UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #21

[Officer Dibble]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed> I'm not excusing his behaviour at all! I'm interested in his character and his non-standard way of being. These articles give good insight into character. Not excuses.

 

[JosieJo]

CPS have allowed the charge so I guess they think it not just possible but likely. They will have barristers that have prosecuted rapes

I think this may be why the prosecution have given various possibilities...leaving her anywhere in a vulnerable position where serious harm is likely...no definitive crime area given?

That makes me think ? Would the cups be aware of such detail of distances? Are they aware of the full case that the prosecution will put forward ? Or just a set of facts to support the crime?

 

[Dotta]

Did the witness who heard desperate screams and a suspect man running from the park call the police immediately or only after when it was reported the girl was missing?

 

[bos]

If the prosecution don’t present evidence in the initial part of the trial when they call their witnesses/statements etc, can they introduce it under cross examination?

The prosecution appeared to introduce PR parking across from a takeaway & starting his car when he spotted a lone female and the evidence that Libby’s knickers were in place when she was found was new to us too. Is that a normal occurrence or is it likely that that evidence was presented during the case for the prosecution & just not included in reports?

 

[Cherwell]

In 2 years nobody has mentioned that park was a dogging site till now

As I said earlier, I think this is just semantics. I suspect Corneileus just means general outdoor sexual activity.

 

[mrazda71]

If the prosecution don’t present evidence in the initial part of the trial when they call their witnesses/statements etc, can they introduce it under cross examination?

The prosecution appeared to introduce PR parking across from a takeaway & starting his car when he spotted a lone female and the evidence that Libby’s knickers were in place when she was found was new to us too. Is that a normal occurrence or is it likely that that evidence was presented during the case for the prosecution & just not included in reports?

This may well have been said in court but just not reported

 

[Cherwell]

If the prosecution don’t present evidence in the initial part of the trial when they call their witnesses/statements etc, can they introduce it under cross examination?

The prosecution appeared to introduce PR parking across from a takeaway & starting his car when he spotted a lone female and the evidence that Libby’s knickers were in place when she was found was new to us too. Is that a normal occurrence or is it likely that that evidence was presented during the case for the prosecution & just not included in reports?

The prosecution has to make all evidence available to the defence, they can't just spring new evidence on them in court. A lot of it will be "agreed" anyway. The defence will already know the condition of the body and what clothing was present, and they will be aware of all the CCTV footage.

 

[LucyRocket]

Does PR have ADHD?

 

[Newthoughts]

I think this may be why the prosecution have given various possibilities...leaving her anywhere in a vulnerable position where serious harm is likely...no definitive crime area given?

That makes me think ? Would the cups be aware of such detail of distances? Are they aware of the full case that the prosecution will put forward ? Or just a set of facts to support the crime?

I'd have thought so. Trials are very expensive. Just the cost of a defence and prosecution barrister for starters

 

[LucyRocket]

@mrazda71 can you ask the reporter to describe the drone footage?

 

[Skigh]

Does PR have ADHD?

Not that we know about or could possibly diagnose from what has been reported about him

 

[mrazda71]

@mrazda71 can you ask the reporter to describe the drone footage?

If you go on the hull news page and click on the reporters name it will give you their email address. Perhaps you could take this one? I don't want to seem like I'm bombarding her

 

[Newthoughts]

Just playing devils advocate-what if the screams weren’t Libby? That would give a better timescale of him killing her fairly early into those 7.5 mins, and then having the time to move her body.

Perhaps he’s said she was screaming as he drove off from her at Oak Red as he knew he couldn’t get away with saying he heard nothing, so to try and tally up with mr Alford saying the screams lasted for a few mins and that the Claremont witnesses are saying they heard them later than mr Alford? All just me musing.....

I do believe the rape/smothering could happen quickly, he may have already had an erection upon parking up and lasted merely seconds.

Also if he did have to run/move quickly, please don’t discount absolute pure adrenaline. I’ve needed this once during being mugged/attacked by a stranger and I swear to god I’ve never moved so quickly-it felt like I had wings. At the time I was utterly amazed, and even thinking now I simply cannot believe how quickly my body got me out of that situation and the people/buildings I dodged. It was superhuman, and I’m no runner
Him pumped up on adrenaline would I’m sure mean he was capable of great speed/lifting

Indeed and he is a butcher. The ones at the end of my road can regularly be seen lifting massive carcasses from the lorry into the back of the shop.

And I've seen my daughter's boyfriend grab her and run down a beach with her - without adrenaline

 

[Tortoise]

Just playing devils advocate-what if the screams weren’t Libby? That would give a better timescale of him killing her fairly early into those 7.5 mins, and then having the time to move her body.

Perhaps he’s said she was screaming as he drove off from her at Oak Red as he knew he couldn’t get away with saying he heard nothing, so to try and tally up with mr Alford saying the screams lasted for a few mins and that the Claremont witnesses are saying they heard them later than mr Alford? All just me musing.....

I do believe the rape/smothering could happen quickly, he may have already had an erection upon parking up and lasted merely seconds.

Also if he did have to run/move quickly, please don’t discount absolute pure adrenaline. I’ve needed this once during being mugged/attacked by a stranger and I swear to god I’ve never moved so quickly-it felt like I had wings. At the time I was utterly amazed, and even thinking now I simply cannot believe how quickly my body got me out of that situation and the people/buildings I dodged. It was superhuman, and I’m no runner
Him pumped up on adrenaline would I’m sure mean he was capable of great speed/lifting

I think adrenaline is more commonly linked with the fear response - fight/flight/fright.

Also, I think the effects of ejaculation would be to reduce energy temporarily.

Adrenaline - Wikipedia (see emotional response)

and not a scientifc article but - What Is the Connection between Semen and Energy?

 

[mrazda71]

I think adrenaline is more commonly linked with the fear response - fight/flight/fright.

Also, I think the effects of ejaculation would be to reduce energy temporarily.

Adrenaline - Wikipedia (see emotional response)

and not a scientifc article but - What Is the Connection between Semen and Energy?

Oooh that article (bottom) makes me very sure I'm never EVER drinking Chinese Lucozade!!

Most evidence is usually based on 'normal' situations though I'd imagine, not under conditions of rape so difficult to gauge.

Regarding the fight or flight - he would certainly have been frightened he was about to get caught because someone would've heard her screams... and thinking about it ... there's adrenaline sports etc too

 

[Newthoughts]

I think adrenaline is more commonly linked with the fear response - fight/flight/fright.

Also, I think the effects of ejaculation would be to reduce energy temporarily.

Adrenaline - Wikipedia (see emotional response)

and not a scientifc article but - What Is the Connection between Semen and Energy?

He's a little bit out of the ordinary in that respect. Get the impression he doesn't waste time and recovers quickly.

 

[Challwood]

Does PR have ADHD?

I think the queries about possibility of ADHD are just a group members personal ideas to help try to understand PR’s sexually deviant behaviour rather than an official diagnosis. However, I think he would have been psychologically evaluated after his many previous sexual offences came to light and any diagnosis made then would surely also be disclosed during this trial.

 

[Newthoughts]

I think the queries about possibility of ADHD are just a group members personal ideas to help try to understand PR’s sexually deviant behaviour rather than an official diagnosis. However, I think he would have been psychologically evaluated after his many previous sexual offences came to light and any diagnosis made then would surely also be disclosed during this trial.

Would they disclose them at trial or sentencing? Trial would be good to see what experts think.

I'm also intrigued but personal opinion is veering towards psychopathic tendencies.

 

[porkypies]

BBM if she was unconscious and put in the river, I think it would be unrealistic to think she would not sink under the surface and die rather than try and get out.

Put in the river face down, in mud/reeds and water, partly submerged, very close to the bank out of obvious view, she was wearing black, the river-level rising, and the screaming stopped at that point.

 

[mrazda71]

I'm not personally convinced on ADHD or any other specific diagnosis but, I think if he'd been given one I would put money on him using it in court as an excuse for his crimes.