, so it must have all sorts of barriers and things to stop people just nodding off on the side and ending up floating away into the North sea.

Apologies this has probably been discussed as I'm still catching up.

Sadly there have been many people fallen into this river as in most places there are no barriers and you can literally walk off the edge of the path. I dont know what the area is like at Oak Road but if near a reedy area whould she have been swept away so easily and quickly?

Not sure if the attached photos are of interest to anyone but they are of the river Hull (closer to where it meets the River Humber) at tide and low tide. Theres a massive difference which is why many of us locals were surprised Libby was not spotted sooner

 

[havntgotaclue]

There's a bit of info:


UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 *ARREST* #18

A bit off topic but libby told her friend something big was going to happen to her...i wonder what she meant by that

 

[Alyce]

I’m not sure how skimpy the reporting has been, whilst it hasn’t been packed full of details, it’s been consistently reported throughout the case, there hasn’t been a missing morning or afternoon where no reporting happened. The case was allocated four weeks- the prosecution case was over and done with in 4 days- this is either due to some concrete evidence and confidence in the evidence produced, or no more evidence available to discuss. I think a remote tour reconstruction would have been reported- even in only this basic form with no more details.

Reading back thru earlier threads, the prosecution took almost 8 days

Jury selection and prosecution opening on January 11

Prosecution case January 12, 13, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22

 

[Kaykedi]

Apologies this has probably been discussed as I'm still catching up.

Sadly there have been many people fallen into this river as in most places there are no barriers and you can literally walk off the edge of the path. I dont know what the area is like at Oak Road but if near a reedy area whould she have been swept away so easily and quickly?

Not sure if the attached photos are of interest to anyone but they are of the river Hull (closer to where it meets the River Humber) at tide and low tide. Theres a massive difference which is why many of us locals were surprised Libby was not spotted sooner

Thank you for these photos, they've given me real insight into what it's like near the river

 

[Newthoughts]

I’d be really interested to know whether Libby was familiar with the playing fields. Had she been before, chilled out with her mates by the river, did she know the river was there?

Her mum said she was scared of water - especially moving water iirc - so I can’t imagine she’d have knowingly gone in that direction if she knew the river was right in front of her.

I couldn't say for definite but I don't know any students that did use it amongst my child's friends and I can see no reason why they would necessarily choose to go there

Hull uni has its own grounds and sports facilities. It's a nice spot. You can see the sea from the top floor of the library. Remember PR said he was going to run in the uni grounds in his first fantasy interview.

If you travel a little further to the Humber bridge you have more a pretty country park. Then there Spurn Head is within reach if anyone had a car which her friend did. That is lovely. And it's not that far to the seaside

My child was there for 4 years, her friend lived in Libby's road and they didn't even know it was there till this happened

 

[mrazda71]

I think him pulling her is a possibility..its difficult to say as when she is seen on her own she is also zigzagging...he could be ushering her along with him

I and others can see her outstretched arm clinging on to the illuminated bus shelter and his outstretched arm holding onto her other arm pulling (he looks to crouch a little to add weight to the pull) then her being yanked off the shelter.

I'm not sure I'd consider that 'ushering' IMO

 

[muguetdesbois]

A tour of the River Hull, starting in the River Humber at the city centre, and going up the River Hull. Oak Road riverbank buildings and Mauri Yeast at about 2:24.

 

[Skigh]

A bit off topic but libby told her friend something big was going to happen to her...i wonder what she meant by that

Perhaps she was going to get engaged to her boyfriend.

Maybe she was so settled and happy she was excited about all the opportunities open to her.

Some sixth sense intuition..??

 

[elliefant]

A tour of the River Hull, starting in the River Humber at the city centre, and going up the River Hull. Oak Road riverbank buildings and Mauri Yeast at about 2:24.

Thank you very much, I found this really helpful. The river looks very difficult to get out of in the relevant place

 

[HopeForGoodNews]

Does the third visit later that night not allay any issues around timings that people may have?

I'm still of the opinion that the 7.5 minutes included the rape and murder of Libby and he just left her and disposed of her body in the river on the 3rd visit. The bits I dont know is whether he knew he'd left her dead or just ran off and hoped she would get up and walk home. I suspect his 3rd visit was to check and when he found her still there wanted to get rid of the evidence

 

[Corneileus]

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As for hallucinating that can happen from alcohol and it would be interesting to know how drunk Libby was just from the point of view of wondering how she ended up in such a terrible state. Im not saying or suggesting anything, just genuine questions, its not a straight forward case. The term Blacking out means where you are still active, doing things but not in control, it does not mean to faint or just simply fall down. I hope I have explained my post a little better.

 

[Corneileus]

I'm still of the opinion that the 7.5 minutes included the rape and murder of Libby and he just left her and disposed of her body in the river on the 3rd visit. The bits I dont know is whether he knew he'd left her dead or just ran off and hoped she would get up and walk home. I suspect his 3rd visit was to check and when he found her still there wanted to get rid of the evidence

Yes I think if he put her in the river it was on the third visit.

 

[Newthoughts]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed> no drugs were found in her system nor did the expert toxicology reports mention any. They'd have looked both for evidence of any substance and evidence of it's breakdown products in her liver. As long as she was there to test they'd have found something.

And should the toxicologists know of any drugs with a short enough life to disappear completely without physically being broken down surely they'd have mentioned them? It's our bodies that break down drugs and alcohol in our systems. Once we're dead that stops.

All they found was alcohol - she was 2 1/2 times over the legal drink drive limit.

Her friends also said she was anti drug and didn't take them. They have no reason to lie because they wanted her found quickly.

Only PR mentions drugs and he is certainly not an honest witness.

The critical care professor estimated her body temperature would have dropped to about 35 IIRC but I will check, making it difficult to make decisions, walk, fight and run away. He didn't mention hallucinations at all. He said she would be very vulnerable to attackers.

Also there was nothing to really to suggest she'd black out - without help of course

And remember she doesn't just have to fall in. She has to go in far enough to not get caught on banks as it twists. The police started searching there very early on.

A much earlier post had a really good video of the river where they were searching. IMO it would be difficult to disappear at the point. She has to travel past lots of bends and banks and then closer to the time centre where the river is tidal she has to remain unseen. In the town centre - yes it would be easier but not there IMOO

 

[Ruthbullock]

Reading back thru earlier threads, the prosecution took almost 8 days

Jury selection and prosecution opening on January 11

Prosecution case January 12, 13, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22

Will take your word for it, must have got it wrong between working, this and home schooling- everything’s a blur.

 

[Cherwell]

Indeed but in that time we know he has has time to rape her - an act quite consistent with subtle asphyxiation.So whatever has happened there you have weigh the risks to him of leaving her lying there, alive or dead, raped with your DNA evidence which is already in a police database - or just throwing her into a river.
He's already been to that park. He's taken her back to that park. Why there? Even if there - why not in the car?

Have I missed something? Why would the police already have his DNA on file ?

 

[Corneileus]

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How much alcohol...and after 7 weeks in the river...thats going to be really hard to be accurate. it is possible that the decomposition would seriously affect the accuracy of the pathology findings? yes? no? Im not sure but, dead bodies are black and blown up like balloons after 11 days in a living room i know that. 7 weeks in the river...hmmm Must of been a lot of alcohol, all day maybe or all afternoon. I was wondering what her state of mind may have been, if it was just alcohol it must have been a substantial amount.

I might aswell mention the hypothermia - should then A and E at Hull Royal be full of females (due to the wearing very little clothing in very cold temps) every weekend wouldnt it - with hypothermia. Read the diagnosis for hypothermia. It would be more likely the alcohol (possibly other? aswell) affecting her judgement than hypothermia.
When did libby get the Hypothermia? It cant be guessed surely.

Adding to this and its not suggestions its questions and I dont feel any need to catch up..The specialist who talks about Libby surviving in the River and that she could of survived upto half an hour - yet she already had hypothermia. He suggested the water to be no more than 10 degrees. Im telling ya its Freezing cold in the summer. If she went in the river in a mess already, that time of night and time of year, the shock could of killed her in 30 seconds - and she wouldnt of drowned. That river is not 10 degrees in feburay no way.

 

[tigerowl]

I think they meant that as he had committed so many crimes previously and left his DNA at the scene the police would have it. Not that, at that stage, it was associated with him.

 

[stephaniejanes]

Have I missed something? Why would the police already have his DNA on file ?

For the earlier incidents. They wouldn't have had a name against the DNA but they would have linked all of the crimes.